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Luck
    #26121636 -

Emerson once said that shallow men believe in luck or circumstance, while strong men believe in “cause and effect.” Me, I believe that there’s plenty of luck out there. Look at Julius Caesar, or Napoleon, or George Washington, to name three examples. Those three were all monumentally lucky. If they hadn’t been, we’d simply be talking about someone else. Some humans have to enter history as miracles, simply by the law of averages. Those who did benefitted not as much from destiny as from fortune and timing, even though they were indeed excellent individuals. Destiny only happens in hindsight.

Do you believe in luck? Or does everything unfold to some more or less rigid plan? Or are there elements of both? I believe that some things are not simply a roll of the dice, but I think fortune and luck are real phenomena, and that some of us seem clearly to be luckier than others, on numerous levels. What do you think?


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: Luck [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #26121687 -

I believe that my limitations prevent me from having that strong man's comprehensive view of cause and effect, and anything less than comprehensive is basically just going with gut feelings and luck. so luck it is.

strong men are probably liars.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Luck [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #26121765 -

Emerson was a strong believer in reincarnation and no doubt viewed this as generational too. So he would say those men worked many lifetimes to be those kind of men, and to be born into those kind of families that would be in positions to effect society at large in certain ways. His view will be coloured by that and won't make sense outside of that context.

But yeah I hold that same view as above and agree that there's probably plenty of luck even in that.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Re: Luck [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26121769 -

Not much different than if someone thinks a higher power blessed them.  It's all human inference.  Certainly someone has a better hand at life than others.  Not all is given, not all is earned.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Re: Luck [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26121833 -

DividedQuantum said:
Emerson once said that shallow men believe in luck or circumstance, while strong men believe in “cause and effect.” Me, I believe that there’s plenty of luck out there. Look at Julius Caesar, or Napoleon, or George Washington, to name three examples. Those three were all monumentally lucky. If they hadn’t been, we’d simply be talking about someone else. Some humans have to enter history as miracles, simply by the law of averages. Those who did benefitted not as much from destiny as from fortune and timing, even though they were indeed excellent individuals. Destiny only happens in hindsight.

Do you believe in luck? Or does everything unfold to some more or less rigid plan? Or are there elements of both? I believe that some things are not simply a roll of the dice, but I think fortune and luck are real phenomena, and that some of us seem clearly to be luckier than others, on numerous levels. What do you think?


I think you misinterpret the value of the message, by trying to prove something about how the cosmos or genetics work.

Many books on success are filled with examples of those who had much talent but did little with it, vs those who had little talent and worked hard, & were committed, and as a result had more successful and happier lives.

I suspect that was Emerson's point also. And I think the message is also that to believe the contrary leads to making excuses for failure, which of course leads to even more failure. Seems to me it's a message about developing character. Also I suspect this view is not unique to Emerson or success books, but goes back for thousands of years.

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Re: Luck [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26121840 -

i think "luck" is a conjured concept to help explain things outside of ourselves/control that we can't really explain otherwise.  i don't think it's something that is either "real" or "not-real"


this post probably doesn't help :lol:

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Re: Luck [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26121890 -

Personally I think a lot of it has to do with the beliefs the subconscious/unconscious mind holds. You can probably look at it on a small scale, with individual events, and the prevailing energy at person is giving off at that time. I'm sure most of us here have experienced that feeling of being in 'the zone' with something, like we can't go wrong, and whilst we maintain that feeling, we don't. We continue to be fortunate and get 'lucky'. Years ago I used to play poker. I remember this one big tournament where I had made it down to the final three. I was doing really well, flying, but started to lose a few hands here and there. I got into a hand where I was the overwhelming favourite to win, but I just had this feeling like I was going to lose. Sure enough, I did and got knocked out, because my mind believed that was what was going happen. It's often not something that we can override consciously. My subconscious believed I was going to lose, and my conscious mind couldn't overrule it.

