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Offlineekomstop
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What's keeping the body alive?
    #2589536 - 04/22/04 02:25 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

In regards to regular metabolism function, among other seemingly 'automatic' processes that may occur in multi-cellular organisms..What, if anything, is actually managing these processes? Has there really been any in-depth research about something like this before?

I mean, in a nutshell..the organism seems to automatically 'round up the troops and send them all to whichever area of the body they're services are needed, for whatever reason. As far as I know, this can be observed in any and all plants and animals on the planet, right down to cellular culture. Is it even possible to explain how our bodies seem to 'know' how and when to perform a task such as healing a broken bone, or even a minor scrape or puncture? Not to mention it seems to know exactly which part of the organism needs attention, as it immediately begins to work towards correcting the problem at the cellular level..Not to mention, it seems to do this very efficiently, while keeping error at a bare minimum.

This is obviously some kind of survival strategy..the body wants to stay alive. But I mean..how? I am not controlling these processes..the body almost seems to have a 'mind of its own'..in some sense. As if it is intelligent by it's self, not requiring my conscious effort to maintain it.

For a while I have almost thought of consciousness itself as an example of a sort of 'higher order' type of phenomenon, but I mean..metabolism doesn't even need to be acknowledged by the conscious mind in order for it to perform its (very complex) job. Is it possible that this could be seen as 'proof' of the presence of some kind of 'life force energy' that seems to be present, or atleast within reach of each and every living thing on this planet..?


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OfflineFrog
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Re: What's keeping the body alive? [Re: ekomstop]
    #2589551 - 04/22/04 02:33 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Air, food, and water. Oh, and don't forget to take a dump every so often. That "back-up" can kill you.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Invisiblebert
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Re: What's keeping the body alive? [Re: ekomstop]
    #2589554 - 04/22/04 02:34 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Well, your body can survive in a coma. While you may not be conscious, your body has autonomic functions that are kept going by your hypothalamus. Your body is 'attempting to survive' because that's just how it and all other living organisms evolved. The force behind evolution? Who knows, the universe settles toward equilibrium?


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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Offlinemanna_man
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Re: What's keeping the body alive? [Re: ekomstop]
    #2589602 - 04/22/04 02:47 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

"I am not controlling these processes..the body almost seems to have a 'mind of its own'..in some sense. As if it is intelligent by it's self, not requiring my conscious effort to maintain it. "

Most of our biological processes are unconscious, are they not? Think of a heartbeat, or the regulation of breathing and body temp. All this is controlled by our brain, although we are not conscious of it.

The structure of a cell is not that much different than the structure of the human body, in the sense that all its organs are reliant on the whole of the system. Just like how humans are needed to make a society function, cells are needed to make a human fuction, and the cytoplasm and nucleus are essential for the functioning of the cell.

If it seems like cells are almost intelligent beings, it's because in a way, they are. They tend to the repairs needed in order to keep their "universe" alive.


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This post is protected under copyrite law.All above content is strictly the property of ?manna_man.Any infringement of copyright property is strictly prohibited.Any violators will be stretched, shot, and then vaporized into a state of anti-matter, where they will cease to exist.


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: What's keeping the body alive? [Re: bert]
    #2589611 - 04/22/04 02:48 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Interesting perspective, frog :lol:

Not trying to put up an argument here, but does that suggest that the 'hypothalamus' (I wish I could say I knew what this was :wink: ) is in constant communication with 100% of the body, 100% of the time?  Sounds like it would be quite a demanding job!  :nut:


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: What's keeping the body alive? [Re: manna_man]
    #2589653 - 04/22/04 03:04 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

"Most of our biological processes are unconscious, are they not? Think of a heartbeat, or the regulation of breathing and body temp. All this is controlled by our brain, although we are not conscious of it."




Yeah, I was thinking a little about these more obvious 'automatic' occurrences (breathing more specifically) while writing the original post..breathing seems to be a little different to me..basically because, we can control it..If we want to.  But I mean, it doesn't seem like we can take control of a metabolic process consciously, even if did want to..by that I mean, if I were to cut myself and began to 'concentrate' on the problem, as we could with our breath, I'm not sure it would heal any faster than if I were to just ignore it.

I'm just tossing thoughts around here.. *shrug*

Quote:

They tend to the repairs needed in order to keep their "universe" alive.




