Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 |  [ show all ]
Re: Icelander Left Us Yesterday [Re: life is good]
    #25911555 -

Did it ever occur to that someone I love may have killed themselves because of bullying?

And hate?


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Icelander Left Us Yesterday [Re: life is good] * 1
    #25911563 -

Compared to your tone in here today, he was a saint.

Now, this forum has rules against flaming, and there is long-standing precedent here to maintain those rules, even for the dead.

Peruse the forum rules for yourself. Pay special attention to rules 1, 4, 5, and 6. You are freakishly close to being reprimanded for flaming and trolling a tribute thread. Probably’d be wise if you just walked away.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Icelander Left Us Yesterday [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #25911685 -

I wish Christians would see the gospels as non-literal also. Their literalism is the basis for their extremism. The Iesous of the Synoptic gospels is NOT the same Iesous depicted in John, yet Joh's gospel has tinted the Synoptics with a notion that God incarnated as the man Iesous. Whether this was from birth or after his baptism is still debated, but instead of being 'a man anointed [Christed] by God,' as were ALL the kings of the Jews, who were 'sons of the Almighty,' he was made into a metaphysical demigod born of a mortal virgin and Deity.

And of course, while Iesous [Isa] is recognized as a prophet in Islam, his crucifixion is denied, since God would never allow one of his prophets to be so humiliated as to be flogged and nailed naked to a cross (the loin cloth may have been a matter of artistic censorship). Regardless, it is likely the crucified lost bladder and bowel control as they died. So religious fanatics of both faiths can accuse each other of being liars, when these are stories, not journalistically accurate historical narratives.

After reading the Casteñeda books, I too fantasized about the Sonoran desert, but that is when I first started tripping and we'd look for "power spots," or do the "gait of power," (something I think Carlos gleaned from the Lung-Gompas of  Tibet). I don't remember where I read about "allies" looking like a conical 'witch's hat' suspended in the air, but I saw this illustrated in a volume of the popular 70s 23 volume set of Man, Myth and Magic. It was an excerpt from a book by C.W. Leadbeater and Annie Besant called Thought-Forms. The "luminous egg" of the astral human being is exactly what Leadbeater described in his little book The Astral Plane. So, either all these people are knowledgable about the phenomena of the astral plane, the realm of "seeing," or I inadvertently discovered some of Casteñeda's appropriated sources.

Sometimes it seems even cosmologists are writing new abstract mythologies, replacing personified gods and goddesses with their own 'thought-forms' of zero-dimensional singularities and multiple dimensions of which our 3 spatial and 1 temporal dimension are a holographic projection from a higher dimension. None of this answers anything, it just lends itself to an infinite regress. Just like Carlos' epiphany is diminished by Don Juan as being merely "the mold of man" and not to be worshipped, I see future cosmologists reducing God to just a higher dimension. :lol:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Icelander Left Us Yesterday [Re: Rose]
    #25911705 -

Agreed, Defiance is the spirit of the suicide club.
My brother was that way, I am also very much so, but I am disinclined to suicide, so it has to be Defiance along with something else, such as defiant resistance to endless suffering from some kind of pain.

but also I think it is an amplification of loneliness, as if one were at the extreme edge of the worst of all.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Icelander Left Us Yesterday [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25911707 -

:cheers: to ice

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Icelander Left Us Yesterday [Re: life is good] * 4
    #25911728 -

life is good said:
Was he a nice person?

Or did he try to make people feel as horrible about themselves as conceivbaly possible?


Icelander didn't try to make people feel horrible. Here on the forum he was quick to challenge beliefs and opinions he disagreed with. He probably did his fair share of creating the need for the Spirituality & Mysticism forum, but when people can't separate their beliefs and opinions from their own self worth, that's what happens. As far as the personal anecdotes, I don't think they display a hateful person but a good guy with issues. We had extensive correspondence here and he only snapped at me once, which was a result of my own bad mood at the time. I thought of him as a philosophical teacher and we shared a lot of views so that is worth considering, but I had my viewpoints and beliefs challenged on many occasions and had to sit back and consider how his viewpoint was more logical.

I'm a flawed person, but when I first started frequenting this forum I had a lot of wrong views and willful ignorance and I was in much worse shape back then. I credit Icelander, Orgone Conclusion, Markos, and various others as being very helpful in revealing my ignorance and biases, which are often painful things to have to consider... so perhaps that is part of the perception you are seeing. Icelander didn't try to hurt people, but he called things like he saw it which can cause hurt feelings.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Icelander Left Us Yesterday [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25911736 -

redgreenvines said:
Agreed, Defiance is the spirit of the suicide club.
My brother was that way, I am also very much so, but I am disinclined to suicide, so it has to be Defiance along with something else, such as defiant resistance to endless suffering from some kind of pain.

but also I think it is an amplification of loneliness, as if one were at the extreme edge of the worst of all.