This can also be viewed on a larger scale when you look a person's general tendency to be lucky or unlucky. They have an overriding program built into the subconscious mind that says they will be lucky (or not). It's pretty much another way of looking at karma. It's not just that, 'you did x and now y is going to happen.' It's general tendencies, karmic imprints which determine the overall patterns in a person's life.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.
~ Rumi


The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

Edited by PocketLady (07/21/19 01:50 PM)

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Re: Luck [Re: PocketLady]
    #26121905 -

Yep, bias is a big part of our thinking.  Perhaps that is why some seek karma neutrality.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Re: Luck [Re: laughingdog]
    #26121950 -

laughingdog said:
DividedQuantum said:
Emerson once said that shallow men believe in luck or circumstance, while strong men believe in “cause and effect.” Me, I believe that there’s plenty of luck out there. Look at Julius Caesar, or Napoleon, or George Washington, to name three examples. Those three were all monumentally lucky. If they hadn’t been, we’d simply be talking about someone else. Some humans have to enter history as miracles, simply by the law of averages. Those who did benefitted not as much from destiny as from fortune and timing, even though they were indeed excellent individuals. Destiny only happens in hindsight.

Do you believe in luck? Or does everything unfold to some more or less rigid plan? Or are there elements of both? I believe that some things are not simply a roll of the dice, but I think fortune and luck are real phenomena, and that some of us seem clearly to be luckier than others, on numerous levels. What do you think?


I think you misinterpret the value of the message, by trying to prove something about how the cosmos or genetics work.

Many books on success are filled with examples of those who had much talent but did little with it, vs those who had little talent and worked hard, & were committed, and as a result had more successful and happier lives.

I suspect that was Emerson's point also. And I think the message is also that to believe the contrary leads to making excuses for failure, which of course leads to even more failure. Seems to me it's a message about developing character. Also I suspect this view is not unique to Emerson or success books, but goes back for thousands of years.



You make a good point; I may have missed Emerson's meaning, and underestimated his statement. But one can interpret it multiple ways, and my intention was not really to explore Emerson's quote per se, but rather the meaning of luck. For example I mentioned Caesar. It is true that he was one of the most successful people ever to live, and he certainty applied "cause and effect" to his approach to life. But then on the other hand, I've done some reading about Caesar, and in any one of a dozen battles he fought throughout his career, he won them by sheer, blind luck. Various random circumstances intervened multiple times on Caesar's behalf, and he even talked about it, and wrote about it, in his Commentaries. It was a topic of conversation in Rome at the time -- his unbelievable luck. So I think, perhaps, we should not interpret Emerson in just one way.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: Luck [Re: PocketLady]
    #26121954 -

PocketLady said:
Personally I think a lot of it has to do with the beliefs the subconscious/unconscious mind holds. You can probably look at it on a small scale, with individual events, and the prevailing energy at person is giving off at that time. I'm sure most of us here have experienced that feeling of being in 'the zone' with something, like we can't go wrong, and whilst we maintain that feeling, we don't. We continue to be fortunate and get 'lucky'. Years ago I used to play poker. I remember this one big tournament where I had made it down to the final three. I was doing really well, flying, but started to lose a few hands here and there. I got into a hand where I was the overwhelming favourite to win, but I just had this feeling like I was going to lose. Sure enough, I did and got knocked out, because my mind believed that was what was going happen. It's often not something that we can override consciously. My subconscious believed I was going to lose, and my conscious mind couldn't overrule it.

This can also be viewed on a larger scale when you look a person's general tendency to be lucky or unlucky. They have an overriding program built into the subconscious mind that says they will be lucky (or not). It's pretty much another way of looking at karma. It's not just that, 'you did x and now y is going to happen.' It's general tendencies, karmic imprints which determine the overall patterns in a person's life.



