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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Kwyjibo]
    #27707562 -

Kwyjibo said:
Would you like examples from mainstream media?



No, because I just explained "there are obviously some sites out there that talk about how dumb Biden is, and even I do, and I suspect you might even find something on Fox News (which is a mainstream site).  I thought it was evident when I said "nobody" I was being a bit hyperbolic."


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27707573 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Kwyjibo said:
Would you like examples from mainstream media?



No, because I just explained "there are obviously some sites out there that talk about how dumb Biden is, and even I do, and I suspect you might even find something on Fox News (which is a mainstream site).  I thought it was evident when I said "nobody" I was being a bit hyperbolic."



You made a big deal about me leaving that part out even though I provided a link to your original post along with the quote.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27707579 -

Lets move on, here you are reading minds again.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27705212#27705212
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Trump knows he's not qualified.  You seem to think Trump is trusting Kid Rock's advice over his experts. 



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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Kwyjibo]
    #27707611 -

You really have to be pretty ignorant to think Trump would takes Kid Rock's advice over his own experts.  I've been following Trump long enough to know that he's reasonably smart, even though I generally don't like his politics (he's conservative).

The mainstream media could paint anyone they want as dumb, and the dumb will believe it.  They trick people all the time.  I knew the Trump-Russia election collusion story was a hoax even before the election, to cover up Hillary's own election scandal.  The sheeple went along with it.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27707629 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
You really have to be pretty ignorant to think Trump would takes Kid Rock's advice over his own experts.  I've been following Trump long enough to know that he's reasonably smart, even though I generally don't like his politics (he's conservative).

The mainstream media could paint anyone they want as dumb, and the dumb will believe it.  They trick people all the time.  I knew the Trump-Russia election collusion story was a hoax even before the election, to cover up Hillary's own election scandal.  The sheeple went along with it.



Your opinion is not fact. Prove Trump wouldn't take Kid Rock's advice.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Kwyjibo] * 2
    #27707633 -

Kwyjibo said:
Your opinion is not fact. Prove Trump wouldn't take Kid Rock's advice.



Really?  That's a serious request???

It feels like I'm back in kindergarten again.  :cool:

But what else should I expect from someone who lets the mainstream media keep fooling them?  :stoned:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27707638 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Kwyjibo said:
Your opinion is not fact. Prove Trump wouldn't take Kid Rock's advice.



Really?  That's a serious request???

It feels like I'm back in kindergarten again.  :cool:

But what else should I expect from someone who lets the mainstream media keep fooling them?  :stoned:



Source or make believe. And what exactly has msm fooled me about?

Edited by Kwyjibo (03/25/22 01:14 AM)

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27707684 -

Stable Genius said:
I don't see any other way to stop this anytime soon Brian and honestly don't think the death is worth the fight.



Stable Genius said:
Kickle said:


And?

Stable Genius said:
He also said the Ukraine armed forces are bombing civilian areas, and that those attacks have increased even though there are not Russian military in those areas.




Again, and? 




And nothing, if you don't get it you don't get it. I'm not here to convince you or anyone else of anything. I'm sharing an opinion take it or leave it.



Your opinion is vile. You are siding with a monster.

You used to be normal, then you started talking about cia coups in Australia and now you’re siding with fascists. Another weak minded person lost to YouTube propaganda

Edited by koods (03/25/22 02:19 AM)

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods] * 4
    #27707728 -

The first casualty of war is the truth... Ukraine has been in a civil war since we backed a coup in 2014. They've been bombing their own citizens for years. The Ukrainian military dropped a cluster bomb in the center of Donetsk a few days back, killing a bunch of their own citizens... as for the neo-nazis, US media and even the BBC and Time Magaizine have been reporting on it since the coup. It is not some new conspiracy theory. Now they'll refer to them as "far-right"... the same people that told us for the past 7 years that the far-right are neo-nazis have since done a 180° turn and are now saying they stand with the far-right... wtf??? Also, the democrats stopped funding and arming the Azov Battalion in 2017 specifically because of their far-right extremist views and war crimes. Trump started arming them and was impeached when he held up the weapons and money... and now that the democrats are in power we are being told we MUST support the far-right Ukrainian military... both parties have zero morals and zero consistency, they'll do anything to suit their narrative. Top lawmakers from both parties also dumped a bunch of money into stocks of weapons manufacturers oil companies BEFORE sending billions of dollars of weapons to Ukraine and it just so happens that they're profiting heavily from this invasion. Ukraine is basically US politician's personal playground for corrupt deals... but hey, what do Joe Biden, John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, and Mitt Romney all have in common? They all had sons that sat on the boards of Ukranian energy companies after 2014, and all got paid $50,000-$150,000/month to know absolutely nothing about energy!


