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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods]
    #27548401 -

Quote:
because covid will never go away.



This was never the goal. There has been one disease eliminated from the population, smallpox and that happened because people were literally strapped down in some cases and vaccinated.

You’re all a bunch of sociopaths. This antivaxx bullshit is killing thousands of people a week. You don’t care. All you care about is yourselves. You people are fucking sick in the head.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: trees] * 3
    #27548403 -

trees said:
Sounds like bullshit. The only kids to die of it had life threatening pre existing diseases


You’re an idiot


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods] * 2
    #27548404 -

:yeahthatsfunny:


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Trees is dead, this is his mum posting



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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: trees] * 1
    #27548423 -

koods has evidence to back all that up, even the insults. All you've got are delusions and lies, trees. I've gotta believe you mean it though because it's too weak to be trolling.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Mr.GuessWork] * 1
    #27548460 -



Non-adult Covid fatalities can be counted on one hand here.

What the hell is going on in the US?


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Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Mr.GuessWork] * 3
    #27548500 -

Mr.GuessWork said:
This is one of those times when you have to act and think at almost the same time, as opposed to stopping and thinking, which is more in line with deep philosophical thought. The need to act promptly limits some options in the decision making process, and that introduces some necessary risk taking that may seem strange and uncomfortable, but it makes sense to people who were familiar with it, and have had the time to properly think about it in deep ways. Those are the guys in charge behind the scenes on vaccination stuff. Any type of developed thought requires trust in other peoples ideas and study, and right now, the people who are developing vaccines and studying public health are the ones who have the right background to do the type of thinking we need. Deep philosophy for the rest of us is a luxury if we take the advice, and it's a liability if we don't.

A good start for the basis of what makes the decision good or bad, at least in my reasoning, is an evaluation of the costs, benefits, and outcomes of that decision. Good decisions ideally have low costs with high benefits and/or good outcomes, and bad decisions have high costs and low benefits and/or bad outcomes. What's making me judge your decision as bad is that you aren't addressing it's costs, benefits, and outcomes in any reasonable way, particularly when those costs/benefits/outcomes are clear and well explained (that's not a judgement on you per se, but on your choice and the circumstances surrounding it, since I know you can appreciate the difference). Your assessment of the quality of your decision seems detached from it's impact on reality. I'm not sure about your work scenario. You may work entirely from home, and then I can understand why they broke rules for you since it's a low risk decision for them, but if you're stuck in an office with other people, then your decision has a large potential to harm you and other people, and the evidence clearly demonstrates that. If you're being reasonable, then you have to accept that as a fact, and if you're being respectful of other people, then you have to address the harm you're causing, because you have an easy and low-cost/high-benefit way to prevent the harm and you're choosing not to do it, and as far as I can tell, you have offered no good reasoning for your refusal. That's what is not worthy of respect, and it's not worthy of respect because it's a disrespectful and harmful thing to do. If you're going to put other people in harms way, then you at least owe them a decent explanation.


I must say, to start, that I do appreciate the effort in your well thought and written out posts. I've always enjoyed your input and I'm glad that you've been more active in the community since all this kicked off.

Regarding the work situation; yes, I do work primarily from home. I will need to attend an office a few days a week starting around spring, at which point I will surely have to succumb to additional testing/mask wearing as compared to the vaxxed people. No problem by me at all, happy to oblige.

I must say though, that surely - to all the vaxxed people I shall encounter there, surely I don't pose any great risk, being unvaxxed, and surely any unvaxxed people there will be - like myself - willing to take the risk that comes with attending a public place. Or am I missing something?

I hear all this rhetoric about how, by being unvaxxed, one is a 'menace to society' (or words to that effect), but personally, I just can't see it. To me it just sounds like the usual shit one gets for not doing what everyone else does:

'Why aren't you married? You should get a girlfriend and settle down.'

'Why don't you have kids? What, you want a vasectomy? You really shouldn't do that, think about it, you're gonna want kids one day.'

