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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
    #26219395 -

Have the spots spread Tom? If that was trich then your tub would be really ugly by now (Considering you saw the green spots several days ago). It spreads fast once it turns green. If those spots stay the way they are in the pic then it is not trich. Trich also has a texture of its own.

If it is, you can get those fruits, but you would want to get the tub out of your grow area before you mess with it.

Here is a pic of trich





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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Edited by Spiritualscience (09/30/19 09:02 PM)

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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
    #26219810 -

Oh shit!  So the tub is covered in bacteria and trich or it's not.  Given the growing conditions I've described, what led to the potential contamination?  What is trich and what causes it to develop?  Can I get rid of it?

Here is a photo from this morning.  Even with your trich photo, I can't really tell the trich from the mycelium.  I guess trich looks more like cauliflower. Can you guys see any trich?  Is the tub really contaminated with bacteria? Is the contamination spreading?

Can I pick and dry and use all of the fruit that is continuing to be produced?  If it's contaminated, is there a point past which I don't want to pick and use the fruit? 

Damn!  After all this time and effort!  Please advise.

Thanks,

Tom



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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
    #26219840 -

The bacteria and trich are due to dirty spawn.

Going MS>Grain isn’t recommended because it has a high rate of failure. This is because MS syringes aren’t inherently clean.

If you want to keep getting deeper into this hobby, it’s highly recommended you learn agar.

You can pick the fruits, but I would do so soon, as the bacteria and trich will take over quickly. I would toss after harvesting the fruits that are there.


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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
    #26220024 -

ChardRich,

My spawn bags showed no contamination, but some of my grain wasn't colonized when I transferred it to the substrate.  Could that have led to "dirty spawn"? 

You also say it might have been an unclean spore syringe.  If so, wouldn't I have seen contamination in the spawn bags?  I never had a contamination problem with syringes and BRF jars.

Is there any way to kill the bacteria and trich?


Thanks.

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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
    #26220045 -

BRF jars are more resilient than grains. You can't always see contamination. Your bags probably did show contamination. If they were at all wet in certain spots, that indicates bacteria. Also, if there were areas that did not colonize, it was probably due to bacteria.

I can assure you that your spawn bags were not clean and that is what is leaving you with your current problems. Agar allows you to see contamination quickly and easily so you can be sure you have a clean culture to transfer to grains.

If you want to move to grains, you'll need a PC, agar skills and oat/wbs prep skills.
As far as your tub, no. It isn't salvageable.


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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
    #26220057 -

Spiritualscience said:
Have the spots spread Tom? If that was trich then your tub would be really ugly by now. It spreads fast. If those spots stay the way they are in the pic then it is not trich. Trich also has a texture of its own.

If it is, you can get those fruits, but you would want to get the tub out of your grow area before you mess with it.

Here is a pic of trich






You are wrong, it is trich. It starts slow and then takes off.


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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
    #26220127 -

ChardRich,

Damn!  Well thanks for the information.  It looks like it's back to BRF for me.

Just to clarify, can I let all of the existing fruits mature and then harvest them, even though they're at different stages of growth? 

What about the new pins that continue to appear?  Will they be safe? 

Is there any way that I can look at a fruit and detect if it's contaminated and unsafe to use?


Thanks.

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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
    #26220147 -

tomcards said:
My spawn bags showed no contamination, but some of my grain wasn't colonized when I transferred it to the substrate.  Could that have led to "dirty spawn"?

You also say it might have been an unclean spore syringe.  If so, wouldn't I have seen contamination in the spawn bags?  I never had a contamination problem with syringes and BRF jars.

Is there any way to kill the bacteria and trich?



Not seeing contam in your bags doesn't mean it's not there. Trich, and other contams, can hide until it appears in your tubs. You can't compare spores to BRF with spores to grain. Just stop trying to make it work. If you want to use grains, switch to agar.

The fact that some of your grain wasn't colonized before spawning is a big clue there was bacteria keeping the myc away.

