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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25676985 -

obviously you are inexperienced in Buddhist meditation and the language used describing experience from that.
- voidness in philosophy can be anything such as you say, and you are way ahead of me in that direction; but in Buddhism it is not a deduction that hinges on another idea, such as any good philosophic concept can be taken to be (connected conceptually to other concepts that you can think up).

Voidness in buddhism is used in two ways (tricky buddhist masters)
1. as relates to anatta, no-self, experienced directly and repeatedly in meditation, liberating by seeing chains of dependent origination, conditioning, and defensiveness. (As with mushroom ego-loss experiences, it is not what you think up, it just happens and is quite refreshing when it does).
2. as relates to space - one of the 5 basic elements, again as an object of meditation - something that is experienced as opposed to rationalized or considered or thought about at arms length.


meditation is not something for people who are weak - did you get that idea from Trump?


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25677136 -

whatever man, you aren't telling me anything dude. nothing at all i don't already know.

where did i say anything about meditation? [if it was earlier in the thread, from days ago, erm, was it something along the lines of "meditation isn't all there is to Buddhism"?]
--
no-self is a completely misunderstood concept in most of the modern Buddhism, because of Anatta, the concept of "no-self" being taken to be a refutation of the concept of Brahman, which, it clearly isn't, if read correctly.

Quote:
- voidness in philosophy can be anything such as you say, and you are way ahead of me in that direction; but in Buddhism it is not a deduction that hinges on another idea, such as any good philosophic concept can be taken to be (connected conceptually to other concepts that you can think up).



what you are pointing at here is merely the extremity of my postulation- that is to say, the idea i've posited, maybe perhaps vexingly- but nonetheless, the point of positing it is to show the connection between that idea and the concept within Buddhism, clearly evident as per the doctrine, and which therein evincing the predisposition towards a possibly convergence, and thence, a theoretical basis for the connection- that is what i'm pointing out. that Buddhism is often misapprehending the subject matter, without strict guidance and an understanding of the dialectic, and therefore, the dialectical nature of said 'Guidance' [you may remember Buddha was silent on many matters, and on many more still, spoke in similes (similar to Jesus's parables), because the actual "concrete" (for lack of a better word) "nature" of the concepts espoused on complex and at quite a few times, resolve into the ineffable.

Quote:
2. as relates to space - one of the 5 basic elements, again as an object of meditation - something that is experienced as opposed to rationalized or considered or thought about at arms length.


known colloquially as the "fetch", from in some traditions.

Quote:
meditation is not something for people who are weak - did you get that idea from Trump?


again, you are just pulling that from the air. i haven't said anything about meditation being 'weak'.

you and your Trump Derangement Syndrome.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25677747 -

it's my birthday, so, I letting you off the hook.

here is a nice poem from Leonard


So I must say it quickly:
Whoever is in your life,
those who harm you,
those who help you;
those whom you know
and those whom you do not know -
let them off the hook,
help them off the hook.
Recognize the hook.
You are listening to Radio Resistance.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25678124 -

Ha, Ha, So are you drinking or meditating on this special occasion:)and why does one not preclude the other

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25678215 -

drinking or meditating?
both (a taste of gifted tequila, 3 oz of wine, several brief sessions of directed awareness) and some al-lad (goofy and definitive),
but inspired by all the mounting world wide (including America) acknowledgement of climate change this week.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #25678315 -

For the casual viewer

In the Tibetan Shambhala tradition apparently there is something called "mindful drinking":

once a meditator has developed basic Buddhist discipline ... the practitioner is ready to incorporate Vajrayana teachings, where the simple prohibitions outlined in the Sutras are re-evaluated. When a meditator reaches this point, which often takes a number years in the Shambhala tradition, a dangerous substance like alcohol is viewed as a potential aide for the practitioner. Within the context of strong discipline and clear intention, alcohol holds the possibility of no longer acting as a conventional escape, but instead being a tool for loosening the subtle clinging of ego.


https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/questions/2512/is-moderate-drinking-acceptable-in-buddhism

Some Vajrayana rituals include use of certain taboo substances, such as blood, semen, alcohol and urine, as ritual offerings and sacraments, though these are often replaced with less taboo substances in their place such as yogurt. Tantric feasts and initiations sometimes employed substances like human flesh as noted by Kahha’s Yogaratnamala. The use of these substances is related to the non-dual (advaya) nature of Buddhahood. Since the ultimate state is in some sense non-dual, a practitioner can approach that state by "transcending attachment to dual categories such as pure and impure, permitted and forbidden". As the Guhyasamaja Tantra states "the wise man who does not discriminate achieves buddhahood".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajrayana#Affirmation_of_the_feminine,_antinomian_and_taboo

Edited by Buster_Brown (12/14/18 07:37 AM)

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown] * 2
    #25678515 -

If you think about it, if you follow buddhism you'll comprehend better life.

