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Problems with Buddhism?
    #25611343 -

3 genocides in the past 75 years,

history of unchecked violence,

simply rude.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25611354 -

as i know mods and others would ask for more about the second one, that's referring to Tibetan; which is lessened now some.

history of the Tibet is ridiculously violent.


Others; Zen and such are better for sure.

Should Zen simply separate itself?




--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25611399 -

Personally I think the admonishment to obey one's father or lose admittance to nirvana is laughable. (Link forthcoming: Didn't locate it but probably relevant to the Lotus Sutra, Bhakti and demerits)

Edited by Buster_Brown (11/13/18 11:20 AM)

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25611422 -

Hereditary obedience is the long-game of 'telephone,'

the game of telephone played over centuries.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25611445 -

Unquestioning obedience to a parent whose conduct appears to be grounded in jealousy, greed or perhaps even senility, will affect one's karma. Better to deny their commandments and offer reasons why.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25611472 -

A problem with filial piety is passages like this:

"Dharma Master must first, with a wholesome mind, study the rules of deportment, as well as sutras and moral codes of the Mahayana tradition, and understand their meanings in depth. Then, whenever novices come from afar to seek instruction, he should explain, in conformity with the Dharma, all the Bodhisattva renunciation practices, such as burning one’s body, arm, or finger as the ultimate act in the quest for Supreme Enlightenement. If a novice is not prepared to follow these practices as an offering to the Buddhas, he is not a Bodhisattva monk. Moreover, a Bodhisattva monk should be willing to sacrifice his body and limbs for starving beasts and hungry ghosts as the ultimate act of compassion in rescuing sentient beings" link

And...

"Once a disciple of the Buddha has settled down in a temple, if visiting Bodhisattva Bhikshu should arrive at the temple precints, the guest quarters established by the king, or even the summer retreat quarters, or the quarters of the Great Assembly, the disciple should welcome the visiting monks and see them off. He should provide them with such essentials as food and drink, a place to live, beds, chairs, and the like. If the host does not have the necessary means, he should be willing to pawn himself or cut off and sell his own flesh" (same link)

" I would rather be impaled for eons by hundreds of spears, than let this body, should it break the precepts, receive medications from the faithful"

Edited by Buster_Brown (11/13/18 09:20 AM)

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25611528 -

yeah, I've wondered why, the situation is and has been what it is and has been.

Taoism has always seemed much more wholesome.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25611548 -

Disregarding canonical interpretations, and recognizing wisdom as  constantly in flux, is probably the best thing a aspirant to Buddhism can do.

"  If a Bodhisattva hears externalists or evil-minded persons speak ill of, or disparage, the precepts of the Buddhas, he should feel as though his heart were pierced by three hundred spears, or his body stabbed with a thousand knives or thrashed with a thousand clubs. He would rather suffer in the hells himself for a hundred eons than hear evil beings disparage the precepts of the Buddha. How much worse it would be if the disciple were to break the precepts himself or incite others to do so! This is indeed an unfilial mind! Hence, if he violates the precepts intentionally, he commits a secondary offense"

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25611558 -

hahaha

crazy


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25611593 -

Tất cả mọi thứ đã thay đổi và sẽ không bao giờ ngừng thay đổi

All things have changed and will never cease to change.

Cuộc đời nay còn mai mất, biến chuyển không ngừng nghỉ. Thân con người cũng vậy, nó cũng là vô thường, nó cũng nằm trong định luật “Thành Trụ Hoại Không.” Thân ta phút trước không phải là thân ta phút sau. Khoa học đã chứng minh  rằng trong thân thể chúng ta, các tế bào luôn luôn thay đổi và cứ mỗi thời kỳ bảy năm  là các tế bào cũ hoàn toàn đổi mới. Sự thay đổi làm cho chúng ta mau lớn, mau  già và mau chết. Càng muốn sống bao nhiêu chúng ta lại càng sợ chết bấy nhiêu. Từ tóc xanh đến tóc bạc, đời người như một giấc mơ. Thế nhưng có nhiều người không chịu nhận biết ra điều nầy, nên họ cứ lao đầu vào cái thòng lọng tham ái; để rồi khổ vì tham dục, còn khổ hơn nữa vì tham lam ôm ấp bám víu  mãi vào sự vật, đôi khi đến chết mà vẫn chưa chịu buông bỏ. Đến khi biết sắp trút hơi thở cuối cùng mà vẫn còn luyến tiếc tìm cách nắm lại một cách tuyệt vọng

I used the translator.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25611817 -

Fortunately you do not have to cut any part of yourself to make up tasty morsels for your uninvited guests; there are many edible insects throughout the realms where pious filial Buddhists live.

As we now know, insects, grubs and spiders can make a very healthy meal - flavorful, chewy, and hearty.

Hospitality practice goes back beyond Abraham and his asian contemporaries.
It makes a lot of sense.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25611877 -

the very statement does not seem like anything Buddha would say.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? *DELETED* [Re: life is good]
    #25611890 -

(deleted; undeleted)

killing living beings of any kind is against Dharma,

but that doesn't stop the Dalai Lama.

https://www.celebitchy.com/26692/paul_mccartney_tells_dalai_lama_hes_wrong_to_eat_meat/

(here added)..

there have been a lot of scandals with Tibetan gurus -- it would seem apparent that the whole issue here is a significant factor.

to the unconnected -- and how strange it does sound --

he's considered an incarnation of Buddha

so, it makes a pretty difficult thing if he doesn't understand Buddhism.

And -- this isn't just that one issue; there's a lot of things.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25611894 -

but -- that is an off-topic aside.

main thing is- about those; it really doesn't seem like anything Buddha would say/ would have said.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25612035 -

Core Buddhism is generally considered to be the direct teachings of Buddha. Various aspects of Hinduism and regional polytheistic beliefs leaked into Buddhism after the Buddha's death. It's just humans being human.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25612044 -

Suppose I made thread about problems with ART
and pointed out that the Nazis and Communists
made bad politically motivated art that served as propaganda

would I actually have proved anything?

