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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26856901 -

Quote:
I'm starting to see that your rhetoric is not just a gag or the result of sub-par understanding of events.



Astute observation.

Quote:
It's dangerous misinformation being disseminated with malicious intent.




Ha. Haha. HAHAH. I'm so incredibly amused right now. :lol:

You know... I must be doing something right when my opposition cannot rationally counter the argument and so they pull out the "evil" card instead. SPEAKING of Mormonism, this is exactly how it was in the church when I started pulling their curtain back and exposing the underbelly of their history. "I can see now you have malicious intent against the church."

Uh, sure. They can believe that. What I actually have malicious intent toward are lies and deception... so when I see it, don't matter where it is, I'm gonna expose it.

I get that it's much easier to gore the ox of everyone else's belief system about reality than it is your own, but your own worldview isn't any less subject to a good goring if it isn't grounded in reality.

So call me evil. I'm used to it. Historically, starting with Mormonism, I know your pattern all too well and you're only confirming I'm on the right track.


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Edited by Vahn421 (08/01/20 09:15 AM)

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Vahn421]
    #26856905 -

To be honest, I've never seen a group of debaters (with a few exceptions) so inept at debating the point and staying on topic. You guys LOVE talking about me. Lemme tell ya, I'm gonna fucking devour your insults like Pac Man devours power pellets. The choice is yours, mates, what to focus your attention on!



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Edited by Vahn421 (08/01/20 09:22 AM)

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26856912 -

Except that you yourself are spreading lies.

Lies about mail in voting, lies about the virus, etc.


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Vahn421]
    #26856916 -

The church (or most churches) generally can't prove any of their claims. When asked for proof, they deflect. If they do provide "proof" it's generally full of logical fallacies, based on bunk science, or just plain old confirmation bias.

Hmmmm.


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: natedawgnow] * 1
    #26856930 -

natedawgnow said:
Except that you yourself are spreading lies.

Lies about mail in voting, lies about the virus, etc.



We're here to DEBATE, are we not?

You don't debate by calling your opponent a liar, you show them how they are wrong.

I'm pretty sure I'm the only one that has conceded to ANY opposition since I've been here, and I've conceded on a few points multiple times, including the mail in ballot conversation. You can read the other thread closely if you care to see it.

The thing is, like a bunch of children I'm pretty sure some people have already made their mind up about me and no amount of making a case is going to convince them otherwise. It's too bad, too. I'm actually a very pleasant person to be around, but my guard is way up because this psuedo-intellectual forum has decided to focus on what they don't like about me more than my ideas. By all means, continue... you're just validating my position by doing so.


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Vahn421] * 3
    #26856931 -

There you go again, assuming that you have something useful to contribute

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: ballsalsa] * 3
    #26856934 -

I've never seen a more profound case of dunning-kruger effect.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26856938 -

ballsalsa said:
There you go again, assuming that you have something useful to contribute



There you go again, assuming anything you have to say that is a clever and indirect (see: unbannable) insult is going to have any affect on me other than motivating me to stay.

Bad ideas don't know how to challenge good ones. It's exactly why you're pulling the personality card on me. You're fresh outta gas.

It's like a kid who loses an argument and shouts, "Well you're just a dum dum head!" to the other kid.


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26856941 -

*effect


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26856953 -

Vahn421 said:
Quote:
I'm starting to see that your rhetoric is not just a gag or the result of sub-par understanding of events.



Astute observation.

Quote:
It's dangerous misinformation being disseminated with malicious intent.




Ha. Haha. HAHAH. I'm so incredibly amused right now. :lol:

You know... I must be doing something right when my opposition cannot rationally counter the argument and so they pull out the "evil" card instead. SPEAKING of Mormonism, this is exactly how it was in the church when I started pulling their curtain back and exposing the underbelly of their history. "I can see now you have malicious intent against the church."

