Home | Community | Message Board


Out-Grow.com - Mushroom Growing Kits & Supplies
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Amazon Shop: Portable Greenhouse, Reagent Testing Kit

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
America is destroying itself
    #2038697 - 10/24/03 02:24 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Earlier this year, just before he was fired as environment minister, Michael Meacher gave a speech in Newcastle, saying: "There is a lot wrong with our world. But it is not as bad as people think. It is actually worse." He listed five threats to the survival of the planet: lack of fresh water, destruction of forest and crop land, global warming, overuse of natural resources and the continuing rise in the population. What Meacher could not say, or he would have been booted out more quickly, was that the US is a world leader in hastening each of these five crises, bringing its gargantuan appetite to the business of ravaging the planet. American politicians do not talk this way. Even Al Gore, supposedly the most committed environmentalist in world politics, kept quiet about the subject when chasing the presidency in 2000.

Those of us without a degree in climatology can have no sensible opinion on the truth about climate change, except to sense that the weather does seem to have become a little weird lately. Yet in America the subject has become politicised, with rightwing commentators decrying global warming as "bogus science". They gloated when it snowed unusually hard in Washington last winter (failing to notice the absence of snow in Alaska). When the dissident "good news" scientist Bjorn Lomborg spoke to a conservative Washington thinktank he was applauded not merely rapturously, but fawningly.

While newspapers report that Kilimanjaro's icecap is melting and Greenland's glaciers are crumbling, the US government has been telling its scientific advisers to do more research before it can consider any action to restrict greenhouse gases; the scientists reported back that they had done all the research. The attitude of the White House to global warming was summed up by the online journalist Mickey Kaus as: "It's not true! It's not true! And we can't do anything about it!" What terrifies all American politicians, deep down, is that it is true and that they could do something about it, but at horrendous cost to American industry and lifestyle.

In the meantime, all American consumers have been asked to do is to buy Ben & Jerry's One Sweet Whirled ice cream, ensuring that a portion of Unilever's profits go towards "global warming initiatives". Wow!

Potential Democratic candidates for the presidential nomination have been testing environmental issues a little in the past few weeks. Some activists are hopeful that the newly elected Governor Schwarzenegger of California is genuinely interested. But, in truth, despite the Soviet-style politicisation of science, serious national debate on the issue ceased years ago.

Of course, nimbyism is alive and well. And, sure, there are localised battles between greens and their corporate enemies: towns in Alabama try to resist corporate poisoning; contests go on to preserve the habitats of everything from the grizzly bear to rare types of fly; Californians hug trees to stop new housing estates. Sometimes the greenies win, though they have been losing with increasing frequency, especially if Washington happens to be involved. These fights, even in agglomeration, are not the real issue. Day after day across America the green agenda is being lost - and then, usually, being buried under concrete.

"We're waging a war on the environment, a very successful one," says Paul Ehrlich, professor of population studies at Stanford University. "This nation is devouring itself," according to Phil Clapp of the National Environmental Trust. These are voices that have almost ceased to be heard in the US. Yet with each passing day, the gap between the US and the rest of the planet widens. To take the figure most often trotted out: Americans contribute a quarter of the world's carbon dioxide emissions. To meet the seemingly modest Kyoto objective of reducing emissions to 7% below their 1990 levels by 2012, they would actually (due to growth) have to cut back by a third. For the Bush White House, this is not even on the horizon, never mind the agenda.

This brings us to the third factor: the Bush administration, the first government in modern history which has systematically disavowed the systems of checks and controls that have governed environmental policy since it burst into western political consciousness a generation ago. It would be ludicrous to suggest that Bush is responsible for what is happening to the American environment. The crisis is far more deep-seated than that, and the federal government is too far removed from the minutiae of daily life.

But the Bushies have perfected a technique of announcing regular edicts (often late on a Friday afternoon) rolling back environmental control, usually while pretending to do the opposite. Morale among civil servants at the Environmental Protection Agency in Washington was already close to rock-bottom even before its moderate leader, Christine Todd Whitman, finally threw in her hand in May. Gossip round town was that she had endured two years of private humiliation at the hands of the White House. Few environmentalists have great hopes for her announced successor, the governor of Utah, Mike Leavitt.