I understand what you mean, and I agree that we create our own luck, good or bad, to an extent. But I don't think that applies to everything that happens in the objective world.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: Luck [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #26122006 -

I believe in luck because situations often appear to get out of hand in life, leaving luck to finish what was already started. I also believe that energy is attracted to the lowest possible state of being that is available to it. The absolut lowest energy state is not always available so whatever is available is often where luck lands a subject. In other words there can be a lot of different outcomes to similar situations if those situations occur at different times. McKenna made me think of that.

It might be hard to say when a situation will get out of hand. Sometimes it happens when a person's circumstances extend beyond their area of expertise. Other times the mind simply gets tripped up. Either way the ball keeps rolling in accord with principles that are not immediately obvious. These principles are what I think of as the hand of luck that guide movement at that time. I admit this might be less scientific than some posters in this part if the forum might be inclined to submit to, but it is my own perception of the topic.

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Re: Luck [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26122109 -

Tulipslave said:
i think "luck" is a conjured concept to help explain things outside of ourselves/control that we can't really explain otherwise.  i don't think it's something that is either "real" or "not-real"


this post probably doesn't help :lol:


it corroborates that the world is a huge system that is not 100% predictable because it is not 100% knowable.

we can make "educated guesses" and plan accordingly.
"with Luck", things work out, just describes the cases in which what we do not know does not work against us.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Luck [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26122210 -

To me, luck is when random chance turns out in your favor.

I think people are reluctant to believe in it because they don't want to admit that random chance affects anything at all in life. Probably because a lot of people like feeling in control, and the existence of random chances implies a total loss of control (and perhaps even an inability to ever have complete control).

You see this a lot in random accidents or bad events where people try to blame it on some elaborate conspiracy or something deterministic just because they can't stand the thought of it being random. If something good happens at random, they likewise place the "blame" for it on someone even if it makes no sense and was obviously random. You also see this in some religious beliefs that claim that God is directly responsible for absolutely everything from the weather to every roll of dice in the world.

Random stuff happens, it's a fact of life. It's too bad that some people can't handle the thought of random things happening.

I feel like an inability to comprehend randomness or admit that randomness exists in life also contributes to problem gambling. Some people really want to believe that gambling is deterministic when it is obviously intrinsically random.

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Re: Luck [Re: nooneman]
    #26122390 -

the danger in believing in luck,
is found in the customers of casinos.

The casino which does not believe in luck,
in fact quite the contrary is the one that profits,
in the long run,
in a very BIG way,
at the expense of those who believe in luck.

Of course flow states exist,
and athletes work hard to nurture them.
And positive and happy beliefs often have a helpful placebo effect.
But I don't think these factors equate to inexplicable 'luck'.

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Re: Luck [Re: ChRnZN]
    #26122392 -

If there is such an extent as karma.  It brings into a lot of question, without answers, as to why people are born in certain areas of the world.

I just saw on youtube that Russian POW's in Germany...well, half were shot coming back home and the other half deemed "non-persons".  Because Stalin feared they were tainted by the west.

How fucked is that?


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Re: Luck [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26122409 -

Not just casinos, also insurance companies, use the mathematics of probability, to outfox, luck or randomness, and obtain a predictable result: profit, form what seems to be inscrutable.

Computerized stock trading is another example, of applying math, to what is too complex for humans to fathom.

Edited by laughingdog (07/21/19 06:27 PM)

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Re: Luck [Re: laughingdog] * 2
    #26122427 -

Just because we are not always conscious of cause and effect doesn't mean it's not there. I mean, when you dream, your mind is literally creating the landscape and everything you see around you. Do you realise that when you are dreaming though?


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.
~ Rumi


The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

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Re: Luck [Re: PocketLady]
    #26122438 -

The human brain is the smartest thing ever discovered. Yet also the dumbest.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Re: Luck [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26122488 -

Morel Guy said:
The human brain is the smartest thing ever discovered. Yet also the dumbest.





define smart.  scientists are now inclined to believe that octopi are more intelligent than humans.  mycelial networks also are ranking among the highest intellect species on earth.

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Re: Luck [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26122496 -

Octipi?  Or octipus?

Ya cause fish been to the moon.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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