Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

It seems that questioning 9-11 10 years ago is all you have against rt.com (even though rt now makes fun of people who question 9-11), but prove me wrong.  I'm sure rt.com has made at least a few mistakes.

Let's play a game.  Tell me a news source that you trust more than rt.com, and I'll find a fake news story from them.  Then you do the same for rt.com.  We go back and forth until someone can't find a fake news story, and loses.  Ready?

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Enlil said:

I have found no source I trust, but this still could be fun.  I'll pick Last Week Tonight as my source. Have at it.

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The Ecstatic said:

LWT’s story on Venezuela a few months (a year?) back was chock full of blatant lies, for example that the US played no role in the current situation in Venezuela, despite crippling sanctions and the outright funding of right wing opposition groups.

Around 13:30 mark

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

On my computer he said it at 14:15 - "Refreshingly, what's happening in Venezuela is actually not our fault.  Accusing America of creating Venezuala's crisis is about as fair as fair as accusing OJ Simpson of murdering Princess Diana."

There's one hell of a lie right there.

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The Ecstatic said:

It’s 46 minutes long and the guy’s voice is annoying but I found this video to be a decent rebuttal to the picture LWT tonight paints of the situation in Venezuela:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Holy cow, that was a great video.    After watching that I've lost ALL my remaining respect for John Oliver because he is clearly one hell of a bullshit artist.  Enlil picked the wrong show - that video alone should win me this contest.

But prove us wrong.  Tell us about an rt.com lie.  Anyone here can play.   

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Enlil said:

I'll go with this story:

https://www.rt.com/news/426953-opcw-chlorine-saraqeb-attack/

Debunked here:

https://www.polygraph.info/a/rt-calls-white-helmets-jihadists/29233019.html

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Ok, let's go with that.  Your second link states the following:

Quote:

"A former British ambassador to Syria told RT the OPCW ‘s claim that chlorine was "likely used" in Saraqeb, Syria, in February is "seriously misleading" because it is based on evidence provided by “jihadists.”

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Peter Ford, the former British ambassador actually DID say that - he said it in your first link.  So it is true.  And rt.com very clearly attributed that statement to him.

Nonetheless, I've always argued that news media have an obligation to verify their news before they print it, but this was an interview done with a high ranking Westerner; it's not a printed news story.

Nonetheless again, the only 'debunking' done by your article was a claim that the white helmets are not, in fact, jihadists.  That's debatable, but it turns out irrelevant.  RT itself pointed out that the 'jihadists' were "Belgium-based Same Justice/Chemical Violations Documentation Center of Syria (CVDCS), the notorious Syrian Civil Defence (SCD) – better known as White Helmets – and the US-based Syrian American Medical Society (SAMS)."

So they were completely transparent about who it was - and the reader can decide for themselves whether they trust the white helmets or not.

Try again?

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Enlil said:

I'm sorry, Falcon.  You don't get to decide what is and isn't true or misleading.  If I decided, you would not have been allowed to use that LWT episode, because I believe the episode to be accurate.

RT printed this without any attribution to a source:

Quote:

"In fact, the entire OPCW account is based on witness testimonies and material evidence provided by selected NGOs as well as medical records offered by the same questionable sources, including Belgium-based Same Justice/Chemical Violations Documentation Center of Syria (CVDCS), the notorious Syrian Civil Defense (SCD) – better known as White Helmets – and the US-based Syrian American Medical Society (SAMS)."

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If you aren't willing to play using the same standards on both sides, I'm not interested.  If you want the bar to be any statement that the other thinks is false, that's fine.  That's the bar that you hit with LWT so far.  If you want the standard to be a verifiably false statement, then you didn't meet that standard with the Venezuela piece.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

What are you talking about Enlil?  It says it right in the OPCW report:

Quote:

"Through liaison with representatives of several NGOs, including Same Justice/Chemical Violations Documentation Center of Syria (CVDCS), the Syrian Civil Defence - also known as White Helmets - (SCD) and the Syrian American Medical Society (SAMS), the FFM contacted witnesses and confirmed their willingness to provide testimony and potential evidence."

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Again, rt is proven correct (unless you're saying you don't believe the OPCW report, but that's not on rt)

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The Ecstatic said:

Enlil said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Are you saying you don't believe US sanctions hurt Venezuela?

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No. I don't think they have much of anything to do with the situation reported upon in that piece. In addition, I don't think sanctions themselves are our fault.

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We just unilaterally impose them is all.

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koods said:

You have any evidence that the US is behind them?

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SirTripAlot said:

koods said:

You keep taking about sanctions. The sanctions until last year were against select individuals. Only 7 people were sanctioned until Trump sanctioned dozens more. The sanctions against the state oil company are barely two months old. The Venezuelan economic crisis predates all these measures.

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Its not just the US....The Bank of England is not allowing Maduro to withdrawal 1.2 billion in gold.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/01/26/uk/venezuela-maduro-bank-of-england-gold-withdrawal-gbr-intl/index.html

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

The Ecstatic said:

Enlil said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Are you saying you don't believe US sanctions hurt Venezuela?

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No. I don't think they have much of anything to do with the situation reported upon in that piece. In addition, I don't think sanctions themselves are our fault.

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We just unilaterally impose them is all.

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So Enlil, you don't believe sanctions have much of anything to do with the situation in Venezuela?  Billions of dollars being withheld while freezing loans isn't hurting them?  Why do you think the sanctions were passed?  Do you think the sanctions are helping Venezuela?

Edit:  By the way, here's the full text of what John Oliver said above "America has undoubtedly done some awful things in Central and South America. We backed coup attempts, juntas and atrocities in Chile, Argentina and Guatemala but refreshingly, what's happening in Venezuela is actually not our fault", clearly implying there were/are no coup attempts in Venezuela.

Did you find any fake news from rt.com?  I provided evidence definitively proving your first rt story was not fake after all.

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Enlil said:

Before we get to that, you have to establish that the statement was false.  Let's see your evidence.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

there's this:

Quote:

And The White House’s measures to freeze PDVSA’s U.S. assets, including proceeds from oil exports, and limit the company’s transactions are an attempt to largely cut off Maduro’s access to oil revenue that accounts for most of the country’s income in hard currency.

U.S. national security adviser John Bolton said the sanctions would block $7 billion in PDVSA’s assets “plus over $11 billion in lost export proceeds over the next year.”

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Enlil said:

The quote you posted is about sanctions levied in the last couple months.  How did sanctions levied this year cause the troubles in Venezuela last year???

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Quote:

The sanctions Trump signed by executive order are bound to dramatically escalate tensions between Venezuela and the U.S. and exacerbate the country's economic crisis.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

John Oliver claimed "what's happening in Venezuela is actually not our fault".  If we exacerbated a crisis, however that crisis came into existence, that is our fault.

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Enlil said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

John Oliver claimed "what's happening in Venezuela is actually not our fault".  If we exacerbated a crisis, however that crisis came into existence, that is our fault.

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That's a weak argument. So weak that I don't see how you can characterize the story as "fake." Is that the best you have?

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Quote:

So if you broke your leg, and then I hammered your broken leg with a baseball bat, you wouldn't say your new condition is my fault?

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