Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Political Discussion
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: < First | | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 |
Re: The popularity of Donald J Trump abroad [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26256681 -

Maybe you were somewhere else when the unmarked men with guns beat reporters and told ukrainian military personell to leave their base or else?

Crimea was invaded, no matter how positive the psyops went.

China is encroaching deep into the south china sea. 

There are border changes that occur.  No matter how small they happen.  For instance Chechnya is not a free nation.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The popularity of Donald J Trump abroad [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26256758 -

Morel Guy said:
Maybe you were somewhere else when the unmarked men with guns beat reporters and told ukrainian military personell to leave their base or else?


You're confirming an earlier point that Russian strength "was directed against Ukraine, not Crimea".


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The popularity of Donald J Trump abroad [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26256778 -

I disagree on that assessment.

Who controls Crimea? 

Russia

Did they use force or the threat of force to obtain it? 

Yes.

Whatever vote the people in Crimea may have had is irrelevant to the question of whether or not Russia aquired territory through force.

Whats your excuse for occupied Georgia?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The popularity of Donald J Trump abroad [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26256791 -

Thats a silly point.  If we were to go back to your Texas example, it would be like saying the patron state didn't use force against Texas in its annexation efforts, only the U.S.

Its nonsense since the 1 is part and parcel of the other

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The popularity of Donald J Trump abroad [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26256871 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Edit:  I say this based on debunking the claim that Crimea had to follow the constitution after it was invalidated by the coup.


This was not debunked. Your entire argument here was basically that two wrongs make a right.

ballsalsa said:
Whats your excuse for occupied Georgia?


Georgia has always been a part of Russia. They were never "occupied", except for a few skirmishes after one of the most horrific terrorist attacks carried out in the world to date, that happened to be committed by Georgian separatists on Russian soil.

---

Anyone else think donald declaring that the PKK is "worse than ISIS" is a bit like that one scene in 1984 where they switch enemies/allies mid-speech?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The popularity of Donald J Trump abroad [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26256909 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
ballsalsa said:
The UN exists in order that the strongest countries decide things.


I don't disagree.

But the answer to my earlier question "Outside of Israel, who has acquired territory by force since 1945?" appears to be that no one has, after the Crimea clarification above.  We can possibly say it was defended by force, but not taken by force.

Edit:  I say this based on debunking the claim that Crimea had to follow the constitution after it was invalidated by the coup.


Just because Russia’s military invasion of crimea was relatively uncontested by Ukrainian forces does not mean it wasn’t taken by force


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The popularity of Donald J Trump abroad [Re: Kryptos]
    #26256984 -

I'm not saying wikipedia is definitive, but it seems to disagree with you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_(country)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The popularity of Donald J Trump abroad [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #26257008 -

ballsalsa said:
I'm not saying wikipedia is definitive, but it seems to disagree with you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_(country)


That part of Georgia was never occupied. The part of "Georgia" that was occupied would be North Ossetia.

North Ossetia is Russian land.

South Ossetia was briefly the site of skirmishes after a rebel movement led by Georgian warlords tried to reunite south and north Ossetia. They chose to do this by indiscriminately killing Russian civilians in South Ossetia, and in the case of a few particular snipers, North Ossetia. Russia forces moved in as a result, because that's generally what happens when you kill random civilians of a country: the country gets pissed and brings in professionals.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The popularity of Donald J Trump abroad [Re: Kryptos]
    #26257096 -

Thats sounds eerily similar to the justification for occupying Ukraine.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The popularity of Donald J Trump abroad [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26257146 -

ballsalsa said:
I disagree on that assessment.

Who controls Crimea? 

Russia

Did they use force or the threat of force to obtain it? 

Yes.

Whatever vote the people in Crimea may have had is irrelevant to the question of whether or not Russia aquired territory through force.


But they didn't use force to obtain it.  They used the threat of force to prevent Ukraine from retaking it.

I'd actually strongly agree with your point if there hadn't just been a coup to install a US friendly president.  I don't think the Crimeans take foreign backed coups as lightly as you do.

ballsalsa said:
Whats your excuse for occupied Georgia?


Peacekeeping.  Of course, if you have evidence showing Russians are doing much more than just that, I'd be very interested in seeing it.  I'm not as familiar with that area.

ballsalsa said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
You're confirming an earlier point that Russian strength "was directed against Ukraine, not Crimea".


Thats a silly point.  If we were to go back to your Texas example, it would be like saying the patron state didn't use force against Texas in its annexation efforts, only the U.S.


I'm confused.  Are you talking about my Florida example?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The popularity of Donald J Trump abroad [Re: Kryptos]
    #26257159 -

Kryptos said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Edit:  I say this based on debunking the claim that Crimea had to follow the constitution after it was invalidated by the coup.


This was not debunked. Your entire argument here was basically that two wrongs make a right.


So you're saying that if Putin installed a Russia friendly president in the US, the rest of the country would have to accept that and follow the constitution under Putin or else it would be a second wrong?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The popularity of Donald J Trump abroad [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26257166 -

No, I was referring to your Texas example https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26254643#26254643

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The popularity of Donald J Trump abroad [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26257183 -

ballsalsa said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
ballsalsa said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
You're confirming an earlier point that Russian strength "was directed against Ukraine, not Crimea".


Thats a silly point.  If we were to go back to your Texas example, it would be like saying the patron state didn't use force against Texas in its annexation efforts, only the U.S.