It has been said "Jesus was not a christian"
and
"Buddha was not a Buddhist"
and
"Freud" was not a Freudian"

Once the founder is gone
all kinds of sects are formed that argue

the joke goes:
God and the devil
are out taking a walk together when a man runs by
waving his arms and screaming:
"I have seen the truth. I have seen God."
God turns to the Devil and says 'you're in trouble now, aren't you?'
The Devil turns to God
smiles a great big smile
and says: 'No',
"I will help him organize."

Seems, Buddhism is no exception to the rule.
Seems, the question for the individual is always:
'can I find a part of it
that provides results
conductive to positive change in my life?'

Edited by laughingdog (11/13/18 12:51 PM)

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25612168 -

laughingdog said:
the question for the individual is always:
'can I find a part of it
that provides results
conductive to positive change in my life?'


If somebody up there is handing out demerits and preserving canonical law, it might seem plausible that I am now on their shit list.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good] * 1
    #25612511 -

I love how people love finding fault in Dalai Lama, what an agenda!!!

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25612580 -

HolY SHITTT


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #25615071 -

redgreenvines said:
I love how people love finding fault in Dalai Lama, what an agenda!!!


You mean you don't find it presumptuous of him when he says he forgives the Chinese,
when he was one of the lucky ones to get out and wasn't tortured?

You mean you don't find it presumptuous of him when he talks of reincarnation as a given fact? And tells us everyone was our mother in some distant previous life ! ! ! !

He certainly plays the role of a supreme authority, and as such does not deserve a free pass, or blind swallowing of everything he says, IMO.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25615363 -

Buddhism has nuances that are difficult to explain to outsiders- I'm sure the Dalai Lama doesn't believe people were their mother in a distant life- i'm sure you're de-contextualizing that.

response to below:

you are misunderstanding his dialectic. he isn't being literal.

Edited by akira_akuma (11/14/18 09:33 PM)

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25615390 -

nope, i did not 'decontextualize'

https://medium.com/braus-blog/reincarnation-the-vestigial-limb-of-buddhism-6f6c7cf49318

you have to scroll down a longways but here it is

"The Dali Lama explains universal loving-kindness using an ancient Tibetan meditative practice that suggests that through infinite rebirths you have been the mother to all beings and all beings have been your mother. Therefore, whenever you feel jealousy or anger or indifference towards another living being, practice with the notion that you were once that being’s mother and they were once yours in another life."

and it is in one of his books as well

Why would he expect folks to do something that goes so totally against common sense,
as to render it ineffective, if he didn't believe it himself?

I think
1) Tibetans believe this stuff and he has failed to adapt
2) he believes it ... (you know about about how they find Lamas..right?, this stuff permeates Tibetan culture)
3) you make excuses for him so he will fit the image you want of him

Edited by laughingdog (11/14/18 09:39 PM)

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #25615717 -

laughingdog said:
redgreenvines said:
I love how people love finding fault in Dalai Lama, what an agenda!!!


You mean you don't find it presumptuous of him when he says he forgives the Chinese,
when he was one of the lucky ones to get out and wasn't tortured?

You mean you don't find it presumptuous of him when he talks of reincarnation as a given fact? And tells us everyone was our mother in some distant previous life ! ! ! !

He certainly plays the role of a supreme authority, and as such does not deserve a free pass, or blind swallowing of everything he says, IMO.


His approach is a peaceful one.
progress is dependent upon peace.
Politics is obscuring murder and acquisitions, his politics is peacful, I am glad it is not Trumpish; he really is a better model. not perfect, but better than you or me.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25616132 -

Quote:
and it is in one of his books as well

Why would he expect folks to do something that goes so totally against common sense,
as to render it ineffective, if he didn't believe it himself?


he was just saying he wanted people to learn to be compassionate. :shrug:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #25616266 -

redgreenvines said:
better than you or me.


Objectively, the 'Better' script attracts the 'Bigger' stars to perform in it's production.

If "All the world is a stage" we might factor in the requirements of the players and the audience.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25616863 -

It is not harsh speech to say that he does not understand Buddhism.

To place someone above all others as perfect, can be a problem.

That becomes a problem and creates issues when they do something very contrary to the teaching.

If you view someone as God -- to Tibetans, Buddha is on a par with God.

Not simply, a great person who lived in the past, but the Creator and bestowed with all divine powers.

This should be understood.


In any case - if you view someone as Buddha / The Creator,

It is a problem if they are not.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25616877 -

You view him as peaceful; but according to Buddhism, killing animals will cause one to be reborn in hell.

I am not judging you or others for eating meat --

Most of my friends do.

Nor do I think that (killing animals etc.,), as mentioned,

There are many problems in Buddhism.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Rahz]
    #25616996 -

Rahz said:
It's just humans being human.


Nailed it.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #25616998 -

2,500 years is a long time to play the telephone game.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25617002 -

I would not say that's the case though.

Humans being humans is an infinity of things.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25617005 -

Children bring love and peace into the world;

As I've said before, they are more enlightened.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25617011 -

I get that you like him
and that he is better than Trump
(which is not a high standard)

My life experiences have lead me not to
respect any authority as infallible

I have stated my problems with the man's attitudes
and proclamations

Which lead me not to look to him for answers when there seem,
to be many other enlightened teachers today that are generous with teachings,
without all the very esoteric Tibetan Cultural baggage,
which combined Buddhism with the tibetan bon religion

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Bon-Tibetan-religion

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25617016 -

he is not holding the true reins to the religion. maybe he isn't making that obvious enough.