Uh, sure. They can believe that. What I actually have malicious intent toward are lies and deception... so when I see it, don't matter where it is, I'm gonna expose it.

I get that it's much easier to gore the ox of everyone else's belief system about reality than it is your own, but your own worldview isn't any less subject to a good goring if it isn't grounded in reality.

So call me evil. I'm used to it. Historically, starting with Mormonism, I know your pattern all too well and you're only confirming I'm on the right track.



Vahn’s posts are highly enjoyable if you read them in Vizzini’s voice



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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: koods]
    #26856969 -

I can actually monologue that entire scene. I've seen in 100 times because that movie is the fucking greatest movie ever.

Also, in the original book, Vizzini was the smartest character by far, second to perhaps only the Prince. The man in black only beat him at the battle of wits by cheating and relying on his physical strength to save him.

Just sayin'!


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Vahn421]
    #26856979 -

Uh no Vizzini was outsmarted with the oldest trick in the book by a farm hand


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26856989 -

Wesley showed no mercy to vizzinni because the little man had no honor himself. (Wesley spared the other two because they first spared him to give him a chance at a "fair fight." which this little midget did not do.)

Wesley didn't feel obligated to play by the rules as they were laid out, and I wouldn't have either. But that doesn't mean he outsmarted vizzinni. He just outplayed him because he had more going for him than just wits.


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26856991 -

What makes you think I want you to go?  In all honesty, it is always a disappointment when a poster such as yourself melts too hard and catches a ban.  Since you brought up the topic of challenging bad ideas with good ones, I'll go ahead and post this short vid of Barry Schwartz talking about idea technology and the dangers inherent to shit ideology.  I've posted this several times over the years and I'm sure that almost nobody has taken the 20 min to watch so I don't expect you to be the exception but I'm putting it here anyway


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #26856998 -

I'll take the 20 mins and watch it momentarily if you'll owe me one and do the same when I choose the right video for the right moment.

I also want to add something I've said a few times already, but... stop being a dick to my character and watch me magically stay on topic and debate courteously with no grudges. Conversely, I'm gonna keep playing in the dirt if you all prefer the mud hole.


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Edited by Vahn421 (08/01/20 10:02 AM)

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26857033 -

I would love to see the OP redo the OP with a poll asking who they see winning between Trump and Biden. I think the poll should ask specifically who they think will win and not who they will vote for but who they think will win based on popularity. I just cannot imagine even the shroomery polls having results for anyone but Trump winning. I could be wrong. I also hope Trump does not win he is not my favorite by a long shot. But I totally see him dominating this shit.

His opponents need to up their campaign tours for sure. I know we are still months away but man Trump is looking 500% more assertive then his opposition


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: imachavel] * 1
    #26857084 -

The problem is that Trump lost the popular vote last time, and now everything is shitting the bed. The vote isn't for Biden, it's an anybody but Trump vote. So that's why even a candidate like Biden will beat Trump.


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #26857238 -

ballsalsa said:
What makes you think I want you to go?



I dunno, maybe saying in your previous post I had nothing useful to contribute. :lol:

Quote:
In all honesty, it is always a disappointment when a poster such as yourself melts too hard and catches a ban.  Since you brought up the topic of challenging bad ideas with good ones, I'll go ahead and post this short vid of Barry Schwartz talking about idea technology and the dangers inherent to shit ideology.  I've posted this several times over the years and I'm sure that almost nobody has taken the 20 min to watch so I don't expect you to be the exception but I'm putting it here anyway





That was a good video and I agreed with basically everything he said.

There's some irony in saying something may not be human nature but instead is bad ideology that has influenced that human... it's inadvertently asserting that it IS indeed human nature to be easily influenced by ideas!

Another way of saying it would be something like... it is human nature to be overly susceptible to the influences around us even when they aren't truthful.

So either it is in our nature to be inherently good or evil, or it is in our nature to be influenced to be good or evil. Either way, we have an exploitable nature once you know how the human species tick.