--------------------

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods] * 1
    #27707732 -

And your Twitter post's cheering for dead Russian's are ghoulish. You're an intelligent person why are you being sucked into this stupid war mentality?

The CIA story is old news, it's well documented and is historically factual, but you haven't heard about it so you dismiss it as propaganda. Is this a Washington thing that people do when they don't understand something?

I get schooled here all the time, it doesn't worry me, it's your turn for a change.

I'll paraphrase bits that are important but I suggest reading the entire article by John Pilger. You'd know Pilger, he's often seen supporting Julian Assange.

Gough Whitlam was by far the best politician this country has ever seen(yes he made some blunders but that's another story).
He promised to withdraw Australian troops from Vietnam and BOOM, 7 days after being elected he withdrew the remaining 'military advisers' from Vietnam.

The U.S. government labelled Whitlam 'as dangerous as the North Vietnamese'.

Whitlam was sacked by the drunken monarchist and CIA puppet, Governor General Sir John Kerr.

Quote:
During the Whitlam years, 1972-75, Australia briefly achieved independence and became intolerably progressive. Politically, it was an astonishing period. An American commentator wrote that no country had ‘reversed its posture in international affairs so totally without going through a domestic revolution’.



Quote:
The last Australian troops were ordered home from their mercenary service to the American assault on Vietnam. Whitlam's ministers publicly condemned U.S. barbarities as “mass murder” and the crimes of “maniacs”. The Nixon administration was corrupt, said Deputy Prime Minister Jim Cairns and called for a boycott of American trade. In response, Australian dockers refused to unload American ships.

Whitlam moved Australia towards the Non-Aligned Movement and called for a Zone of Peace in the Indian ocean, which the U.S. and Britain opposed. He demanded France cease its nuclear testing in the Pacific. In the U.N., Australia spoke up for the Palestinians.
Refugees fleeing the CIA-engineered coup in Chile were welcomed into Australia — an irony I know that Whitlam later savoured.




Quote:
U.S. diplomatic cables published in 2013 by WikiLeaks disclose the names of leading figures in both main parties, including a future prime minister and foreign minister, as Washington's informants during the Whitlam years.

Gough Whitlam knew the risk he was taking. The day after his election, he ordered that his staff should no longer be “vetted or harassed” by the Australian security organisation, ASIO, which was then, as now, tied to Anglo-American intelligence.



Quote:
Alarm in Washington rose to fury when, in the early hours of 16 March 1973, Whitlam's attorney-general, Lionel Murphy, led a posse of federal police in a raid on the Melbourne offices of ASIO. Since its inception in 1949, ASIO had become as powerful in Australia as the CIA in Washington. A leaked file on Deputy Prime Minister Jim Cairns described him as a dangerous figure who would bring about ‘the destruction of the democratic system of government’.

ASIO's real power derived from the UKUSA Treaty, with its secret pact of loyalty to foreign intelligence organisations — notably the CIA and MI6. This was demonstrated dramatically when the (now defunct) National Times published extracts from tens of thousands of classified documents under the headline, ‘How ASIO Betrayed Australia to the Americans’.



Quote:
Australia is home to some of the most important spy bases in the world. Whitlam demanded to know the CIA's role and if and why the CIA was running the “joint facility” at Pine Gap near Alice Springs. As documents leaked by Edward Snowden revealed in 2013, Pine Gap allows the U.S. to spy on everyone.

“Try to screw us or bounce us,” Whitlam warned U.S. ambassador Walter Rice, “[and Pine Gap] will become a matter of contention”.

Victor Marchetti, the CIA officer who had helped set up Pine Gap, later told me:

“This threat to close Pine Gap caused apoplexy in the White House... a kind of Chile [coup] was set in motion.”