'Why wouldn't you get a mortgage? It's the only sensible thing to do.'

'Why do you still dress like you're in the nineties, current fashion is so much better.'

'What? You don't watch television? You really should, there's some great shows out there.'

Etc. Etc. Etc.

It's a sociological phenomenon I have observed over and over and over again in my life. If everyone else is doing it, then the vast majority of the crowd will A) Try and convince you to do what they're doing or B) Try and shame you for not doing what everyone else is doing.

When it comes to all the arguments I've seen about causing harm to others, I really, really, really just don't buy it. I don't see it, I don't feel it. It was never like this about the flu, so why all the hysteria all of a sudden? The only reason I can see is humans being humans; most follow the crowd, and the few outliers that choose not to are shunned and insulted for not doing so.

Where did personal/bodily autonomy go? For all those that have argued for years to have free choice of what they put into their bodies, why would they not argue still for free choice as to what they do NOT put into their bodies?

I've been treated like a criminal for so many years for the former, and now I'm practically a criminal - in the eyes of many, it seems - for the latter.

I just don't accept it. I don't accept that those that choose not to vax, as much as koods type would have it, are scum.

We should all have freedom, and for those that live in fear, I say: 'don't go outside then'.

Yet TPTB seem to be enforcing it the other way, and I do not agree.



I stand by my words on this, and cannot see good reason from the opposing side not to.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #27548506 -

when are you getting deported to Canada?

Edited by Crazy_Horse (11/18/21 06:12 PM)

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #27548531 -

And yet. Reading through all this verbosity, I'll leave it to others to pick you up on the specific nonsense you spout, I still feel you are talking nothing but total and utter bull shit. :shrug:


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whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows...
it's a bugger to cycle in.

even though I'm feeling good
Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Crazy_Horse] * 1
    #27548538 -

Quote:
stand by my words on this, and cannot see good reason from the opposing side not to.



How the fuck are you even allowed to stay here on your visa if you’re not vaxxed. You should go back to your home country and burden their healthcare system not ours.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: trees]
    #27548541 -

trees said:
Sounds like bullshit. The only kids to die of it had life threatening pre existing diseases


Nevermind the kids left destitute when some idiot 'did their research' parent dies because they were too stupid to take advice from people that knew shit rather than some dumb cunt you-chubber. :nonono:


--------------------
whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows...
it's a bugger to cycle in.

even though I'm feeling good
Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: deucedbi9]
    #27548552 -

Quote:
From April 1, 2020 through June 30, 2021, data suggest that more than 140,000 children under age 18 in the United States lost a parent, custodial grandparent, or grandparent caregiver who provided the child’s home and basic needs, including love, security, and daily care.


https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p1007-covid-19-orphaned-children.html

The Staggering Number of Kids Who Have Lost a Parent to COVID-19


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods]
    #27548604 -

koods said:
Quote:
stand by my words on this, and cannot see good reason from the opposing side not to.



How the fuck are you even allowed to stay here on your visa if you’re not vaxxed. You should go back to your home country and burden their healthcare system not ours.


Because the world isn't 100% full of militant cunts, perhaps?

Balance man, balance. Try it sometime.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 2
    #27548617 -

What a stupid flex. You’re a grown adult acting like a child.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods]
    #27548660 -

I saw a New York City commercial tonight pushing for the vaxseen while also pushing popcorn at the same time.


--------------------

Edited by SprewellSleeve (11/18/21 08:03 PM)

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods]
    #27548696 -

Auto-Summary
This forum post argues against the refusal of vaccination, emphasizing the real-world consequences of such a decision. The author highlights how choosing not to get vaccinated puts coworkers at risk of serious harm or preventable suffering, directly contradicting the notion of protecting one's interests without considering others. They draw a clear distinction between social pressures, like drug use, and the choice to avoid vaccination, which endangers others without regard for their circumstances. The post also delves into the emotional impact of witnessing preventable suffering, drawing on personal experiences to underscore the importance of empathy and action. By comparing the refusal to get vaccinated to corporate exploitation, the author argues that such a choice is not merely irresponsible but morally reprehensible. The technical aspect of mask usage is briefly addressed, reinforcing the recommendation for vaccination as the primary protective measure. Overall, the post urges reflection on the broader impact of vaccination refusal and encourages readers to consider the suffering it causes, urging them to make a more compassionate and informed decision.