I agree with Chard, looks like trich to me, and most likely came from the syringe. But whether it's trich or not is irrelevant--your tub is fucked. It seems like the vast majority of Shroomerites think hydrogen peroxide is a futile defense.  However, I've seen minority of growers swear by it.

I just had a tub give a great first flush, then saw pink mold. I cut it out 2 days ago, sprayed the craters with H2O3, and hoping for the best. If it doesn't work, I'll get the same results as if I did nothing, so might as well.

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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
    #26220292 -

No need to give up on grains! Just learn agar man, it’s not hard.


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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
    #26220308 -

Again, I ask.  Can I let all of the existing fruits mature and then harvest them, even though they're at different stages of growth?

What about the new pins that continue to appear?  Will they be safe?

Is there any way that I can look at a fruit and detect if it's contaminated and unsafe to use?

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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
    #26220381 -

Okay or ignore my encouragement.

Your fruits will be fine. :tryingnottodie:


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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
    #26220415 -

ChardRich,

Thanks for assuring me that the fruit from this flush will be fine. 

What if fruit continues to appear?  Will they be safe?

If pins stop forming and growing, I should not dunk the substrate to encourage new growth because the contamination will just continue to grow too, right?  I should just throw the substrate away after growth stops, right?

Thanks.

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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
    #26220421 -

First i would move that tub out of your main grow area to a secondary spot to keep spore load in your grow low.

For finishing off fruits- depends how far they are. Established pins have a chance. You can salt cover the trich in an attempt to slow it's growth and sporulation. but it will still grow exponentially and is in much more of the substrate than you can see. You have a few days at most before it's totally green and gross.

Infected fruits will be fairly obvious. They'll get weak and whither like an abort, get squishy, pick up unusual colors. I would not eat anything that doesn't look & feel like a normal healthy fruit. Any fruits near the showing green i would harvest early just to prevent it getting infected and lost.

/e. I'll just add, chard may sound rough, but he's right and trying to guide you. MS>grains has a high fail rate. You say your bags didn't look infected, but it's hard to notice trich myc along with cube myc and i'd bet dollars to doughnuts your spawn bags atleast looked a bit bacterial because you went ms>grains. MS>brf or MS>agar>xfer till clean>grains are truly your best bets for success and avoiding the green.


--------------------
Space Ape Project
Links For Getting Started
Current PF Tek
Shoebox Assembly
All The Agar Info You Could Want
How It Should & Shouldn't Look


Edited by LtLurker (09/30/19 01:12 PM)

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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
    #26220423 -

Idk man, no one can tell you for sure. If I were you I would harvest and then throw it away and LEARN AGAR, but you don’t seem interested so good luck!


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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
    #26220581 -

Lurker and Chard,

I'm very interested in your input and I appreciate it.  I have much to learn.  Right now, I'm just trying to determine how to salvage as much fruit as possible from this tub, because it is my only tub.  And you have answered my questions. 

Once I harvest and then dispose of this tub, I will further research BRF tek and I will begin studying agar tek.


Thanks.

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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
    #26220786 -

Guys,

With this failed effort receding in the distance, I'm researching my next growing tek.  Here are my requirements:

I want to grow fruit in bulk substrate in one monotub.  I don't have the space or interest to grow in multiple tubs.

I don't want to inject spores directly into grain bags.

I'd rather not have to build a Still Air Box and buy a pressure cooker and impulse sealer. But I will if I must.

Regardless of the tek, it seems that the first crucial step is to ensure that the spawn culture is clean.  I'd do that by dripping the spores onto agar and watching what grows. Then cut off a piece of agar with clean mycelium growing on it and transfer it to grain or BRF. 

After it colonizes, transfer the grain or BRF to bulk substrate in my tub.

Can you please refer me to recent links to successful agar teks that satisfy my picky requirements?


Thanks.

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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
    #26220823 -

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24144021
That's the current tek list stickied at the top of the forum. It has everything you need in it.

A SAB is a requirement. It's just a big plastic tote with 2 arm holes, nbd.

Pressure cooker is only a requirement for grains, brf jars can be sterilized in a regular pot. Impulse sealer is not required. Grains can be done in quart jars, brf in half pint jars.