I'm confused.  Are you talking about my Florida example?


No, I was referring to your Texas example https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26254643#26254643


That example was like Syria.  The Florida example was like Ukraine.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The popularity of Donald J Trump abroad [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26257223 -

Quote:
I'd actually strongly agree with your point if there hadn't just been a coup to install a US friendly president.  I don't think the Crimeans take foreign backed coups as lightly as you do.


But they’re fine with foreign annexation under the “threat” of force. Like the threat of force is any different than force. The only difference is whether the threatened party gives in without a fight or not.

It’s intersting that when it comes to crimea, it’s all about the self determination of the population and nothing to do with an invasion by a much superior military, while also thinking the Ukrainians were manipulated by the United States into overthrowing their blantantly corrupt kleptocrat president. They clearly wanted him gone, so who cares if the US helped (which we didn’t really). The crimeans wanted to be part of Russia and you have no problem with the Russian intervention.

Do you have any self awareness of your total bias when it comes to this situation?


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (10/17/19 01:05 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The popularity of Donald J Trump abroad [Re: koods]
    #26257338 -

koods said:
Quote:
I'd actually strongly agree with your point if there hadn't just been a coup to install a US friendly president.  I don't think the Crimeans take foreign backed coups as lightly as you do.


But they’re fine with foreign annexation under the “threat” of force.


Crimeans aren't the ones being threatened by force.  So ya, Crimeans are fine with Russia accepting their vote to move back.  They're now getting tremendous financial support including new infrastructure, a large ultra modern airport, a giant bridge to Russia, etc, while Ukraine isn't doing so well.

koods said:
It’s intersting that when it comes to crimea, it’s all about the self determination of the population and nothing to do with an invasion by a much superior military, while also thinking the Ukrainians were manipulated by the United States into overthrowing their blantantly corrupt kleptocrat president.


I think you finally get it!!!  :hi5:

koods said:
The crimeans wanted to be part of Russia and you have no problem with the Russian intervention.


Do you have any problems with the Kurds wanting their own territory?  Let's be consistent here for once.

koods said:
Do you have any self awareness of your total bias when it comes to this situation?


Yes.  I've told you many times I'm biased towards the truth and against hypocrisy.

You, on the other hand are so biased against Trump and Putin that you can't make a logical argument about either.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The popularity of Donald J Trump abroad [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26257365 -

Quote:
Do you have any problems with the Kurds wanting their own territory?  Let's be consistent here for once


The Kurds took control of that territory because Syria had lost control of it and it was being overrun by the Islamic state.  The borders of Syria remained unchanged.  Nobody annexed anyone’s territory. Let’s see what turkey does now they want to set up a buffer zone, which they would control.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The popularity of Donald J Trump abroad [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26261802 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Kryptos said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Edit:  I say this based on debunking the claim that Crimea had to follow the constitution after it was invalidated by the coup.


This was not debunked. Your entire argument here was basically that two wrongs make a right.


So you're saying that if Putin installed a Russia friendly president in the US, the rest of the country would have to accept that and follow the constitution under Putin or else it would be a second wrong?


Yes, in the strictest sense of the law, rebelling against a Russian-planted president would be unconstitutional. So, yeah, me picking up a gun and shooting Trump would be wrong.

Just like the vote that Crimea held was technically illegal.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The popularity of Donald J Trump abroad [Re: Kryptos]
    #26262290 -

Kryptos said:
In the strictest sense of the law, rebelling against a Russian-planted president would be unconstitutional. So, yeah, me picking up a gun and shooting Trump would be wrong.


I'm confused how the first sentence relates to the second.  Do you mean if Russia shot our President it would be 'wrong', but to not accept their replacement would be unconstitutional?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The popularity of Donald J Trump abroad [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26263313 -

The second sentence is an unrelated implication that donald is a Russian asset, willing or not.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The popularity of Donald J Trump abroad [Re: Kryptos]
    #26264503 -

Even if he were a Russian asset, that's not even close to what happened in Ukraine, so it's a bad analogy.

Forcing an elected President out of office and replacing him with someone chosen by Russia would be a much better analogy.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < First | | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 |

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* donald trump on howard stern KingOftheThing 486 0 09/30/04 07:11 PM
by KingOftheThing
* Young Republican National Federation president allegedly puts sleeping mans penis in his mouth.
( 1 2 3 all )		 TheHateCamel 7,631 40 09/21/07 02:08 AM
by LucidDream
* Serious question - Why is the right so popular on this board?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 all )		 ZeroRadius 13,156 172 01/17/07 09:16 PM
by zappaisgod
* US senators vote overwhelmingly to outlaw cruel or degrading treatment of detainees held abroad psilomonkey 901 6 10/06/05 08:32 PM
by gregorio
* What is more dangerous to America? Terrorists or Republicans?
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )		 1stimer 9,696 80 07/01/05 03:22 PM
by Ancalagon
* Stupid things that republicans have said
( 1 2 all )		 JonnyOnTheSpot 3,471 32 03/24/04 04:03 PM
by the universe
* Republicans have a lot in common with the Taliban
( 1 2 all )		 OneMoreRobot3021 2,042 22 03/13/05 09:25 PM
by DirtMcgirt
* republicans pushing that jerkoff fred thompson now KingOftheThing 1,553 11 10/14/07 01:55 AM
by Syle

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
8,443 topic views. 1 members, 28 guests and 15 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.031 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 18 queries.