My take is it's a mix of both. "Nature vs Nurture" and all that Psychology 101 stuff.

If there was a larger point you wanted to make, I didn't catch it... unless you wanted to assert I have bad ideology. (Like near the beginning of the video when the guy asserts bad ideology lasts longer than bad science because it can't be dis-proven as easily.)


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Edited by Vahn421 (08/01/20 12:36 PM)

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Vahn421]
    #26857260 -

I belive it was in relation to the Unibomber and his anti-tech ideology. With the video above, Theodore's ideology and how it can foster permanence, rather than the impermanence of tech.


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“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Vahn421]
    #26857269 -

I hope you are right. Biden is no 60% more likely to win then Trump. Right now I cannot imagine Trump winning. Remember though Trump is a dirty dirty player and somehow has the charm to make his opponents seem insignificant and incompetent. A lot of what the election rides on now is how the rest of the year turns out. Economic recovery. Reopenings. Coronavirus numbers dropping significantly. A vaccine.

If I thought the election would happen at the end of the month of August I would see Trump losing big. But Trump plays the card up his sleeve like no one I have ever seen. He is a big schemer when it comes to looking bad now with a big surprise. He has done this most of his life. Hell I thought he would lose the 2016 election for sure. But sure enough just when his cards looked bad he pulled the ace out of his sleeve and blew everyone else off the table showing he had the best hand. He is really really really good at being a lousy person who anticipates others stupidity as a means to gain ahead for himself.

No one ever seems to see it coming. Articles like this seem to help clear it up for me:







https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/dont-count-trump-out-yet-heres-how-he-can-still-win-in-november-2020-06-30

"Opinion: Don’t count Trump out yet — here’s how he can still win in November
Published: July 4, 2020 at 10:01 a.m. ET
By Paul Brandus
Trump can hope for a cure, or hope the economy recovers, or he can just do what he does best: go dirty
President Donald Trump still has a prayer.
President Donald Trump still has a prayer. AFP via Getty Images
This election is over. Trump is so far behind, he’s such a buffoon, he doesn’t have a chance.

Sound familiar? It should, because that’s what most people were saying back in the summer of 2016. How’d that work out?

Now the New York/Washington/Left Coast elites are at it again. Stick a fork in the Donald, they cackle — he’s done!


Is it different this time? Or can Trump shock the world again?

There are tons of reasons why Trump should not win. He’s failed on most of his big promises. There’s no wall. The national debt, which he vowed to eliminate (through trade deals) has exploded. Meantime, Iran and North Korea are more dangerous than ever.

He’s the Mount Everest of dishonesty. Not only has he not drained Washington’s swamp as promised, he’s made it swampier than ever. Numerous associates have been indicted, convicted, pled guilty, tossed in the can, abused the public trust, and more. Trump said he only hires “the very best,” and this is what we get?

‘I really don’t care do U?’
But guess what? Millions of Americans don’t seem to care. They’ve always known that Trump was a stooge. Here are three takeaways from 2016 exit polls conducted by CNN:


• Just 1 in 3 thought Trump was honest and trustworthy

• Less than 2 in 5 had a favorable opinion of him

• Barely a third — 35% — said he had the right temperament for the job

And he still got 63 million votes! This says as much about the American electorate as it does about Trump.


Lots of Trumpers know the president’s a jerk. They know he’s rude, crude, and embarrasses himself on Twitter. And yet they say he gets stuff done. He got tax cuts, two Supreme Court justices, and (through June 1) nearly 200 of his appointees have been put on the federal bench. Trump could lose in November but his mark on American society will endure well into mid-century through these judges. Trump’s base loves him for these things, and most of them—but not all—will vote for him again.

Narrow path to re-election
As Trump and four other presidents have shown, you don’t have to win the popular vote to win the presidency. He won’t win it this year, either. The question: Can he win the Electoral College?

The president’s path has narrowed considerably.