Downside of mono is it will take quite a few cakes. An alternative could be shoeboxes. Small simple unmodded 6qt tubs. can fit 2 in place of 1 mono and seperate your spawn incase you miss a bad jar. Takes 4 cakes to make a shoebox.

Agar takes more than a germ plate. You'll put spores to one plate, transfer, let grow, transfer best growth, repeat a few times until nice and clean.  There's a comprehensive agar guide in the original link.

Agar>brf is doable, but works best if you make an li or lc from the plate to inoc brf with a liquid ime.


--------------------
Space Ape Project
Links For Getting Started
Current PF Tek
Shoebox Assembly
All The Agar Info You Could Want
How It Should & Shouldn't Look


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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: LtLurker]
    #26220871 -

Thanks Lurker!

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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
    #26221154 -

You can also ghetto-rig a lot of these components. While not ideal, you can make a SAB out of a cardboard box, using Saran Wrap as a top window. I did this back when I wasn't sure how deep into this hobby I wanted to go. I also wanted something collapsible, since I lived in a tiny SF apt. Again, not ideal, but it worked and didn't impact my contamination rate much.

In a pinch, you can use an Instant Pot instead of a pressure cooker. 2 hrs on high pressure will sterilize 4-6 pint jars.

Lastly, you can get agar plates on Amazon, if you don't mind shelling out a little extra.

I wouldn't consider any of these best practices. They aren't going to win you mycologist of the year or anything, but they're definitely workable while you sort out how much you want to commit to things.

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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
    #26221299 -

Tom,

Most of the yellow is already gone. Either your photos are better or the FAE cleaned it up for you. Though the spots look suspect and could be trich, they also may not be.

My comment about it not spreading, which Chadrich says I am wrong about, was because you noticed those spots several days ago. Now it has been more than three days. If those spots are exactly like they were, with no texture of any kind, I doubt it is trich. I don't believe it is possible to look exactly the same for four days if it was trich. I could certainly be wrong, just like anyone else, but I have heard many, many guys say that once trich is green then it spreads quickly. I have not had trich.

Lurker's advice to protect your grow area is good, but you have already had your holes open for a while, so if it is trich, which has already turned green, then spores would already be there. If it ends up being trich I would bleach the shit out of the whole area and get an air purifier to run in there as well. If it is not trich, your grow is NOT fucked at all. You may have some minor bacteria. I just think it had too much water on it that was not evaporating and turned it yellowish. Your latest pic shows it being mostly white. It looks good besides the few suspect bluish green spots.

You can eat those fruits without any problem at all. MANY have eaten their fruits out of contaminated tubs with no problems at all. Some have even cut out sections of trich, or salted it, etc, and continued on with a good first flush. The only ones who say throw the fruits away do so out of ignorance and paranoia. You won't find any threads about ANYONE who ate fruits from a contaminated tub and got sick, besides the one's who ate ten grams and threw up and then tripped their balls off for eight hours, lol. The same thing would happen if you ate 10 grams from a perfect tub. You can find many threads that say the fruits are safe to eat, from people with actual experience of eating the fruits out of contaminated tubs. You will also find people guessing. You just have to discern which is which.

Of course, you will have to make your own decisions, but the last thing I would do is throw those beautiful fruits away. IF it was me, I would only open the tub outside for now on! I would definitely put a layer of the MP tape over the open holes. I would watch the tub closely for changes. I may salt the trich as Lurker talked about. Putting salt on one spot will not hurt the rest regardless. If I saw zero change in three or four days and no texture of any kind, I would assume it is not trich. I would not be freaking out about my grow area too much, because I would already know that it is contaminated. If those spots have been there for more than four days now and stayed exactly the same, I would not even salt it. I would bet anything it is just bruising, if that is the case. I have personally seen bruising in my tub that looks similar. Fresh mycelium bruises easily. On my last grow, the first flush myc would bruise if I barely bumped it.



--------------------
Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Edited by Spiritualscience (10/10/19 12:33 AM)

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