Pine Gap's top-secret messages were decoded by a CIA contractor, TRW. One of the decoders was Christopher Boyce, a young man troubled by the “deception and betrayal of an ally” he witnessed. Boyce revealed that the CIA had infiltrated the Australian political and trade union elite and was spying on phone calls and Telex messages.



Quote:
Kerr was not only the Queen's man and a passionate monarchist, he had long-standing ties to Anglo-American intelligence.
Kerr was also funded by the Asia Foundation, exposed in Congress as a conduit for CIA influence and money.



Quote:
The Americans worked closely with the British. In 1975, Whitlam discovered that MI6 was operating against his government. “The Brits were actually decoding secret messages coming into my foreign affairs office,” he said later.
One of his ministers, Clyde Cameron, told me:

“We knew MI6 was bugging Cabinet meetings for the Americans.”

Senior CIA officers later revealed that the “Whitlam problem” had been discussed “with urgency” by the CIA's director, William Colby and the head of MI6, Sir Maurice Oldfield.

A deputy director of the CIA said:

“Kerr did what he was told to do.”



Quote:
On 10 November 1975, Whitlam was shown a top-secret telex message sourced to Theodore Shackley, the notorious head of the CIA's East Asia Division, who had helped run the coup against Salvador Allende in Chile two years earlier. Shackley's message was read to Whitlam. It said that the prime minister of Australia was a security risk in his own country. Brian Toohey, editor of the National Times, disclosed that it carried the authority of Henry Kissinger, destroyer of Chile and Cambodia.

Having removed the heads of both Australian intelligence agencies, ASIO and ASIS, Whitlam was now moving against the CIA. He called for a list of all “declared” CIA officers in Australia.



Quote:
The day before the Shackley cable arrived on 10 November 1975, Sir John Kerr visited the headquarters of the Defence Signals Directorate, Australia's NSA, where he was secretly briefed on the “security crisis”. It was during that weekend, according to a CIA source, that the CIA's “demands” were passed to Kerr via the British.

On 11 November 1975 – the day Whitlam was to inform parliament about the secret CIA presence in Australia – he was summoned by Kerr. Invoking archaic vice-regal “reserve powers” invested in him by the British monarch, Kerr sacked the democratically elected prime minister.

The “Whitlam problem” was solved.




All verifiable if you want to follow the links.

I'm happy to still be friends but don't ever fucking call me a snivelling little appeaser again and expect to get away with it.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Mr.Giggles] * 1
    #27707734 -

Mr.Giggles said:
The first casualty of war is the truth... Ukraine has been in a civil war since we backed a coup in 2014. They've been bombing their own citizens for years. The Ukrainian military dropped a cluster bomb in the center of Donetsk a few days back, killing a bunch of their own citizens... as for the neo-nazis, US media and even the BBC and Time Magaizine have been reporting on it since the coup. It is not some new conspiracy theory. Now they'll refer to them as "far-right"... the same people that told us for the past 7 years that the far-right are neo-nazis have since done a 180° turn and are now saying they stand with the far-right... wtf??? Also, the democrats stopped funding and arming the Azov Battalion in 2017 specifically because of their far-right extremist views and war crimes. Trump started arming them and was impeached when he held up the weapons and money... and now that the democrats are in power we are being told we MUST support the far-right Ukrainian military... both parties have zero morals and zero consistency, they'll do anything to suit their narrative. Top lawmakers from both parties also dumped a bunch of money into stocks of weapons manufacturers oil companies BEFORE sending billions of dollars of weapons to Ukraine and it just so happens that they're profiting heavily from this invasion. Ukraine is basically US politician's personal playground for corrupt deals... but hey, what do Joe Biden, John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, and Mitt Romney all have in common? They all had sons that sat on the boards of Ukranian energy companies after 2014, and all got paid $50,000-$150,000/month to know absolutely nothing about energy!



:nowaydude:

:thumbup:

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #27707736 -


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27707751 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Granted, people should hear BOTH sides of the story, watch the video evidence, and reach their own conclusions, but Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, and all the mega-corps are now censoring opposing views because it would put too many people on Russia's side.  Even the celebrations in Donbas when Russia recognized their independence have been censored.