:grin:


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Invisiblebert
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Re: What's keeping the body alive? [Re: ekomstop]
    #2589672 - 04/22/04 03:13 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Well, thats if you view consciousness as separate from automatic responses. Our choices right now could be nothing more than well honed instincts that have evolved in complexity over time both through the sharing of information over generations as well as through biological evolution.


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: What's keeping the body alive? [Re: bert]
    #2589689 - 04/22/04 03:20 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I agree.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: What's keeping the body alive? [Re: ekomstop]
    #2589776 - 04/22/04 04:13 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Is it even possible to explain how our bodies seem to 'know' how and when to perform a task such as healing a broken bone, or even a minor scrape or puncture?
Well it's not that any part of the body has to "know" when a part needs healing...it is the nature of our bodies, down to a cellular level, to repair any damage. When a bone breaks, the cells on each side of the break are prgramed to grow until the bone is whole again. Same for cuts, bruises, and almost any other damage. :smile:

Cells don't need "messages" from any other part of the body to start repair work if they are able to sense damage directly. But when a cell is damaged, in most cases, it releases chemicals which "notify" surrounding tissue and remote areas of the body. Different cells respond differently.

As for higher functions, the more primitive portions of the brain are mostly in control. This is probably why we are normaly not aware of these functions.


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: What's keeping the body alive? [Re: trendal]
    #2590471 - 04/22/04 11:57 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Well then, problem solved I guess :smile:

It still kind of interests me that the body just seems to DO these kinds of things by default..I guess this has probably been the case with all life forms ever since the beginning..

As for higher functions, the more primitive portions of the brain are mostly in control. This is probably why we are normaly not aware of these functions.

Now you got me thinking..what is in change of these parts of the brain?  :nut:

*Quietly fades into the background to re-read his Where's Waldo books..*

:mushroom2:


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: What's keeping the body alive? [Re: ekomstop]
    #2590475 - 04/22/04 11:58 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

chi
and
the universe


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: What's keeping the body alive? [Re: ekomstop]
    #2590817 - 04/22/04 01:38 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

It runs itself!

Self-organization is rampant in our universe :wink:


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: What's keeping the body alive? [Re: Shroomism]
    #2591782 - 04/22/04 06:11 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

"chi"

it's a common misconception that chi is responsible for anything. Whether you're a martial artist, a healer, or any other person who's practice involves a paradigm wherein chi exists, you gotta realize that chi is nothing but a by-product.

In this discussion, chi is no explanation. Chi is a product of that process/energy/exchange that produces life.


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: What's keeping the body alive? [Re: ekomstop]
    #2591865 - 04/22/04 06:39 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I have read that some people have demonstrated the ability to meditate themselves into death, through choice. I wonder what changes took place, at that moment, that life left the body?

It's like someone dying in bed of old age. One moment they are living, the next they are dead. What changes? Where does the "life" go?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: What's keeping the body alive? [Re: Revelation]
    #2591941 - 04/22/04 07:08 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I covered this in great depth a few months ago. Nothing goes anywhere.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: What's keeping the body alive? [Re: Swami]
    #2591957 - 04/22/04 07:14 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

So what happens?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: What's keeping the body alive? [Re: Revelation]
    #2591981 - 04/22/04 07:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Get a wind-up clock. Wind the spring. Now tell us exactly what magical transition happens when the spring energy is fully dissipated.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: What's keeping the body alive? [Re: Swami]
    #2592184 - 04/22/04 08:59 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Get a wind-up clock. Wind the spring. Not tell us exactly what magical transition happens when the spring energy is fully dissipated.




Hmm..But a spring doesn't exactly seem to be alive, in the sense that we are. It doesn't metabolize..

The concept of 'Chi' sounds like it might have some merit to it, I have also thought maybe 'nature' itself might be playing a role in the organized dynamics of all living things.

But again, Trendal does have a point. Perhaps our bodies just 'do' what they do because..that's what they do!


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Invisiblebert
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Re: What's keeping the body alive? [Re: ekomstop]
    #2592630 - 04/22/04 10:48 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

The 'life' doesn't go anywhere because 'life' isn't a measurable force. It's just a change in state I think.


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: What's keeping the body alive? [Re: bert]
    #2592743 - 04/22/04 11:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

i think thats what swami is referring to. What keeps the body alive may be ATP, or like you said... metabolism.

Another important thing... that all the vital systems are in check :wink:


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What?


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