What is really alarming is the intellectual atmosphere in Washington. You can attend seminars debunking scientific eco-orthodoxy almost every week. Early in the year, there was much favourable publicity for a new work Global Warming and Other Eco-myths, produced by the Competitive Enterprise Institute, an organisation reputedly funded by multinational corporations. Outside Washington, it can be far nastier. "I've never threatened anyone in my life," a conservation activist in Montana complained to the Guardian. "I do know, though, that I have gotten very ugly threats left on my telephone answering machine over the past year, and twice had to scour my sidewalk in front of the building to erase the dead body chalk outlines."

Out in the west, words such as enviro-whackos are popularised by rightwing radio hosts such as the ex-Watergate conspirator Gordon Liddy, who passes on to his millions of listeners the message that global warming is a lie. "I commute in a three-quarter-tonne capacity Chevrolet Silverado HD," he swanked in his latest book. "Four-wheel drive, off-road equipped, extended curb pickup truck, powered by a 300hp, overhead valve, turbo supercharged diesel engine with 520lb-feet of torque... It has lights all over it so everyone can see me coming and get out of the way. If someone in a little government-mandated car hits me, it is all over - for him." Fuel economy in American vehicles hit a 22-year low in 2002.

In this country, green-minded people can't even trust the good guys. The Nature Conservancy, the US's largest environmental group with a million members - with a role not unlike Britain's National Trust - was the subject of an exhaustive expos? in the Washington Post in May, accusing it of sanctioning deals to build "opulent houses on fragile grasslands" and drilling for gas under the last breeding ground of the Attwater's Prairie Chicken, whose numbers have dwindled to just dozens.

In the three years since then, Bush has danced like a dervish with the folks who brung him. Yet, even now, no one dare say out loud that they are against environmentalism: the political wisdom is that the subject can be a voting issue among the suburban moms, ferrying the kids around to baseball practice in their own Chevrolet Silverados. Instead, the big corporations and their political allies have - brilliantly - manipulated the forces that the eco-warriors themselves unleashed and turned them back on their creators. "In the 80s they took all the techniques of citizen advocacy groups and professionalised them," explains Phil Clapp. "That's when you saw the proliferation of lobbyists in Washington. The environmental community never retooled to meet the challenge. They had developed the techniques, but were still doing them in a PTA bake-sale kind of way."

Thus every new measure passed to favour business interests and ease up on pollution regulations is presented in an eco-friendly, sugar-coated, summer's morning kind of way, such as Clear Skies, the weakening of the Clean Air Act. The House of Representatives has just passed the Healthy Forests Restoration Act, presented by the president as an anti-forest fire measure. Opponents say it is simply a gift to the timber industry that will make it extremely difficult to stop the felling of old-growth trees. Another technique is to announce, with great fanfare, initiatives that everyone can applaud, such as a recent one for hydrogen-based cars. We can expect more of these as November 2004 draws closer. When they are scaled back, or delayed, or dropped, there is less publicity. It is a habit that runs in the family. Governor Jeb Bush's grand scheme to save the Florida Everglades was much applauded; the delay from 2006 to 2016 was little noticed.

"This administration has sent a signal to the polluting community, 'You can get away with bad habits'," says Browner. "State governments in the north-east were much tougher, so the north-eastern power stations upgraded their emissions standards in the 90s whereas the mid-west guys, who are their competitors, didn't. Now they're not enforcing the law."

"So what they're saying to the companies is: 'Don't go early, don't comply with the law first. The rules might change.' Even a company that wants to do the right thing has to look at its bottom line. If they get into a situation like this, they think: 'We spent $1bn to meet the requirements and our competitors didn't. Yeah, great. We're not going to do that again.'"

Under Bush, the lack of interest at every level has at last come into balance. The US is equally unconcerned globally, federally, statewide and locally. The environmentalists' macro-gloom has been off-beam before, of course. Perhaps global warming is a myth; perhaps the CEI is right and there will be a blue revolution in water use to complement the green revolution. There is probably just as much as chance that the next big surprise will be a thrilling one - the arrival of nuclear cold fusion to solve the energy dilemma, say - as a disaster. Maybe biotechnology, pesticides, natural gas and American ingenuity and optimism will indeed see everything right. It does seem like a curiously reckless gamble for the US to be taking, though, staking the future of the planet on the spin of nature's roulette wheel.

If you fly from Washington to Boston, there are now almost no open spaces below. This is increasingly true in a big U covering both coasts and the sunbelt. In the south-west, the main growth area, bungalows spread for miles over what a decade ago was virgin desert. The population of Arizona increased 40% in the 1990s, that of next-door Nevada 66%. That's, as Natalie Merchant sang, "...the sprawl that keeps crawling its way, 'bout a thousand miles a day", which is not much of an exaggeration.