Edited by akira_akuma (11/23/18 12:30 AM)

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good] * 1
    #25617256 -

god is some mythic creator
buddha is not about myth or mysticism or creation - only what is-ness.

one is theological, while the other is not.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #25617996 -

redgreenvines said:
buddha is not about myth or mysticism or creation - only what is-ness.




Deity yoga (Tibetan: lha'i rnal 'byor; Sanskrit: Devata-yoga) is a practice of Vajrayana Buddhism involving identification with a chosen deity through visualisations and rituals...deity yoga is what separates Buddhist Tantra practice from the practice of other Buddhist schools.(1)

there is evidence of a cult of divine kingship, the kings being regarded as manifestations of the sky divinity (reformulated in Buddhism as the reincarnation of lamas) (2)

(1) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deity_yoga

(2) www.britannica.com/topic/Bon-Tibetan-religion

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #25618099 -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schools_of_Buddhism

“The classification and nature of various doctrinal, philosophical or cultural facets of the schools of Buddhism is vague and has been interpreted in many different ways, often due to the sheer number

(perhaps thousands)

of different sects, subsects, movements, etc. that have made up or currently make up the whole of Buddhist traditions.”
———————————————
http://infomory.com/numbers/number-of-christian-denominations/

There are about 34,000 different Christian groups in the world since AD 30. This is according to the World Christian Encyclopedia published in 2001. 1,200 different Christian denominations exist in the United States alone. Some groups classify Christianity into 8 meta-groups, namely Roman Catholicism (the largest), Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy and Assyrian Churches, Protestantism, Restorationism, Anglican Communicants, Pentecostal, and others.

Some Christians in the USA are poison snake handlers

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=+Christians+%2C+USA+%2Cpoison+snake+handlers&t=h_&ia=web

using them to make statements about all Christians would be silly would it not?

same principle applies elsewhere , does it not?

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #25618168 -

The climate of secrecy forestalls consideration of facts:

"In Vajrayāna particularly, Tibetan Buddhists subscribe to a voluntary code of self-censorship, whereby the uninitiated do not seek and are not provided with information about it. This self-censorship may be applied more or less strictly depending on circumstances such as the material involved. A depiction of a mandala may be less public than that of a deity. That of a higher tantric deity may be less public than that of a lower. The degree to which information on Vajrayāna is now public in western languages is controversial among Tibetan Buddhists."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_Buddhism#Practices

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25618202 -

laughingdog said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schools_of_Buddhism

“The classification and nature of various doctrinal, philosophical or cultural facets of the schools of Buddhism is vague and has been interpreted in many different ways, often due to the sheer number

(perhaps thousands)

of different sects, subsects, movements, etc. that have made up or currently make up the whole of Buddhist traditions.”
———————————————
http://infomory.com/numbers/number-of-christian-denominations/

There are about 34,000 different Christian groups in the world since AD 30. This is according to the World Christian Encyclopedia published in 2001. 1,200 different Christian denominations exist in the United States alone. Some groups classify Christianity into 8 meta-groups, namely Roman Catholicism (the largest), Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy and Assyrian Churches, Protestantism, Restorationism, Anglican Communicants, Pentecostal, and others.

Some Christians in the USA are poison snake handlers

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=+Christians+%2C+USA+%2Cpoison+snake+handlers&t=h_&ia=web

using them to make statements about all Christians would be silly would it not?

same principle applies elsewhere , does it not?


Inferring that a claimant is 'Silly' is silly because other factors may be in play. lol

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25618219 -

life is good said:
Humans being humans is an infinity of things.


It's actually the complete opposite of that.

Humans are pretty goddamn predictable, within a certain set of variables.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25618314 -

laughingdog said:
nope, i did not 'decontextualize'

https://medium.com/braus-blog/reincarnation-the-vestigial-limb-of-buddhism-6f6c7cf49318

you have to scroll down a longways but here it is

"The Dali Lama explains universal loving-kindness using an ancient Tibetan meditative practice that suggests that through infinite rebirths you have been the mother to all beings and all beings have been your mother. Therefore, whenever you feel jealousy or anger or indifference towards another living being, practice with the notion that you were once that being’s mother and they were once yours in another life."

and it is in one of his books as well

Why would he expect folks to do something that goes so totally against common sense,
as to render it ineffective, if he didn't believe it himself?

I think
1) Tibetans believe this stuff and he has failed to adapt
2) he believes it ... (you know about about how they find Lamas..right?, this stuff permeates Tibetan culture)
3) you make excuses for him so he will fit the image you want of him


right.

it's a doctrine;
not very effective.

The Tamil Genocide by Sri Lanka: The Global Failure to Protect Tamil Rights is book by Francis Boyle on the final stages of the Sri Lankan Civil War and its alleged war crimes.[1][2] World without Genocide [3] The United Nations, which has acknowledged its calamitous failures under the Responsibility to Protect — R2P, a doctrine that Canada was pivotal in establishing — is still trying to tally the numbers and apportion the blame, four years on: 40,000 to 70,000 civilians killed over five months of the final conflagration, the number the UN now accepts, though many argue the figure is far higher

Sri Lanka is 70% .



http://www.genocidewatch.org/srilanka.html

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/27/sri-lanka-wants-the-world-to-forget-about-justice-for-war-victims-please-dont</font>


most people care if even 1 person they love is killed.
</font>


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25618338 -

from Gen watch;

Tamil paper Uthayan attacked in northern Sri Lanka
BBC News Asia
03 April 2013

Masked men in northern Sri Lanka have attacked the offices of a Tamil newspaper and beaten its staff.
The owner of the pro-opposition Uthayan paper said six masked men entered the building in Kilinochchi before dawn.
Two members of staff were badly injured and property damaged, he said.
It is the fourth time this year that Tamil-language newspapers or their distributors have been attacked in Sri Lanka, which is one of the world's most dangerous countries for journalists.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25618502 -

if we take Islamic religion
sufism is very different

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sufism+dervishes&t=h_&iax=images&ia=images

from both mainstream Muslim practice
and Jihadists

If we take Christianity
the snake handlers are very different
from the European medieval monks who illuminated sacred manuscripts
who are different from American evangelists
who are different from the crusaders
who are very different from the Mormons
and the Jones town followers
and abusive Catholic priests

In the case of Buddhism
there is now scientific evidence
from studying the brainwaves of advanced practitioners
and from mindfulness practice in USA hospitals having numerous benefits for ordinary folks with only short term practice

Are there some questionable doctrines in some of the hundreds of sects? Of  course.
Have there been some wars? Yes.
Are some of the ancient texts obscure? Yes
Were Zen teachings used by the violent samurai in Japan? Yes.
and so on.