Its the only religion which dont defend hierarchies or meaningless pleasures
They want everyone to experience transcendence and be happy.

They dont talk about suffering. Its the only one which preferes life to death and instead of taking you to heaven takes you to heaven on earth while you dwell in your body.

People dont want to go buddist because they simply dont have the time, buddhism at the first glance may seem a waiting for better things to come all the time, and people take the step out because sometimes it seems forever and prefer to give up in detriment to simple and hedonistic life.

Try to understand the buddist nature and you will have a new perception on life´
im not saying it fits to your style of life and you have to change religion.
Im saying buddhism is the most advanced and not simple way

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Spiralspider]
    #25683586 -

Within the context of strong discipline and clear intention, alcohol holds the possibility of no longer acting as a conventional escape, but instead being a tool for loosening the subtle clinging of ego.

When I read this, I think yeah. But in a very specific context. Where-in what one has been taught is an obstacle to letting go. And so if one has taught and adhered to non-drinking as a way of life and what one should do, then to let go of that is to let go of the egos hold on right and wrong.

I'd fear that someone may take that quote as drinking while meditating = practice.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Kickle]
    #25683743 -

pretty much

if done using mindfulness, anything becomes practice, however that is the practice of making life into meditation (highly recommended) -


to get a grip on the practice, however, to begin to hone the skills of mindfulness, we do not start by introducing distraction making challenges. that is provided in everyday life.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25683758 -

:thumbup: nicely said red


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25683766 -

redgreenvines said:
it's my birthday, so, I letting you off the hook.

here is a nice poem from Leonard


So I must say it quickly:
Whoever is in your life,
those who harm you,
those who help you;
those whom you know
and those whom you do not know -
let them off the hook,
help them off the hook.
Recognize the hook.
You are listening to Radio Resistance.


Happy Belated Birthday!


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #25683823 -

thanks - have a great week all!

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25684149 -

laughingdog said:
There is no such 'thing' as "Buddhism",
'Pure land' buddhist practice is completely different from 'Zen' Buddhist practice.

Likewise with christianity:
Poison snake handlers in Texas hardly seem the same religion as say Benedictine monks.

Like wise with 'art'. Pop art and medieval  religious painting occurred in very different cultures, and had very different meanings and purposes. To call them both "art' is misleading.

But this is what ordinary language does, it overgeneralizes, which helps create a mindset, that allows debates over nothing, for those who like to pass their time "debating".

But don't let my 'pompous ivory tower intellectualism' stop you from enjoying the fray!


There is no such thing as "the united states." People in Georgia are completely different than people in Washington state. There is no such thing as "krypto2000". Krypto2000's ideas in the philosophy subforum are completely different from krypto2000's ideas in the pub.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: krypto2000]
    #25684482 -

yes, more complexity that is unable to be capably taken care of. goody.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25684831 -

akira_akuma said:
yes, more complexity that is unable to be capably taken care of. goody.


do you mean "dispensed with" or
"nurtured"


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25684838 -

i said what i meant. 'taken care of'. like a baby.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25685369 -

who's your mommy?

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25685716 -

you don't want to go there.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25685804 -


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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: krypto2000]
    #25686525 -

krypto2000 said:
laughingdog said:
There is no such 'thing' as "Buddhism",
'Pure land' buddhist practice is completely different from 'Zen' Buddhist practice.

Likewise with christianity:
Poison snake handlers in Texas hardly seem the same religion as say Benedictine monks.

Like wise with 'art'. Pop art and medieval  religious painting occurred in very different cultures, and had very different meanings and purposes. To call them both "art' is misleading.

But this is what ordinary language does, it overgeneralizes, which helps create a mindset, that allows debates over nothing, for those who like to pass their time "debating".

But don't let my 'pompous ivory tower intellectualism' stop you from enjoying the fray!


There is no such thing as "the united states." People in Georgia are completely different than people in Washington state. There is no such thing as "krypto2000". Krypto2000's ideas in the philosophy subforum are completely different from krypto2000's ideas in the pub.


tell that to the IRS who taxes the whole way beyond other socialist countries to make weapons and profits for private interest around the world


--------------------
They were dead before the ship sank!

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