@JSB

I do think you're missing part of the arguement in your thinking, and it's a common thing to miss, partly because you don't get to see the parts of the suffering that make the more emotional aspects of the experience real.

first though I'm going to address some parts of the examples you listed that don't match well to the vaccination arguement. The differences between the social pressures are important to understand, particularly since most of us have banded together here out of stand against a sort of oppressive social pressure against drug use and other victimless lifestyle choices. The difference between our cultural choices, along with all the examples you've posted, and the choice to avoid vaccination, is that refusing vaccination is a choice that clearly puts other people's health and livelihood at risk without regard for them or their concerns or circumstances. People are likely to be victimized as a result of your refusal whether you're aware of their suffering or not. All the examples of social pressure that you mentioned affect only you primarily, though you may have to ask for some help from friends if you make a choice that puts you in a bad spot. If you refuse vaccination, you're directly and unnecessarily putting the people you work with at serious risk of dying or living out the rest of their lives in a nursing home or some lessor form of preventable suffering. Your refusal to protect them at no clear cost/threat to yourself is a very real threat to their freedom and wellbeing, and you need to justify your choice to them if you truly think you're being fair to them or purely minding your own business in a responsible manner. Think about how you feel when society fucks you over, and realize that you're doing that to other people when you refuse to get vaccinated. Your coworkers were probably told they'd be working with people that had been vaccinated so they'd feel safe at the office, and you're basically helping some corporate jackasses lie to them, exploit them, and put their lives at risk, all for a few measly bucks. That's not entirely on you, and I already think your new boss is a huge piece of shit, but you're playing a part in that abuse without accounting for the significance of your actions while you could easily protect your coworkers by getting vaccinated.

On the emotional note, I'm not sure how many people you've watched suffer and die from preventable causes, but I've seen more than a few myself. One time I stood around and told jokes outside a car where a kid blew his brains out while we waited for a tow truck. I didn't do it because I thought it was funny or because I'm cruel. I did it because I needed to be able to keep my shit together while I did my job and humor was what worked at the time. That suicide was probably preventable, and I'd prefer it if I could have been there in time when it came in as a psychiatric emergency earlier that day, but all I could do was pick up the bigger pieces of the kid's skull and try not to get little chunks of brain and blood stuck to my cloths while I helped get his body out of the car and put it in a bag. That was a bad outcome, but I did what I could to avoid it and deal with it, and I learned from the experience. I honestly can't remember lots of the more normal experiences like that one outside of my dreams or outsides the times when I suddenly remember something in vivid detail and get pissed off about it. That's the price you pay for getting the experience you need to have real compassion and understanding for this kind of normalized preventable suffering. Living with it sucks a little less than letting happen over and over again without learning, understanding, or caring. You have to suffer a bit to learn and figure out how to stop bad things from happening. If you don't learn from these kind of mistakes then people are going to suffer in vain, and if you're an honest philosopher, then you have to live in that fucked up world knowing that you did nothing to make the world a better place when you could have done better. If you don't take meaningful action to prevent spread of this disease, which means getting vaccinated if you look at the science, then you're going to cause some real suffering for other people, and you'll never understand what you did, and you won't learn a damn thing from the suffering you cause. Instead you'll think that you did no harm and everything turned out fine, all because you don't get to see what happens when it ends badly. The media hides the graphic medical stuff from the public at least as well as they do with the killing and violence from war. I promise that watching someone slowly die over weeks on a ventilator is worse than putting some kid in bag after he splattered his brains all over the roof of his car over some girl. You're at least partly responsible for some of those deaths if you're not getting vaccinated, and you can choose to live with that honestly or dishonestly if you capable of reflecting on the reality around your choices. Look at how nurses like morrowasted post, and see if you can't feel the emotional heaviness there that you're missing when you think about this stuff. Weigh that against some of the weak arguments against vaccination and weak comparisons to it that you posted and try to figure out why those don't make any sense to people who see the real suffering without the bullshit and the rhetoric. You're missing something big if you truly think it's not worth getting vaccinated. I'd share it with you in a way that makes sense if I knew how to man, but you might have to settle for people telling you that they know you're in the wrong if you're refusing the vaccine without a truly compelling reason. At some level you have to trust in other people's experience and wisdom.