So it would seem, the old adages apply
“don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater”
but DO, “separate the wheat from the chaff”

Buddhism (& to a lesser degree some yoga & taoist practices) seem(s) unique among so called ‘religions’ in having methodologies that have survived for 2500 years, and are shown scientifically to have merit, and have helped millions.

It is of course always tempting to ‘throw the baby out with the water’, as its quick and saves us the bother of learning something new, but we have a choice.

As the success of secular mindfulness practice in the USA, shows part of the core, of buddhist practice has already been winnowed, without throwing out the baby.
(mixed metaphors (like mixed drinks) maybe more fun).

The part that is not emphasized by this stripping down is the not so popular teaching of: ‘non-self’. However this teaching hardly lends itself to any sort of abuse, and is easily ‘discovered’ in readily available free texts and easily investigated by the individual without them feeling pressured by any threats of hell. And the meditation works, as regards some benefits, even without it.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good] * 1
    #25618530 -

life is good said:
I would not say that's the case though.

Humans being humans is an infinity of things.


The point is, violence isn't something the Buddha proscribed but because Buddhists are human they're capable of violence. Apply Murphy's Law.

Right action generally relates to non-violence. There is the concept of Ahimsa. There is the concept of Dharma contrasting with Samsara/Karma. A person with karma (which I assume is most monks) is capable of violence of some sort. If monks are partaking in organized violence, bullying, etc. that reflects badly on the sect, but not necessarily on the Buddha himself.

I think Buddha gave up on nirvana when he took the bowl of goat's milk. He became a bodhisattva. Even the Buddha is capable of some mischief.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25618543 -

ok let's judge all Christianity by snake handlers
or not
because it is really stupid to use that kind of logic.

and so is judging Buddhism by referencing Tibetan deities, which indicates that Tibetan Buddhism is like other shamanic cults with extra stuff added, along with central Buddhist sutras wedged in as well, like the prajna paramita etc. which would make sense in any shamanic cult.


Also the yellow hat school whence Dalai Lama emerges is the least shamanic of them all - yet it remains tolerant of ancient local shamanic lore.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good] * 1
    #25618604 -

I think one thing that separates Buddhism from some other religious traditions is that it prescribes that the individual discover herself what it is all about, rather than being made to discover it through clerical intermediaries. No doubt though, as laughingdog points out, there have historically been many institutional developments that are less than copacetic, but that need not force us to throw the baby out with the bathwater, as it were.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25618980 -

life is good said:
from Gen watch;

Tamil paper Uthayan attacked in northern Sri Lanka
BBC News Asia
03 April 2013

Masked men in northern Sri Lanka have attacked the offices of a Tamil newspaper and beaten its staff.
The owner of the pro-opposition Uthayan paper said six masked men entered the building in Kilinochchi before dawn.
Two members of staff were badly injured and property damaged, he said.
It is the fourth time this year that Tamil-language newspapers or their distributors have been attacked in Sri Lanka, which is one of the world's most dangerous countries for journalists.


you are being naive.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25619112 -

Quote:
The Tamil Genocide by Sri Lanka: The Global Failure to Protect Tamil Rights is book by Francis Boyle on the final stages of the Sri Lankan Civil War and its alleged war crimes.[1][2] World without Genocide [3] The United Nations, which has acknowledged its calamitous failures under the Responsibility to Protect — R2P, a doctrine that Canada was pivotal in establishing — is still trying to tally the numbers and apportion the blame, four years on: 40,000 to 70,000 civilians killed over five months of the final conflagration, the number the UN now accepts, though many argue the figure is far higher



what why how?

what is your take?


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #25619159 -

DividedQuantum said:
I think one thing that separates Buddhism from some other religious traditions is that it prescribes that the individual discover herself what it is all about, rather than being made to discover it through clerical intermediaries. No doubt though, as laughingdog points out, there have historically been many institutional developments that are less than copacetic, but that need not force us to throw the baby out with the bathwater, as it were.


It looks good on paper.  Not so much in practice.

One issue about Dalai Lama's (and other Tibetans) eating meat

how can they correct genocidal Buddhists then?

Rohingyas to be repatriated despite UN genocide warning

Rohingya genocide is still going on, says top UN investigator

Genocide is still taking place against Rohingya Muslims remaining in Myanmar



--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25619190 -

Quote:
what why how?

what is your take?


the regions been warring for longer than you are giving credit for. the UN doesn't know shit fuck all about how to stop age-old wars between old tribal conflicts.

Quote:
you think genocide is therefore ok?

just because people hate each other?


literally no one is saying that.

Edited by akira_akuma (11/16/18 03:56 PM)

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25619196 -

you think genocide is therefore ok?

just because people hate each other?


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good] * 1
    #25620183 -

focus on the issues at home where you have genocide brewing as we speak

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25620532 -

rofl.

