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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27724381 -

It appears Crimea is the last remaining sticking point in the negotiations.  It appears the US doesn't want to let it dreams of controlling Crimea go, as it invested too much effort and money trying to take control.

So we're encouraging Ukraine to keep fighting and we're sending them more weapons.  Very sad.

Crimea has been Russian since 2014, and pretty much everyone in Crimea wants to keep it that way.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27724388 -

Imagine jumping through elaborate hoops to justify the invasion and annexation of sovereign territory that indisputably happened and has been publicly admitted to by Mr. Putin himself while simultaneously decrying a coup allegedly orchestrated by NATO and carried out by Ukrainians.

Imagine believing in the legitimacy of a referendum carried out under occupation by a foreign military the results of which just happen to coincide with the interests of the occupying force and are outlandishly near-unanimous.

Imagine being upset about censorship and limits to speech but also cheerleading censorship and limits to speech.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27724391 -

Here's someone new whose videos really impressed me a lot lately - Jackson Hinkle on The Dive:

You don't see Jackson comment too much in this particular video, as he lets Col Macgregor do most of the talking, but I definitely recommend all of his videos on the conflict.  Here is a discussion about Bucha:



--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27724394 -

So strange that Ukraine doesn't want to accept the invasion and annexation of its territories. I can't think of any historical examples of nations continuing defensive wars against invaders. So unreasonable, these Ukrainian Nazis...

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #27724399 -

ballsalsa said:
Imagine jumping through elaborate hoops to justify the invasion and annexation of sovereign territory that indisputably happened and has been publicly admitted to by Mr. Putin himself while simultaneously decrying a coup allegedly orchestrated by NATO and carried out by Ukrainians.


So you're of the opinion that if Communist China did a coup in the US, all of the States are obligated to obey the new leader?  Because that's essentially what you're arguing.

ballsalsa said:
Imagine being upset about censorship and limits to speech but also cheerleading censorship and limits to speech.


Why can't you be more honest about my opinion?  I'm opposed to censorship of news, and opposed to censorship of intentionally fake news.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #27724401 -

ballsalsa said:
So strange that Ukraine doesn't want to accept the invasion and annexation of its territories.


I don't think it's strange at all.  I'm providing context.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27724409 -

Evan Hill from the New York Times posted a video that the NYT verified showing Ukranian soldiers executing Russian soldiers wearing white arm bands, hands tied behind their backs, same as the civilians in Bucha 7 miles away. Coincidence?

Let me know if the Telegram video link works. Warning it's grisly.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/04/06/world/ukraine-russia-war-news/russia-pows-ukraine-executed

https://twitter.com/evanhill/status/1511761682292371461

https://t.me/voenacher/14106

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27724415 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
ballsalsa said:
Imagine jumping through elaborate hoops to justify the invasion and annexation of sovereign territory that indisputably happened and has been publicly admitted to by Mr. Putin himself while simultaneously decrying a coup allegedly orchestrated by NATO and carried out by Ukrainians.


So you're of the opinion that if Communist China did a coup in the US, all of the States are obligated to obey the new leader?  Because that's essentially what you're arguing.


Doesn't a coup involve violence? I think meddling is the more appropriate term for what the US did. While what happened in the Donbas region was a coup. There was a violent overthrow of the government. And Russia did have a significant role in that.

2 wrongs don't make a right. But at least the US didn't resort to violence. Not that this makes for a moral victory in any way. But I do think Putin has demonstrated poor diplomatic skills and a propensity to resort to aggression, and that really should not be justified. Unless that's the role model you seek in conflict.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 4
    #27724420 -

You mean if U.S. partisans carried out a coup that China supported?
I would expect a war but that war wouldn't justify the annexation of the east coast by the UK.  Of course, you know my position because it's as transparent as your own.  If anyone wants to have a revolution, more power to them but I'm not gonna sit here like some people and pretend that meddling world powers are just being nice by intervening militarily. If the sentiment in the separatist regions is as monolithic as you say, they don't need Russian intervention because they're capable of being ungovernable. It simply requires too many resources to control an area in which 95% of the populace doesn't want you over the long term.  Putin isn't dumb, therefore he knows all this so why the invasions and occupations? Just charity? He's a real nice guy? What does Russia get from the deal? You're very good at identifying shady shit the US does to advance its interests. Why is it so hard for you with Russia? Broaden your horizon and try applying those same critical thinking skills universally.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27724423 -

:thumbup:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27724424 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
and opposed to censorship of intentionally fake news.


