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InvisibleThorA
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PBS show tonight - Avoiding Armageddon part 2
    #1461417 - 04/15/03 08:24 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Watch it if you can, I watched part 1 last night and it was an excellent show on the dangers of bio/chem warfare and terrorism.

Some scary things to ponder. Tonights show is about the nuclear threat, I think considering the N. Korea crisis that this show is a must see.



http://www.pbs.org/avoidingarmageddon/


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: PBS show tonight - Avoiding Armageddon part 2 [Re: Thor]
    #1461736 - 04/15/03 10:03 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

The original director or narrator or documentarian.. I cant remember, was fired halfway through this. The whole thing has been horribly cut up and edited. Im sure if you do a search on the web you can find the story

But, if it floats your boat.. have fun


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Re: PBS show tonight - Avoiding Armageddon part 2 [Re: Thor]
    #1462216 - 04/16/03 12:12 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I saw both shows. There's a lot of important information there, but the whole thing was kind of fear-mongering that seems designed to whip up support for "pre-emptive" invasions of just about anyone and everyone.

One important statistic from tonight's show: the US spends 7 billion on missile defense, which is totally fucking useless, and only 1 billion on helping the Russians secure their chem/bio weapons and fissible materials, which actually should be the absolute first priority of US national defense. If terrorists get WMD, it's probably going to be either from a bribed Russian scientist or by breaking into an undefended Russian WMD facility.


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InvisibleThorA
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Re: PBS show tonight - Avoiding Armageddon part 2 [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #1462537 - 04/16/03 01:55 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I'll look for it.

Its a good show, I especially enjoyed the part on biological threats since I've always been fascinated by the dangers of bio attack or even just future plague's.

Am I correct in assuming that since a director was fired you won't watch this show?

PK are you anti-everything :wink:


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Invisibledjfrog
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Re: PBS show tonight - Avoiding Armageddon part 2 [Re: Thor]
    #1462552 - 04/16/03 01:57 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

That show scares me.


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: PBS show tonight - Avoiding Armageddon part 2 [Re: Thor]
    #1462792 - 04/16/03 03:15 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I've seen many similar shows in last times. Asteroids, killer bees, biologocal warfare, supervolcanoes... Fear sells good but unfortunately makes people hysteric. Making documentaries about real world problems is much harder.
Have you seen Bowling for Columbine and its idea about the culture of fear?


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: PBS show tonight - Avoiding Armageddon part 2 [Re: Thor]
    #1462795 - 04/16/03 03:17 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Avoiding Armageddon.
Our Future. Our Choice.
Bomb Korea NOW - before its too late!


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: PBS show tonight - Avoiding Armageddon part 2 [Re: Thor]
    #1464119 - 04/16/03 04:44 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

considering the N. Korea crisis that this show is a must see.




Oh yeah, like n.korea is going to follow un sanctions now!  Iraq did and had no defense when america and britain decided to invade.  N.korea re-starting their nuclear weapon program is only a logical pre-emptive defense.  After all without nukes thier sitting ducks...they only started it up again after the US went against the UN.

Honestly i cant stand those "types" of shows.  I watched one about natural disaters once...i never knew mother nature was so...EVIL! :shocked: :tongue:


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Offlinepattern
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Re: PBS show tonight - Avoiding Armageddon part 2 [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1464143 - 04/16/03 04:51 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

What would happen if American troops were withdrawn from South Korea?


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: PBS show tonight - Avoiding Armageddon part 2 [Re: pattern]
    #1464171 - 04/16/03 04:58 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

...i dunno....

Actually i know very little about korea in general...its just that i can see why they've resumed thier nuclear interest in light of the current situation....well two reason anyway...

One- to defend from the states, as the UN isn't capable of anything anymore.

Two-n.korea has dreams of conquest in the future...

But we wont know until they go to the mc donalds and order...eh? :wink:


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: PBS show tonight - Avoiding Armageddon part 2 [Re: pattern]
    #1464208 - 04/16/03 05:08 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

What would happen if American troops were withdrawn from South Korea?




As a deterrent for any kind of attack from N.korea they are probabaly doing a great job and if they were to leave their posts N.Korea might attack S.korea, although this is far from proven. Really they are there to act as a balance, to maintain a standoff, in the same way that the cold war was one big standoff. This kind of logic is basically flawed in that the threat of violence is used as a deterrent for violence. Obviously a true peace cannot be achieved with the threat of violence for ever hanging over it. But sady this kind of logic is preferable to the new logic which implies the only way to achieve peace is by attacking anything we perceive as a threat. This takes the originally flawed logic to a new level.


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Offlinepattern
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Re: PBS show tonight - Avoiding Armageddon part 2 [Re: GazzBut]
    #1464248 - 04/16/03 05:15 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Its my understanding that there are under 50,000 American troops in South Korea. This is a deterrent but would it truly stop the North Korean army, which outnumbers the Americans twenty to one ?

My theory is that Kim J Il is going insane, from the American presence. It is well known that Americans drive people crazy.

Maybe if it some troops were withdrawn, in exchange for nuclear disarmament. Otherwise I don't think North Korea is going to be persuaded to stop their nuclear program.


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Offlinepattern
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Re: PBS show tonight - Avoiding Armageddon part 2 [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1464256 - 04/16/03 05:17 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

> But we wont know until they go to the mc donalds and order...eh?

lol. That must some metaphor for American diplomacy. Colin Powell appears at the drive thru and asks, "You want sanctions with that order of uranium?"