"non whites are demons"

redgreenvines said:
good education


"earth elves descended from moon elves"

redgreenvines said:
good education


etc.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25620875 -

a few things stand out about this thread
just like many social media threads

1) a supposedly horrible / controversial topic is chosen
that is bound to effect some folks emotionally

2) an over generalization is made

3) the OPs position is defended
obstinately in spite of all rational
clarifications

On this board we see the same thing
in the thread called:
"Occult, racist - Waldorf schools"
(where the the position is only abandoned when the OP is forced to be specific)
AND
in the thread called:
"Am I lucky for being Caucasian?"
where 'race'
is the supposedly
horrible / controversial topic that instigates emotions

based on this, there is no point in pursuing the topic
intelligently

4) at this point often folks who don't want to start a thread of their own
either find something on an old page, in the thread, to argue with
or attempt some humor
or post something nonsensical or ambiguous if they have a habit of wanting to be the last poster

none of which changes the waste of time,
in discussing something with someone
who has already made up their mind
and thus has a different agenda

If threads are observed without reacting emotionally,
to supposedly upsetting topics
the same pattern will be seen again and again
regardless of the supposed topic
in many places on the web

these patterns may shed some light on this
Social media use increases depression and loneliness, study finds
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/11/181108164316.htm

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25620995 -

you just follow where the sludge flows?

do you have any comprehension that genocide is currently happening

in the world,

right now.

do you think constant negativity, casting aspersions on those who are talking about this, is a good thing?

erm. sorry. obviously. yes


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25620998 -

just because you say something,

doesn't make it true.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25620999 -

and yes,

there is joy in buddhism.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25621000 -

just do a search


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #25621036 -

laughingdog said:
Social media use increases depression and loneliness, study finds



Personally I'd be lonelier without it, and I've seen testimony to the contrary, but maybe that's because the subjects in the study are students who are immersed in campus life and are failing to find an escape online.

From the link: "...designed their experiment to include the three platforms most popular with a cohort of undergraduates, "

The study is focused on students.

Edited by Buster_Brown (11/17/18 01:33 PM)

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #25623203 -

actually I resent buddhism same as I resent all religions - particularly for the effect on making a tribe or nation type group out of followers.

I prefer secular regulation in which the belief is one that embraces all of humanity and tolerates all religions.

Our sacred duty if there is one is to take care of each other and the planet.

I leave it to those religions to figure out how they can be more tolerant of each other.


what I have appreciated about buddhism specifically is the practice of insight meditation.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25623298 -

"earth elves descended from moon elves"

about as realistic as peace on earth, and humans that "just love and get along just cause we shake a magic wand"

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25623540 -

redgreenvines said:
I prefer secular regulation in which the belief is one that embraces all of humanity and tolerates all religions. /quote]
Does not Buddhism do this?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #25623580 -

to redgreenvines, Buddhists have to surrender to the malcontent of the land who want to replace them....to be 'peaceful enough'

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25623940 -

Ergo, his baad heir reigns.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25624147 -

I would have to shave it

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25624411 -

Buddhism should have some valid thoughts about God, Gods, The way.. science/physics.. economics.. technology.. biology chemestry etc..

Prophets, saints just like monks and nuns..


--------------------
Thank you for your Time...

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: BrendanFlock] * 1
    #25624517 -

Could Samson's pillars be derived from the Fisher-King's wound in Arthurian legend?

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #25624847 -

BrendanFlock said:
Buddhism should have some valid thoughts about God, Gods, The way.. science/physics.. economics.. technology.. biology chemestry etc..

Prophets, saints just like monks and nuns..


In modern buddhism, most people do not practice meditation but they have kept their old local gods

the buddhist word for god is god
essentially it is mental phenomena, culture, social activity.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25625400 -

the basic requirement is to not kill; not partake in killing.

to make all beings happy is important;

without discrimination.


people can seem disconnected... from the results - if they can't feel the...

it's not easy.

and there is communal difficulties --


Mass inertia;

if most everyone in Bangladesh wants to send refugees back to where genocide occurred;

this is a mass of inertia; how can we help?


Please take time to view this from a non-discrimiating view.

No one is threatening you.

If we ignore genocide, it's not the best path.


By non-discrimiating I mean impartial, steadfast in peace;

Which does not mean disinterested,

Care based in steadfast peace.

Why to care? because they

are our family; all of us.

Peace and best.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25625435 -

Quote:
most people do not practice meditation


do you have any source or reason for saying this?

Quote:
the buddhist word for god is god


There is no logic or reason in this.

Quote:
essentially





























sanskrit




peace and love,
have a good day.
blessings and love.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25625882 -

I've found one useful aspect of Buddhism is discovering how I disturb myself.

I have many methods!

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25626016 -

If you want to drum up support to help stop genocide, you got it.

I think your views about Buddhism are not correct, Focusing on politics in Burma and blaming buddhism is the same as looking at Nazi Germany and modern day USA and blaming Christianity.

Most Christian countries have at one time or another practiced genocide or at least life threatening discrimination.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good] * 2
    #25626021 -

It strikes me that having a problem with Buddhism, as a methodology of practice rather than a blind faith, would likely point more to ones commitment to hard living for a greater good, rather than ones view of a greater good.

I've studied many things in my life, and to 'have a problem' with Buddhism, thereby negating the 'problems' of the world at large, suggests many things to me.

Nearly all of them not very healthy. Wanna have a problem with something worthwhile putting effort into solving?

Have a problem with your preconditioned mindstate.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #25628370 -

Understanding why I label some things "problems" helps me immensely.

I invent problems.        I'm an inventor!

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #25628692 -

Spinning tops, aren't usually symmetrical, experience friction, slight wobble. Maybe even random fluctuations at the quantum level. None of which are generally seen as perfect. Usually seen as less than perfect. Understanding and possibly change is sought, but where is the symmetry, the frictionless state? It is simply an imagination? From where in this imperfect world would an imagination of perfection come from? Is it a true sight? What's that angel doing on my shoulder?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Rahz]
    #25628954 -

So can I summarize Buddhism in this way?

I am moral..and believe only and have faith in moral actions and thoughts?