I agree with your first paragraph 100%.

That last bit I quibble with. Although loneliness can and does play a part in many suicides. Perhaps most. It is not a required component of suicidal thought.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Icelander Left Us Yesterday [Re: Rose]
    #25911831 -

none of us are really that alone I guess.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Icelander Left Us Yesterday [Re: redgreenvines] * 4
    #25911853 -

Man, it's been a trip down Memory Lane reading some of our old exchanges.

According to Ice here's what he'd want as his epitaph:

Quote:
"once I wasn't
then I was
now I ain't again"


https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13562443#13562443

Sounds about right. :satansmoking:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Icelander Left Us Yesterday [Re: deCypher] * 2
    #25911984 -

Me and Ice kept in touch over the years, like everyone else hear I had my fair share of disagreement with him. It seems I couldn't convince him that he was better off staying until the bitter end. I have no idea whether I helped the situation at all in the end. He was more or less unmovable to me.

His opinion was that it would better his karmic lot with respect to how he approached it, and in the end I accepted that it was what he wanted. I can't say for sure whether he was right or wrong. I don't think it did have much to do with defiance, but more that he felt a very strong desire to match his ideals with action. Maybe he was tricked but he can at least say he tried to walk a righteous path. A small part of me suspects he might have been right in the end. Perhaps the larger part not, but who am I to guess what was truly in his mind.

I will certainly remember my relationship with John as the strangest one of all my life, in so many ways for good or bad we were cut from the same cloth, two nutters in stormy weather with an ocean between us.

I can at least say that he felt himself to be at peace in his last days. I hope he'll find whatever it is he's seeking. RIP.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Icelander Left Us Yesterday [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25912000 -

redgreenvines said:
Agreed, Defiance is the spirit of the suicide club.
My brother was that way, I am also very much so, but I am disinclined to suicide, so it has to be Defiance along with something else, such as defiant resistance to endless suffering from some kind of pain.

but also I think it is an amplification of loneliness, as if one were at the extreme edge of the worst of all.


I've thought of suicide as having a rational basis. That's where I fit into the club. There is no desire to defy anything except perhaps irrational laws. But from what I've been able to reason suicide makes sense in some circumstances. Not all of course and as with all things it seems to me there is a place and a time.

Here's an example of where Icelander has influenced me in this regard. My father in law is dying of bone cancer. It is terminal. And while he is a tremendous man of faith--one of the only Christians I can point to and say, yeah, he lives as he preaches--he contemplated suicide as an option. He discussed it with his family, myself included. We all sat around and discussed last wishes, how to approach his passing, and where he is currently.

Now before exploring death anxiety and more on this forum, I would have been perhaps appalled and shocked. But that was all based on an emotional reaction from childhood stories. Rationally it is one of the options and has every right to be weighed into a dialogue about dying. Which BTW we are all doing.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Icelander Left Us Yesterday [Re: Kickle]
    #25912015 -

There is a nuance within the term, “Defiance” that some people have caught, and others have not.

I take it to mean suicide is a final act of defiant self-control. In that sense, I wholeheartedly agree. For the act itself defies the laws of living.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Icelander Left Us Yesterday [Re: Rose]
    #25912024 -

I still don't really agree. I mean we all have to make choices and be willful, but I don't think utilizing options surrounding death is somehow different than using options surrounding what clothes to wear. We just like to pretend we only have certain options when it comes to dying but that's not really true IMO. There are a multitude of things we do every single day surrounding our relationship with death and the choices we make in response to it.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Icelander Left Us Yesterday [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #25912082 -

Quote:
I take it to mean suicide is a final act of defiant self-control. In that sense, I wholeheartedly agree. For the act itself defies the laws of living.


like for example...
within the philosophical doctrine of "pessimism" or "transcendental realism", the goal would be...exactly the above.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Icelander Left Us Yesterday [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #25912090 -

akira_akuma said:
Quote:
I take it to mean suicide is a final act of defiant self-control. In that sense, I wholeheartedly agree. For the act itself defies the laws of living.


like for example...
within the philosophical doctrine of "pessimism" or "transcendental realism", the goal would be...exactly the above.


Bingo.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Icelander Left Us Yesterday [Re: Rose] * 1
    #25912127 -

Here is a pic:


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Icelander Left Us Yesterday [Re: hTx]
    #25912131 -

I told him to quit flexing 🤣 shared my pic and he said I must make all the girls panties wet or something to that degree.

Was a good exchange, just reading over our many messages you can see our relationship go from hater/immature to me becoming a lot more mature and him becoming a lot more friendly, even offered valuable advice on how to beat OC in a debate :wink:


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Icelander Left Us Yesterday [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25912565 -

redgreenvines said:
none of us are really that alone I guess.