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InvisibleThorA
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Re: PBS show tonight - Avoiding Armageddon part 2 [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1464381 - 04/16/03 05:46 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Oh yeah, like n.korea is going to follow un sanctions now! Iraq did and had no defense when america and britain decided to invade. N.korea re-starting their nuclear weapon program is only a logical pre-emptive defense. After all without nukes thier sitting ducks...they only started it up again after the US went against the UN.



They did this because they are in desperate need for humanitarian aid and yes in part for what is in their mind a necessary move to defend themselves from imperialist aggression.

Plus it was not the US going in without the UN that prompted this crisis, it only became a full blown problem when Bush called them part of the Axis of evil.

Look at this timeline for the full history of this crisis:
Timeline: North Korea's nuclear weapons development

Quote:

Honestly i cant stand those "types" of shows. I watched one about natural disaters once...i never knew mother nature was so...EVIL!



Heh, actually I enjoy those types of mother nature goes mad shows, not the FOX ones but real documentaries that show what our planet can do.

Being born in Iceland you kind of grow up without fear of the enviornment since its a waste of time to be scared of it. Even though I've only lived in Iceland for 14yrs total, I've been there for two large quakes (7.2,7.4) and 3 volcanoes.. Nothing too serious mind you, but growin up you certainly are aware of the threat living in a place like Iceland.

Watching these 'type' of programs is informative, of course they are a point of view but that doesn't take away from the facts presented in such shows. As long as the viewer takes it with a grain of salt, as anyone should with any form of news/documentary/etc, then what are you all so against it for?

Did you even watch it?


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InvisibleThorA
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Re: PBS show tonight - Avoiding Armageddon part 2 [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1464410 - 04/16/03 05:53 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

...i dunno....

Actually i know very little about korea in general...its just that i can see why they've resumed thier nuclear interest in light of the current situation....well two reason anyway...



Well I'd recommend reading a bit more, cause whats the point of discussing this if you aren't familiar with the situation?

Quote:

One- to defend from the states, as the UN isn't capable of anything anymore.



This has nothing to do with the UN, N. Korea is a hermit state that is not involved with world politics. The great leader knows exactly what would happen if his people find out just how bad things are in N. Korea and he wants to build nuclear weapons to ensure his tight grip on the regime and encourage people to not mess with him.

Its a two fold strategy, discourage invasion and use the nuclear threat to get what he wants, more AID/OIL/etc...

Quote:

Two-n.korea has dreams of conquest in the future...



I doubt that, they talk constantly about the reunification of Korea, but the regime is fully aware a war is something they would lose.

Quote:

Quote by pattern ...... "What would happen if American troops were withdrawn from South Korea?"




Hard to say, most I would think this would only cause a lot more problems since it would leave the South to defend itself and by themselves they would be a tempting target for N. Korea to force a reunification.

It would be a huge mistake for the US to withdraw from Korea, and I doubt anyone in the government would even consider such an action.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: PBS show tonight - Avoiding Armageddon part 2 [Re: pattern]
    #1464413 - 04/16/03 05:54 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I see your point. It could get kind of irritating couldnt it?  :grin: 


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Offlinepattern
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Re: PBS show tonight - Avoiding Armageddon part 2 [Re: Thor]
    #1464503 - 04/16/03 06:22 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Hard to say, most I would think this would only cause a lot more problems since it would leave the South to defend itself and by themselves they would be a tempting target for N. Korea to force a reunification.




The South is capable of defending itself, I think, with over 600,000 troops. Another option could be to withdraw the Americans and provide superior military equipment to the South.

Quote:

It would be a huge mistake for the US to withdraw from Korea, and I doubt anyone in the government would even consider such an action.




I agree that the Bush administration would never consider it. There are two alternatives: do nothing, increase the troops. The latter of which would signal to North Korea that a pre-emptive strike is imminent.

Who knows? Withdraw 2000 troops and see what happens...


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InvisibleThorA
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Re: PBS show tonight - Avoiding Armageddon part 2 [Re: pattern]
    #1464894 - 04/16/03 08:36 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I think the problem with N. Korea is if you remove US troops he tells his country they are 'running scared' or that N. Korea is winning against them.

Giving his regime more legitimacy and power than it already has in spades.

I do think the Americans need to be there, yes the south Korean army is large, but a lot of the equipment and technology is US, so I don't think the US would just leave that all behind :smile:

I just think removing US troops only encourages Kim Jong to be more aggressive in the future, I mean he's a bully and the south Koreans and US can't back down from him.

Its a messy situation any way you look at it.


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Offlinewingnutx
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Re: PBS show tonight - Avoiding Armageddon part 2 [Re: pattern]
    #1468115 - 04/17/03 07:11 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

There are about 37,000 US troops in South Korea.

The number of troops isn't the deterrent. The deterrent is the fact that killing them would draw the US in full force.

South Korea could beat the North now, but it would mean losing Seoul and everyone in it. The north has a huge army, but that doesn't make up for the fact that they are a backward agrarian (and not even good at that) society. South Korea has quality gear, industrial might, and their troops are fucking hard core.

I really liked deploying to Korea. It's beautiful, the food is great, and the people are really cool.


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