--------------------
Thank you for your Time...

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #25628959 -

What is a Buddhist view of thought forms..and thought loops...or strings?

Or thought crime and obsessive compulsive disorder?

People can't really control the way they think...because thinking is a reaction to the external world..


--------------------
Thank you for your Time...

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #25629051 -

BrendanFlock said:
So can I summarize Buddhism in this way?

I am moral..and believe only and have faith in moral actions and thoughts?


No.

BrendanFlock said:
thinking is a reaction to the external world..


Yes, but like all reactions it can be tamed, modified and improved.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #25629934 -

BrendanFlock said:
What is a Buddhist view of thought forms..


The Buddhist view, goes roughly like this:

thoughts are content,
but the context is awareness.

objects are content,
space is context.
and we can easily see that space is unaffected by objects
thus context is unaffected by content
thus
awareness is unaffected by thoughts

thoughts belong to a class of phenomenon (happenings)
called perceptions
which include:
thoughts (internal imagery & talk), feelings (both physical sensations & emotions), memories, various external sense phenomenon...etc
none of which affect awareness which is the context in which they occur.

Of what significance is this?

As a result, not taking thoughts so seriously or personally may be of more value, than trying to control them or make them positive. Others better versed in the subject, have written whole books, free pdfs,  and given lectures freely available on the web, on the subject, so that's enough from me, for now. Hope it clarified the matter a little.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25630959 -

If that's the view of Buddhism than I think it does have problems.

The problem I see, to use your terminology, is that the contents tend to be borderline horrific in many ways and for many people. If context doesn't give a rip because it is unaffected, then the contents can continue getting shittier and shittier with impunity. That IMO is a problem.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Kickle]
    #25631007 -

yes, but that's literally Nature. that's what Buddha originally was explaining.

the Nature of reality.

https://www.minds.com/CynicalBastard/blog/the-transcendent-alchemical-stage-884939291305603072

it is Architectonic and Iconic, on top of Conceptual and Conditioned (Contingent -- think of vibrations ringing out from a radio tower, one pings of another, and starts it up, and on down the line, we have a connection of contingent effects- this is what is posited in the everlasting effects of the Architectonic unto the Iconic - that is, when in the "spiritual" "religious" world - and the "Conceptual unto the Contingent" - or that, that which is inferred 'from below', topologically, ie, ranges of ideas that are in their physical form.

it's a recycling process of effects, in the Vedic tradition, and Buddha is merely the...erm...Luciferian aspect of that tradition.

it's just...an attempt at sussing the truth of reality and the nature of it.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25631455 -

What's the difference between seperation and Holism..? Is it nothing..? I have a crazy craving for future speak here..

How do Buddhists deal with emotional cosms.. and existential angst... and deterministic materialism.. or even mixing in idealism..


--------------------
Thank you for your Time...

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #25631458 -

So isn't the goal of Buddhism cessation of suffering?

And if so.. is that the same as moral objectivity?


--------------------
Thank you for your Time...

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #25631503 -

the 'moral object' (of transmission) is the sina qua non to the ne plus ultra of 'liberation'.

in otherwords. speak. but do not lose yourself in words. act, but do not act in vain. think, but do not think ignorantly. be, and understand becoming.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25632213 -

not just understanding of becoming,
but engaging directly with the moment - thus conditioning the unconditioned with habits that mitigate hatred, greed and delusion.


In this way mind is both the embryo of the moral self and the uterus for it's development


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Kickle]
    #25632930 -

Kickle said:
If that's the view of Buddhism than I think it does have problems.

The problem I see, to use your terminology, is that the contents tend to be borderline horrific in many ways and for many people. If context doesn't give a rip because it is unaffected, then the contents can continue getting shittier and shittier with impunity. That IMO is a problem.


your thinking seems unclear:

is space to blame for the fact that you approve of some objects but not others?
is space to blame for war, or can it take credit for flowers?
Is space responsible for the horrors of the world?
Would any sensible person  assume space should be responsible, for objects (that arise, persist for awhile, and then decay and transform) within it?

likewise, is listening to blame for screams or can it take credit for whispers of love?
likewise, is listening responsible....
etc.

like space and listening, awareness is also  context
Awareness is the background or context for all of our experience.
Without awareness nothing can be experienced.
And like space and listening the same questions can be asked:
Is awareness responsible... to blame ... can it take credit...?

In every case it is clear that the background or context is not responsible for its foreground, contents, or objects / phenomenon / perceptions

....Awareness is not something Buddhism invented.

...Although we usually focus on objects and not the space around them,
objects can only exist because of space.
This is simply a fact, we can do nothing about.
....Likewise nothing can be experienced without awareness, but we usually
focus on our perceptions, and not the context of awareness in which they occur.
...Buddhism, and meditation simply reveal this fact.
...It may usually be ignored because we tend to focus on what we find tangible, concrete, or representable by nouns, rather than the abstract and intangible context. ....That everything we know and can touch is dependent on something less substantial, seems counter intuitive. We are used to the idea that we get stronger by lifting weights for example, so the idea that something weaker, is more fundamental, than what appears stronger, brighter, & heavier etc. seems against common sense.


But It turns out to be useful to recognize the truth that the more abstract is more fundamental,
And It turns out to be useful to recognize the truth, that awareness is unaffected by perceptions.
As best I can explain it, at the moment, it goes something like this:
....What we usually take to be our identity
is in fact content & not context.
....However, 'ever present context' (space does not come and go like the objects within it)
(and awareness does not come and go with each passing thought and feeling and sensation - and in meditation we slow down enough to observe this process meticulously)
...So what we usually take to be our identity (the story of our life, feelings, gender, role, etc.) is subject to impermanence, unwanted changes, and stress)
.....Whereas the context we ignore ( awareness) is by comparison at peace, as it is unaffected by content. (So this truth turns out to have a positive side)
....So once a shift is made to recognizing the possibility of resting in awareness, suffering is reduced. At least according to some teachers of meditation.