I warned about this censorship before, but was told that nearly monopolistic corporations that control 80 % of the media are private and should not only be allowed to censor everything they want, but they should have the freedom to tell whatever lies they want as well.

Tucker Carlson (who clearly HATES Russia) is being accused as being a Putin puppet and asked to resign or go to jail for telling his listeners there may be another side to the story.  I wonder how much longer until Fox finds a reason to fire him?

We now live in a fascist world, controlled by US oligarchs.



When Trump was stirring everyone up on Twitter I remember saying something like "Twitter has every right to allow or censor what's being said on their website"... that statement was clearly short sighted, doh!

Falcon gets another one right :thumbup:

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #27707761 -



--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: budmanman]
    #27707846 -

Quote:
And your Twitter post's cheering for dead Russian's are ghoulish. You're an intelligent person why are you being sucked into this stupid war mentality?




 
You should probably consider getting used to it .
    It blows my mind that's a problem for you but what Russia is doing isn't . There's a thing called sideways targeting , it's something Russia will do to keep anyone else from becoming a global superpower after nuclear war .
    They will nuke you , just for the fuck of it . That's  how Putin fells about you .  Your supporting a man who will destroy your country  and kill everyone you know out of petty spite .


--------------------


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27707854 -

Stable Genius said:
No I seriously don't think Poland is next. As for Putin's ambitions I think he got them mixed up with his capabilities. What a mess.

I didn't quite get The Ecstatic's point when this started, I'm more inclined to agree with it now.

Hey man I'm no expert, I'm just sick to death of these never ending proxy wars :shrug:



I don't think he would invade Poland either. If he was going to make the super risky move to hit a NATO country, it would be a little Baltic state, but I don't think he would do that unless he's lost his mind.

I read this article by a historian, I'll try to find it. He said this is really about China. The hegemon (I never saw that form of the word before) has always controlled Eurasia. The first time China and Russia (USSR) got together, China was the supplicant, which agreed to back the North Koreans, at great cost to China. He said this time, Russia is doing China's bidding to displace the U.S.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27707902 -

Stable Genius said:
I don't see any other way to stop this anytime soon Brian and honestly don't think the death is worth the fight.



The thing is the Ukrainians, Ok I'll call the pro-Ukrainians and leave that issue aside, think it is worth the fight, and think they can win, so they want keep fighting. Ultimately they will talk and the negotiations between the sides will be dependent on how the war went. If the Ukrainians are desperate Zelensky will make concessions. If they aren't they wont.

I can't get reliable news on what actually happening. I read stories that say they have pushed them back from Kiev twice as far as were a couple weeks ago. Maybe my news is coming from algorithms giving me what I want to hear. So I probe furthur and find stories where the Russians are advancing closer. Maybe those stories are for Chopstick's algorithms. IDK. But if the Ukrainians remain defiant Russia will have to take the cities and hold them, which isn't easy.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #27707916 -

Stable Genius said:
JOHN PILGER: The forgotten coup against 'the most loyal ally'

Whoopsie, forgot the link  :beer:



Yes America screwed with Australia's political system when I was in high school, which deserves criticism, particularly from Australians.
But I'm medicare eligible in two months, so only those most directly affected will care about something that long ago. I had a college friend who became a Navy pilot in the middle 80's. He said American Navy boys were still popular in Australia going back to the war with Japan. I knew Serbians who said they had previously been the victims of atrocities. But the atrocities they committed were recent.

Offenses from the past fade with time, except to those most affected,


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #27707937 -

Australia has deep historical and cultural ties to the US. There's something of a shared history there. Trying to drive a wedge between that is a doomed effort, there's a reason they're a member of five eyes. Look at who the five eyes are, what do these all have in common?

Not to mention that Australia shares many of the same political interests and concerns as the US, even at a low level.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: nooneman] * 1
    #27707955 -

In some more positive news, it seems that Marina Ovsyannikova (who famously made a protest against the war on Russian TV) will only receive a fine rather than criminal charges. I know it would be better if she wasn't being punished at all, but it's still nice to see some basic civility like that. Makes me oddly optimistic.

On another positive front, Russia has been signaling that they seem willing to live with the sanctions and aren't phased by them. This is positive because it means they're not looking to go to war over them, which is nice. I'd prefer not to get into a nuclear war.

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