According to the well-regarded Crystal Ball—put out by the University of Virginia’s Center for Politics—Joe Biden, soon to be coronated as the Democratic nominee, has 268 “safe, likely, or leaning” electoral votes, while Trump has 204. There are only four states, the Crystal Ball says, that remain true toss ups: Florida, North Carolina, Arizona and Wisconsin. Together, they have 65 electoral votes.

The current prediction for the 2020 presidential election from Larry Sabato's Crystal Ball shows Democrat Joe Biden with a big but not insurmountable lead over President Donald Trump.
The current prediction for the 2020 presidential election from Larry Sabato's Crystal Ball shows Democrat Joe Biden with a big but not insurmountable lead over President Donald Trump.Center for Politics

Biden only needs one of these, and leads in all four by an average of 3.8 points (median 5.1) But Trump needs them all, the poker equivalent of drawing an inside straight. Not impossible, but highly improbable. That would get him to 269, enough to win.


There is also the oddity of two states—Maine and Nebraska—which do not allocate their electoral votes in winner-take-all fashion. It’s too complicated to explain here, other than to say a single electoral vote in say, Maine, could tip the entire election.

Why can a candidate win with 269 and not 270? Because an Electoral College tie (extremely unlikely) would be decided by the incoming House of Representatives, with each state delegation getting one vote.

Right now, this favors Republicans. Even though they have fewer House seats overall, the GOP controls 26 state delegations to the Democrats’ 23 (Pennsylvania is evenly divided). So if it came down to a House vote, whichever party controlled the most state delegations in the new Congress would pick the president. The Democrats would have to wrest control of at least three more state delegations, and they could do just that.

Making all this even more bizarre: the Senate would pick the vice president. Right now the GOP controls the Senate. What if one party picked the president and another the vice president? It simply doesn’t get any stranger than this.

But again, this is all quite unlikely. Biden appears to be in the driver’s seat as we approach the four-month mark.

So what can Trump do to get there?

The economy, the virus, or?
To state the obvious: A coronavirus cure would help (not that he would have anything to do with it), as would clear evidence that the economy is on the mend. But first-quarter gross domestic product was -5.0%. That’s bad, but the second quarter—which (so far) saw the worst of the coronavirus—looks downright apocalyptic: perhaps -39.5%, according to an estimate issued last week by the Atlanta Federal Reserve.

The third quarter, which begins Wednesday, could be great—and the first reading on that could mean good news for Trump just days before the election. On the other hand, with the virus now ravaging big states like Texas and Florida, this is far from certain.

Trump can hope that voters don’t blame him for the economic shutdown. He’s blames the governors, which is largely true, but if that’s the case, then the president is throwing two swing-state Republicans under the bus: Florida’s Ron DeSantis and Arizona’s Doug Ducey.

The president could also try to convince voters that his tariffs and trade wars have been a good thing. But tariff is just another word for taxes on the end user, and there’s plenty of data that adds to the president’s vulnerability.

Go dirty
Trump also has another, often ignored disadvantage. Many of his 2016 voters weren’t so much voting for him as they were voting against Hillary Clinton. The percentage of Americans who have a “very negative” view of Biden is about 25%, whereas Clinton’s at this point in 2016 was about 42%. Trump has failed to paint “Sleepy Joe” as a monster the way he did “Crooked Hillary,” and I suspect he won’t be able to.

I think the best path for Trump, sadly, may be to do what he does best: go dirty. He has admitted that he can’t win with mail-in balloting, so what does Trump (who votes by mail himself) do? He claims it’s rife with fraud. This is a huge lie.

There have also been state-level efforts to purge voter rolls and reduce the number of polling places, measures that disproportionately hurt minority voters. Trump squawked that 2016 was rigged (until he won), and we’re beginning to hear similar talk again.

And even though Trump seems to think that the coronavirus has gone away, the fact is it could cause problems like understaffed polling places, leading to long lines and chaos."


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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