By the way there is no terminology here that is mine. Les Fehmi uses the terms 'context' and 'content', when explaining 'Open Focus', and they maintain their usual meaning.
He takes nuances of attention much further than I do, in this basic attempt at clarification. It is is perhaps of interest that he has a background in both biofeedback and meditation and that the terminology is secular.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #25632992 -

you're trying to suss a subsistence cult. how luciferian of you. yes, we know that we have to deal with objects as they come and go, and that's one facet of Buddhism.

you can't blame them in their geography for wanting an 'out' from the 'remainder' of this plain and simple fact of 'impermanence'.

it's a solely 'inner' journey, meant to be conveyed only by the 'noble'. most people don't realize that, because particular schools compartmentalized and then modified the original meaning of the doctrine of awakening, which was an endeavor to provide a path from ceaselessness and from condescension (lies, in otherwords, misleading paths) to find an exit. not to embrace 'the ways of the world', but to erase the subsistence on it. in it's petrifaction, it became worldly and devout to the world, henceforth relying on subsistence, instead (as opposed to the 'enlightenment for the noblest path'), the teachers were conformed to a way allowing those with more worldly-acclaim for their bodies, and the life, because the "teachings" were thusly offered to more people, perverting the way- like with most religions, off to a good start then, the reliance on the 'light of reason' is what is left to suffice, to those who do not wish to understand the origins- and whereabouts now- of the ideas and practices from the mouths of the original teachers. this is why in the Eastern religions, and 'paths' of sorts that understand how to comprehend this 'reasoning', that is, without having to be told where to hear these 'silent tones' [because if you're told they were silent, and thought that was literal, you'd never know of them; sort of like being told there is a God but having no personal relationship with that God; or even more so, like having one of those relationships, but having it based on a dogmatic source that has only convinced people to stray from those 'occult' facets within, for the sake of controlling their very souls]; and these 'tones' are a 'transmission' meaning, anagogically, that 'what is transmitted is received'- not just in the literal sense, but that, also- it can also belay the moral standing of the grounds of most religions' origins (found in etymology/philology, but also as well in dogma, as well, but this is where the 'secular' is introduced, and changes the message of 'transmission' into, much differently, a prison), and metaphorically speaking, that is, analogically to the spiritual notion, and literal notion, the 'transmission' of the 'doctrine' by way of 'moral conviction' or vindication, speaks not only of the "truth" of the matter, but also the notion of how one is to 'spark' such transmission, that is to say, the notion that one 'sparks' these 'transmissions' in 'succession', through 'lineage', to 'keep the way' -- otherwise, known in Buddhism, specifically, as "Dharma", viz, the the Buddha's non-karmic, non-samsaric, Dharma (not the normative brahminical "dharma", per se; but a different and absolute sort) -- and this all highlights the notion that this was done for the sake of "truth", and not for the sake of a "school of thought" - hence the doctrinal standard is set high for what is effectively a Luciferian 'spark', like Yeshua, and like Isaaic, like the "Old Ones", it is "handed down" not from a dogma, but from 'transmission'. it is 'found'.

as if gold fetched from the deep sea.

Edited by akira_akuma (11/22/18 05:59 PM)

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25633022 -

Would you say your post pertains to the exoteric v. esoteric dichotomy?


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #25633199 -

esoteric. the exoteric can hardly inform anyone of truth.

i mean, the old doctrine is long aged, and the notion of refusing to keep it to small monastic group is essentially a breach of the original doctrine. i mean, Buddha apparently let the school grow, but it wasn't suppose to be a "invite for all, get your enlightening here" situation, for everyone.

thing is, it's not a "left hand path" just as it isn't a "right hand path" (in eastern schools this is simply referred to as Orthodoxy, and then on the left-hand, Heterodoxy), it's the middle path, meaning it accepts the doctrinal Vedic teachings place, in History, but concludes it's not real path to enlightenment. so Buddhism posits not that Brahman is the supreme reality and godhead (in Shiva incarnate, whatever be the case from whatever time- even in the time where Agni was worshiped), but instead, that there is 'more'.

it goes into territory that is practically kabbalic (in form, not so much function), with the conclusion being that the "supreme reality" isn't "Brahman" but instead is beyond it, and is "everything and nothing", and even still beyond that -- to put it frankly, and simply.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25633383 -

akira_akuma said:
you're trying to suss a subsistence cult. how luciferian of you. yes, we know that we have to deal with objects as they come and go, and that's one facet of Buddhism. ….


You seem to write in a great flurry of inspiration, but without editing or taking the time to reread. So I wonder if you really know, if what you write matches your thoughts. And I wonder whether you test your thoughts to see if they 'pass muster'. To me it all seems confusing and hard to read.

You pile so many generalities on top of each other that no clear meaning seems to emerge.
For example:
Do you really think I'm trying to form a cult?
Do you really think I'm devilish?
(That my post provoked this hostility, on your part seems a little odd.)
What does it mean to say: “we have to deal with objects”, that we don't already know  & how is that relevant, to Vipassana or mindfulness practice?

“you can't blame them in their geography for wanting an 'out' from the 'remainder' of this plain and simple fact of 'impermanence’.”

...In the above sentence who does ’them’ refer to? and what is their “geography”? And who or what wants to escape 'impermanence’?

...Hypnotic language is often built with unspecified parts. The way you write makes use of the same sort of structure (or lack of structure). I wonder: are you hypnotizing yourself or hoping to affect others in some ‘poetic’ ways?