Every day 5,000 new houses go up in America. Many of these fit the American appetite for size, however small the plot: "McMansions", as they are known. The very word suburb is now old-hat. The reality of life for many people now is the "exurb", which can be dozens of miles from the city on which it depends. In places such as California, exurban life is the only affordable option for most young couples and recent migrants.

These communities are rarely gated but often walled, creating a vague illusion of security and ensuring that the residents have to drive to a shop, even if there happens to be one 50 yards away. Naturally, they have to drive everywhere else. In August it was announced that the number of cars in the US (1.9 per household) now actually exceeded the number of drivers (1.75).

And yet. Time and again, around the US, one is struck by the stunning beauty of the landscape, not in the obvious places, but in corners that few Americans will have heard of: amazing rivers such as the Pearl in Louisiana, or the Choptank in Maryland or the Lost River in West Virginia; the Chocolate Mountains and the San Diego back country in California; the bits that are left of the Outer Banks...

And equally one is struck by the sheer horrendousness of what man has done in the century or so since he seriously got to work over here. In the context of ages, the white man is merely a hotel guest in this continent: he has smashed the furniture and smeared excrement on the walls. He appears to be looking forward to his next night's stay with relish.

Of course, there are still huge tracts of untouched and largely unpopulated land: in the Great Plains, where people are leaving, in the mountains, deserts and Arctic tundra. But last spring, in another of Washington's Friday night announcements, the Department of the Interior announced - no, whispered - that it was removing more than 200m acres that it owned from "further wilderness study", enabling those areas to be opened for mining, drilling, logging or road-building. That's an area three times the size of Britain. The New York Times did write a trenchant editorial; otherwise the response was minimal.

Not long ago I went for a walk in the Vallecito Mountains in California. After a while, I got myself into a position where the contours of the land blotted out everything and, after the noise of a plane had died away, there was no sight or sound at all that was not produced by nature. This lasted about a minute. Then, from somewhere, a motorcycle roared into earshot.

Sure, there are still places in this vast country where it is possible to escape, but they get harder and harder to find except for the fit, the adventurous and those unencumbered by children or jobs. Most Americans don't live that way. And nowhere now is entirely safe from being ravaged, sometimes in ways that prejudice the future of the whole planet. Al-Qaida and the Iraqi bombers have no need to bother. America is destroying itself.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/transport/Story/0,2763,1070043,00.html



--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinemntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 3,937
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: America is destroying itself [Re: Xlea321]
    #2039003 - 10/24/03 04:45 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

alarmist


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: America is destroying itself [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2039012 - 10/24/03 04:50 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

You're right, we should concentrate on genuine threats like WMD's in Iraq...


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinemntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 3,937
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: America is destroying itself [Re: Xlea321]
    #2039022 - 10/24/03 04:55 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Don't put words in my mouth.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: America is destroying itself [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2039095 - 10/24/03 05:45 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I didn't.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinemntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 3,937
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: America is destroying itself [Re: Xlea321]
    #2039128 - 10/24/03 06:17 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

pardon me if I disagree.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineneophyteshroomer
enthusiast
Registered: 07/07/02
Posts: 242
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
Re: America is destroying itself [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2039155 - 10/24/03 06:31 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

this news?


--------------------
Make Sure You Bring A Towel!!!
.....
..... You wanna get high?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: America is destroying itself [Re: Xlea321]
    #2039163 - 10/24/03 06:42 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

removing more than 200m acres that it owned from "further wilderness study", enabling those areas to be opened for mining, drilling, logging or road-building. That's an area three times the size of Britain




I saw a report on Lou Dobbs the other night that America has used up so much of its farmland in favor of building malls and parking lots, etc that our food exports are falling dramatically. Everyone has probably heard of the US as being the "world's breadbasket" right? Well not for much longer.

In fact, before much longer we may actually be *importing* food. Rampant consumerism has America devouring the world and itself. We are running huge trade deficits, and looking everywhere to feed our appetites while our corporations send our jobs overseas, including high tech ones. The economy is growing, but the jobs haven't come back. Why? Because corporatations are both downsizing and outsourcing. They say it will help the bottom line, but how will it help if there are fewer and fewer Americans with jobs to pay for their products?