Bullshit, you’ve been praising Russia for doing exactly that.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27724425 -

I just want to point out that I'm not doubting the existence of Ukrainian nazis. Political leadership in general trends toward nazi tendencies wherever you go. It's an unfortunate side effect of wanting to be in charge of authoritarian hierarchies but I'm not going to pretend that Russian nazis are better than Ukrainian nazis or American nazis

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #27724471 -

A few have gone all in on the Putin, Orban, Tucker Carlson, right wing autocracy (Florida and DeSantis getting in on it currently). When the west plays dirty games it is outrage, when the autocrats do it there is plenty of reason for them to act. This apparently includes censorship of whatever news that is displeasing. All autocrats love intentionally fake news, because they get to pick what is fake and what isn't.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

Edited by christopera (04/07/22 01:42 PM)

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Kwyjibo]
    #27724490 -

Kwyjibo said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
and opposed to censorship of intentionally fake news.


Bullshit, you’ve been praising Russia for doing exactly that.


Where?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27724499 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Kwyjibo said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
and opposed to censorship of intentionally fake news.


Bullshit, you’ve been praising Russia for doing exactly that.


Where?


Is that a serious question?

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27724520 -

Stable Genius said:
Evan Hill from the New York Times posted a video that the NYT verified showing Ukranian soldiers executing Russian soldiers wearing white arm bands, hands tied behind their backs, same as the civilians in Bucha 7 miles away. Coincidence?

Let me know if the Telegram video link works. Warning it's grisly.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/04/06/world/ukraine-russia-war-news/russia-pows-ukraine-executed

https://twitter.com/evanhill/status/1511761682292371461

https://t.me/voenacher/14106


If Russian troops don’t want to get executed they can stay home.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27724531 -

ballsalsa said:
You mean if U.S. partisans carried out a coup that China supported?


Ya, that's a good example.

ballsalsa said:
I would expect a war but that war wouldn't justify the annexation of the east coast by the UK.


You left out that the east coast overwhelmingly voted to become part of the UK. 

ballsalsa said:
I'm not gonna sit here like some people and pretend that meddling world powers are just being nice by intervening militarily. If the sentiment in the separatist regions is as monolithic as you say, they don't need Russian intervention because they're capable of being ungovernable. It simply requires too many resources to control an area in which 95% of the populace doesn't want you over the long term.  Putin isn't dumb, therefore he knows all this so why the invasions and occupations? Just charity? He's a real nice guy? What does Russia get from the deal? You're very good at identifying shady shit the US does to advance its interests. Why is it so hard for you with Russia? Broaden your horizon and try applying those same critical thinking skills universally.


Who's pretending world powers are being nice?  I'm explaining things that people keep leaving out.  Obviously, Russia was getting something out of Crimea by keeping their only warm water military port, which the US is determined to take from them.

But Russia's involvement in Crimea also gave the Crimeans protection from Ukrainians, which Donbas didn't get.  Almost no one died in Crimea, whereas thousands died in Donbas which wasn't part of Russia.  Why get upset when this is pointed out?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27724535 -

ballsalsa said:
I'm not going to pretend that Russian nazis are better than Ukrainian nazis or American nazis


But are you going to pretend that US and Russian nazis have as much influence in Government as Ukrainian Nazis?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Kwyjibo]
    #27724537 -

Kwyjibo said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Kwyjibo said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
and opposed to censorship of intentionally fake news.


Bullshit, you’ve been praising Russia for doing exactly that.


Where?


Is that a serious question?


Yes.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods] * 1
    #27724538 -

koods said:
If Russian troops don’t want to get executed they can stay home.


At least you're finally admitting to Ukrainian atrocities.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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General Interest > Political Discussion
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