Also, on a more technical note, masks are a good idea, and I think we should all be wearing n95s for a while, but most people don't use them properly, and next to nobody gets fit tested or wears actual n95s or better, so it's not the best method for protection at this point. Anybody who relies on a mask for safety should absolutely be vaccinated as well. There's no question about that. The mask is the extra safety measure at this point, particular for public levels of exposure. We all get itchy noses and want to drink a coffee or eat from time to time, and all that counts as exposure.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Mr.GuessWork] * 4
    #27548808 -

Huge wall of text ony repating "youre a danger to others unless you get vaxed" in as many ways as you could think of to write as many words as possible

If you think its a good idea to wear masks now then you will be wearing a mask for the rest of your life, since covid wont ever go away


--------------------
Trees is dead, this is his mum posting



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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: trees]
    #27548843 -

Quote:
If you think its a good idea to wear masks now then you will be wearing a mask for the rest of your life, since covid wont ever go away


Why? The masks are to protect the unvaccinated. All this bullshit is to protect the unvaccinated. Vaccinated people don’t need to worry about getting covid. Two shots for long term protection against serious illness, boosters from time to time if you want to protect against infection. Infections are only dangerous for unvaccinated people, and people who don’t have a good adaptive immune response due to age or other deficiency. As soon as everyone’s vaccinated covid ceases to be a serious problem for society. All this freedom flexing over the vaccines is just fucking up the economy and dragging the pandemic out and getting a lot of people killed.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods] * 1
    #27548869 -

Quote:
koods said:As soon as everyone’s vaccinated covid ceases to be a serious problem for society.


What about the other serious problems that effect people's health? People are always looking for shortcuts, which is exactly what this needle is. It's not a miracle cure and no matter how much knowledge you have, how much you worked your ass off in studying this thing, it still hasn't been around long enough to prove how safe it is.


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Mr.GuessWork] * 2
    #27549150 -

Mr.GuessWork said:
@JSB

I do think you're missing part of the arguement in your thinking, and it's a common thing to miss, partly because you don't get to see the parts of the suffering that make the more emotional aspects of the experience real.


TBH mate, I couldn't read past this. Because now you're just insulting my intelligence. I don't know suffering? I don't know the 'emotional aspects' of it? Of life? Of sickness? Of death? Of illness and the impacts of societal norms upon our population? I don't know what you're trying to tell me I don't know, but much like the waitress that told me she had to remove my plate due to 'regulations' Saturday night (whom I subsequently told to 'Fuck Off' - she wasn't even my cool main waitress) I don't like or respect when someone tells me 'I don't know' life like they do. I'm not that stupid, and someone must think I'm as much as they are to buy into the shite they believe wholesale without thinking for myself.

I'm sorry I'm a child in your eyes, but freedom means more to me than anything in this world, and we've clearly got two VERY different ideas of what that is.

Let's just agree to disagree from this point forward.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #27549198 -

You don't have to worry about the admins mandating vaccination for moderators, in fact we'll see a lot more of you when you can't go anywhere anymore because you dont have the necessary papers.

Said in a kind way.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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