Greed will kill you eventually.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
Re: America is destroying itself [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2039216 - 10/24/03 07:35 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Alarmist eh? Care to expand on that a little?


--------------------
Always Smi2le


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
Re: America is destroying itself [Re: Xlea321]
    #2039219 - 10/24/03 07:35 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Fuel economy in American vehicles hit a 22-year low in 2002.





If that is true then that is absolutely disgusting.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: America is destroying itself [Re: GazzBut]
    #2039293 - 10/24/03 01:19 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

That reminds me, i need to get gas on the way home, thanks.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: America is destroying itself [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2039339 - 10/24/03 01:53 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

How tough of you inny.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinehongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: America is destroying itself [Re: Xlea321]
    #2039361 - 10/24/03 02:14 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

This is something sent to me a while back. Its focus is the dominant farm-to-mouth processes found in the U.S., but I think it's the same system found elsewhere. (Though the input-output ratios will differ.)

********************

Since the Neolithic Revolution, man has altered the floral-faunal composition of natural areas, and introduced 'farms' - areas marked by plants and animals which are edible, or which in other ways are useful to man.

In both natural areas and farmed areas, the sun provides solar energy, which plants convert into biomass. Then animals, including man, draw their own energy reserves from the solar energy stored in the biomass of the plants.

Obviously, to be efficient, a farmer must HARVEST more energy in his crops, than he puts out in his labor. Robinson Crusoe, if he had spent his time farming inefficiently - putting more effort into his fields than he harvested in edible/useful product - would have soon wasted away and died.

This is an elementary rule of agro-ecology and agro-energetics: efficient farming means less energy in, more energy out.
Anthropologists have studied the simple farming methods of preliterate peoples. Roy Rappaport noted in a New Guinea highland people an energetic efficiency ratio of about 50 to 1. That is, for every Kcalorie of human effort put into their fields, the Tsembaga harvested around 50 Kcalories of food product. (R. Rappaport, 1968, Pigs for the Ancestors). Other anthropologists have gotten somewhat different results. For example, my own gross calculation of eastern Guatemalan milpa (corn-bean) farming, showed it to be only about half so energy efficient as Tsembaga yam farming, but, then, the Mayans I studied were peasants forced onto inferior farmland.

However, ALL primitive peoples so far studied use solar energy to their advantage. That is, they plant the crop, let the sun do the work of 'growing' the crop, and then they harvest the profit.
What about the modern agro-food system, such as in America? It is highly energy inefficient.

Modern American food production is highly complex. The system begins with the production of farm machinery, oil and gas for fuel, agricultural chemicals (fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides, animal pharmaceuticals, etc.). These must be transported to the farm, and applied to the fields. Seed is usually hybrid, and grown separately.
After plant crops are harvested, much of the result is fed to animals. Corn, edible by humans, is mostly fed to livestock in the U.S. As a result, 90% of the energy content is lost in the transformation from grain to meat (Nat. Research Council, 1974, Agricultural Production Efficiency).

Crops produced in American fields are often turned into manufactured foods before they are distributed and retailed. The energy cost here is tremendous.

Let us consider first just the inefficiency of the average American farm. Pimental et al calculated in 1975 that, on average, each cultivated acre of farmland in the U.S. required an annual investment of 1.5 tons of machinery, 22 gallons of gasoline, 203 pounds of fertilizer, and 2 pounds of pesticide/insecticide. The authors estimated the fossil-fuel energy required to produce these agri-business produced inputs. Their total was 2,890,000 Kcalories of inputs. But the average Kcalorie content of plant food crops is only about 1/20 of this amount per acre. That is, it takes American farmers 20 or so Kcalories to produce just 1 Kcalorie of plant food. Then, this plant food is mostly fed to animals - a further loss of 90% of the harvested plant energy occurs.

(see D. Pimental et al, 1975, "Land and Energy Constraints in Food Protein Production," Science, 190, pp. 754-761).

But inefficiency is not limited to the farmer. Much, perhaps most, American food is highly manufactured product.

Consider boxed breakfast cereal. A kilogram has, on average, around 4,000 Kcalories of food energy. But how much energy is required to process, box, deliver, and retail this product? Biologists David and Marcia Pimental derived an estimate: 15,675 Kcalories. That is, the processing of foods IN ITSELF often consumes more energy than the food contains. (see, D. Pimental and M. Pimental, 1985, "Energy Use for Food Processing for Nutrition and Development," Food and Nutrition Bulletin, 7(2), pp. 36-45).