I wouldn't put my home phone number out there to invite random nonsense, but I would make myself available for a suicide intervention if someone on these forums needed to be talked with and didn't want to phone a complete stranger on a Suicide Prevention Line. :yesnod: I mean, Jokeshopbeard reached out to me a couple of years ago when a Shroomerite he knew I knew was going through a serious thing. I did contact him if only to reassure him that some of us gave a shit about him, sight unseen, known only for his written words. There have been other Shroomerite suicides since I registered in 1999, and I've known others in my own life. I want us all to live and die in peace, but not until we absolutely have to.

I think that I burned 2 bridges to childhood friends this past week when they sought to reconnect. One I haven't seen since his son was 3, now he's out of the house. I never saw his daughter. We were introduced when I was 6 and he was 5. The other guy I've known since elementary school, someone I camped out around the USA with in my 20s. Both bridges were burned over my professed political aversion to '45.' The first guy's wife unfriended and blocked me on Facebook when I posted an R. Crumb cartoon of a woman punching herself in the face and captioned "Women Voting Republican." I unfriended a third friend from highschool who was a tripping buddy, camping buddy, Grateful Dead show buddy, and who was the witness to my baptism in 1976. He married an older, conservative woman who molded his sorry ass into a Trumpster as well. I recently DID receive a visit from a close high school friend whom I hadn't seen since he was in my (1st) wedding party on June 11, 1983.

But my day in day out life is punctuated by visits by or visits to my 2 only local friends. I have either dropped people who turned toxic or people have dropped me, childhood friends included. I have no family, just one malicious male sibling whom I don't want anything to do with. I've always experienced loneliness. Thank God for my wife and my BFF from babyhood (who unfortunately lives in MA and me in FL), oh, and 2 cats - my first cats ever. If my wife predeceases me, I hope I am not found partly eaten by the indoor cat. :eek:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (04/03/19 03:28 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Icelander Left Us Yesterday [Re: MarkostheGnostic] * 4
    #25912666 -

I don't think Ice wanted any intervention. He explained to me that in the light of his aging he was bored...he wasn't in despair, though he had a serious dark streak. I suspect his mental state had more to do with it than his neuropathy. I think his sister and girlfriend thought that if they got him to move by me that I could get him interested in stuff again...at least I was told. I think they were pressuring him and Ice responded negatively to being told what to do and called his move south off. He was gone soon after. He told me the money wasn't working out. I now know that money was NOT a problem. I am flattered that people who did not know me...maybe read a few forwarded emails, had that kind of faith in me, but I learned a long time ago if you wanted him to do something don't put him on the spot or pressure him. Apparently his remains are in route to my location...that is going to be supremely strange for me. I will carry out this duty as I was instructed (prob this weekend) and report back to you guys who liked him ...well sort of...and those who couldn't stand him, but are interested. Those who didn't like Ice and wanted to rag on him he would have understood and said fuck you...lol. He wasn't an easy guy to like traditionally, but he was in reality without a doubt one of the good guys. I imagine this act will ruin another goddamn day for me, but I don't begrudge John. He went out as he said he would...he conquered a huge fear of his in doing so. He was scared shitless of death as I told him we should be. He didn't like being scared...


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Icelander Left Us Yesterday [Re: Huehuecoyotl] * 1
    #25912725 -

Intervention isn't always the right thing to do IMO. At the end of the day it's a different thing if someone has thought about it and believes in the action versus being called to it out of despair. People should respect one another's right to self determination. Rightly or wrongly that's my take on it. If it weren't a crime I might feel differently about alerting the township, so to speak.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

Edited by Grapefruit (04/03/19 03:32 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 |  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Even more about icelander's enlightenment (and the economy too)
( 1 2 all )		 redgreenvines 4,054 23 03/21/09 10:35 AM
by OrgoneConclusion
* 4/20 and Icelander's birthday
( 1 2 3 all )		 OrgoneConclusion 2,681 48 04/21/09 12:15 PM
by Icelander
* Invoking the 'Icelander Rule'
( 1 2 all )		 OrgoneConclusion 5,531 31 04/17/07 06:38 PM
by fireworks_god
* Icelander's other official Turkey day thread.
( 1 2 all )		 Icelander 2,340 25 11/27/09 08:42 AM
by Icelander
* Chicks are actually hotter now. ~ Icelander
( 1 2 3 4 ... 12 13 all )		 OrgoneConclusion 8,086 248 03/03/10 12:12 PM
by dill705
* On The Way To Iceland
( 1 2 3 4 all )		 Huehuecoyotl 7,028 71 06/26/06 12:18 PM
by BlueCoyote
* Icelander's enlightenment.
( 1 2 3 all )		 Icelander 4,002 43 03/19/09 12:15 PM
by Icelander
* Icelander's proposed "Intent" rule
( 1 2 all )		 Swami 2,418 28 08/04/05 07:04 PM
by Alobar

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
12,115 topic views. 2 members, 70 guests and 21 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.033 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 18 queries.