How is such massive energetic inefficiency possible? The biologist, Howard Odum, give us the answer: ". . . industrial man no longer eats potatos with solar energy, now he he eats potatos made of oil." (in Energy, Power, Society, p. 15).

The American agro-food system is a system which flushes massive amounts of oil energy into the ground, and uses more huge amounts of oil energy to manufacture, advertise, and retail food to American consumers. Then, when an American eats a hamburger, he/she is consuming somewhere around 30,000 to 40,000 Kcalories of oil energy, and maybe more.

Today, more than half of American oil must be obtained from foreign sources. Another huge investment of energy is involved here, for the U.S. maintains massive foreign policy and military institutions to assure a constant supply of foreign oil. I will not discuss this topic here, although, of course, it adds a further energy cost to food production.




Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: America is destroying itself [Re: Xlea321]
    #2039363 - 10/24/03 02:15 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

No really thanks :thumbup:, my truck is on fumes right now.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: America is destroying itself [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2041096 - 10/25/03 12:13 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I just bought a brand new SUV. It's only a 4.6 liter V8 and about 239 horsepower (I was trying to economize). My wife wanted something bigger - that's when I threw her down on the (folded down) rear seats...


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: America is destroying itself [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2041255 - 10/25/03 02:00 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

No really thanks , my truck is on fumes right now.

You should really start a new thread if you want to discuss your car inny.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineProtester
Stoner ReekingHavok

Registered: 04/10/03
Posts: 361
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
Re: America is destroying itself [Re: Xlea321]
    #2041798 - 10/25/03 02:04 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I say we need a return to nature, but thats just my 2 cents.


--------------------
I work my shitty 9-5 and I pay my taxes, I'm not hurting anybody else. So why do you care what i do in my spare time.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: America is destroying itself [Re: Protester]
    #2041973 - 10/25/03 03:16 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

There's no nature to return to.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBushdoctor
Reject from thespirit realm trying to getthome

Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 60
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: America is destroying itself [Re: silversoul7]
    #2042013 - 10/25/03 03:43 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

How come that people that are against envoiremental preserving issues has so little to say? ALARMIST dosent actually counts as a debating move its just a contradiction of terms. Kind of like the monty pyton sketch yes it is no it isent yes it is no it isent..... and so on.

And by the way S.U.V. gy do you live outh in the wildernes if not i wonder how you justefy being yet another of those 95% of S.U.V. owners that has absolutley no use for a gas consuming expensive monstrosety like that.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: America is destroying itself [Re: Bushdoctor]
    #2042361 - 10/25/03 05:55 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Bushdoctor said:
And by the way S.U.V. gy do you live outh in the wildernes if not i wonder how you justefy being yet another of those 95% of S.U.V. owners that has absolutley no use for a gas consuming expensive monstrosety like that.



Was this directed at me? Well, after my Taurus got stuck and had to be pulled out of places 3 times last year (my wife twice, and me once), I decided I should get something more practical for living on a dirt road at 7,000 feet in winter snows. As far as the other 95% (where did you get that figure?), they don't have to justify anything to you. Maybe they work there asses off and like to travel in comfort and safety. Regardless, they only have to justify it to themselves.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Amazon Shop: Portable Greenhouse, Reagent Testing Kit

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* An English article on America
( 1 2 3 all )
Anonymous 2,666 44 01/22/03 08:09 PM
by Xlea321
* America sets global example by agreeing to scrap all nuclear weapons.
( 1 2 3 all )
FecalDildo
2,451 44 10/30/07 09:32 AM
by BrAiN
* Brit reminds Europe of ‘a world without America’
( 1 2 all )
Luddite 2,987 38 01/04/17 03:54 PM
by jakefake
* Who Rules America? Who Owns The Media? - The Facts usefulidiot 1,592 13 01/18/05 08:00 AM
by GazzBut
* Amerika ?ber Alles vs. America, Land of the Free Ancalagon 712 4 11/17/04 09:40 PM
by Gijith
* To All Americans Who Hate America
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
Anonymous 8,162 155 12/19/02 01:29 PM
by Evolving
* Has America done anything right?
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
Innvertigo 6,208 93 03/05/05 11:25 AM
by Great_Satan
* What I love about America...
( 1 2 3 4 all )
JohnnyRespect 4,013 77 05/13/03 11:43 AM
by Evolving

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil
1,698 topic views. 0 members, 0 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:

Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.05 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 21 queries.