...Here are some references to what is meant by unspecified parts in hypnotic language. It is a documented phenomenon and not something I made up.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=hypnotic+language%2C+unspecified&t=h_&ia=web

...As far as I’m concerned, 'it goes without saying', you are of course free to write in anyway you wish, but if you really intend to reply to me, in regards, to meditation techniques and explanations used by experts to help those suffering from stress, in hospitals and clinical situations, it seems rather an odd style to adopt.
...I make no claims to being smart or original, I have simply spent a lot of time studying the matter from many perspectives, and enjoy trying to clarify some of the subtle points (of well established meditation principles and practices) for myself, as well as others. There are many similarities across teachers, traditions, and methods. In many ways for example Tibetan Buddhism is different from what Eckhart Tolle teaches,- that is if we focus on externals - yet there are core similarities. I have no interest in some of the odd practices, of some odd sects, or trying to defend some arbitrary position in regards to some arbitrarily chosen definition of "Buddhism".
...My interest is in  those aspects of meditation ( and the understandings on which those practices are based) that are consistent across various places and times and clinically proven to have positive results.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25633411 -

the opposite of being hypnotized by language, and thought

step by step into experiencing

Eckhart Tolle - The Journey Into Now -


Edited by laughingdog (11/22/18 10:48 PM)

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25633487 -

no, you are assuming all of this

Quote:
You seem to write in a great flurry of inspiration, but without editing or taking the time to reread.


Quote:
You pile so many generalities on top of each other that no clear meaning seems to emerge.



both of these statements are flat out wrong. firstly, yes, inspiration, no-editing, no, that's wrong. no rereading, no, that's wrong. Everything is grammatically correct, and spelt correctly. (i don't worry about capitalising everything, or else i'd take forever to get my thoughts out, but you never mind that) -- and secondly, no meaning emerges? well, you should at least understand how to infer what is in from out, if you meditate on forms, but even if you meditate on the formless- you should know what 'objects' are. you should know what precedes the "space", if you are one to discuss what one 'sees' (or hears) or comprehends in meditation. :shrug:

Quote:
Do you really think I'm trying to form a cult?
Do you really think I'm devilish?
(That my post provoked this hostility, on your part seems a little odd.)


oy.

you are misinformed what "luciferian" means'. it's not 'devilish'.

Quote:
the opposite of being hypnotized by language, and thought

step by step into experiencing



funny, i was talking about doing the same thing. only i'm giving you the keys. i've read Power Of Now. it's literally an instruction manual on how to hypnotize yourself. what do you think experiencing is?

it's being.

by manifesting, objects, or questions/answers, you are being.

there is only everything right being Luciferian. those who think it wrong are misapprehending what being a 'light-bearer' means. it's certainly nothing devilish. it's exactly like that that you propound you're managing to achieve the concordance of, but without speech (might i add, your addresses here do very little in the way of showing me you have any place to speak on someone's 'delivery'. you often speak in vague terms, yourself, and with grandiloquent aspect, only without the sesquipedalian inflection) -- only the answer you have given to your own propounding is a video on Eckhart Tolle. wow.

ancient knowledge, you've been trumped by Eckhart Tolle.

:smile:

Quote:
“we have to deal with objects”, that we don't already know  & how is that relevant, to Vipassana or mindfulness practice?


do you Zen? do you object-oriented philosophy, bro? (damn, probably not)

but yeah...ZEN

and from the Vipassana, of course "objects" would refer to "thought-forms" (gods, angels, demons, ect) and other such "fetters" of existence.

Quote:
...In the above sentence who does ’them’ refer to? and what is their “geography”? And who or what wants to escape 'impermanence’?


i'll spell it out for you, dude.

their geography is very prone to the culture they partake in, and that which grew along that region. due to the regions sparse densities (due to chaste and the ways in which settlements are built, and governance handled), monasticism has always been common - and since it's a very old culture (and the substrata even older still), it's handled [via old laws] as a "subsistence" culture, like i said, but a very 'grown' one...as in 'big'...and thus it has an emphasis on "sufferance" like most "big cultures" at around the time/era, that these cultures start popping up- at around the time monotheism is picking up, in the east of Asia [that's old timey geography]--).

and who wants to escape impermanence? lol

the entire religion is about the very task. :facepalm: regardless of 'technique' (which the Buddha only laid out for very few to comprehend, themselves, because it's pointless to disturb the mind with more than just the outline given, espoused as such, because of this reason,- the reason being that most people won't comprehend it and will not be able to assert themselves properly, so hence, guidelines were given, and discourses, in order to help focus the mind of the practitioner.

Quote:
...Hypnotic language is often built with unspecified parts. The way you write makes use of the same sort of structure (or lack of structure). I wonder: are you hypnotizing yourself or hoping to affect others in some ‘poetic’ ways?


just the same when you talk with your particular inflections, styles (in writing- very important) and, of course, your idiosyncratic use of syntax and clauses -- very neuralgic reading to me, in the sense that it's minimalized (like most structured "dialogue"; while i prefer the "discursive" style), and very... lugubrious, and not cloying [i would say my style can be cloying], but more like... waxy and lutarious].

and in the original, and in most, Buddhist discourse, there is ALWAYS repetition, in fact, there is a distinct flair for it...and you...so i don't know why you'd...ya know...be against the notion (as if that's what i was doing; but you did say something about 'hypnotism' and well, that's kinda how "changing your mind" works on the purely 'teaching' level. what is Active in Buddhist thought, like in most traditions [but the emphasis is heavy in Buddhism], the knowledge must be "transmitted" to be known in full, and not just in theory or some grounded rationale, that has no basis in experience.)

Quote:
...Here are some references to what is meant by unspecified parts in hypnotic language. It is a documented phenomenon and not something I made up.


hey, laughingdog....


POW-ER-OF-NOW

Quote:
...As far as I’m concerned, 'it goes without saying', you are of course free to write in anyway you wish, but if you really intend to reply to me, in regards, to meditation techniques and explanations used by experts to help those suffering from stress, in hospitals and clinical situations, it seems rather an odd style to adopt.


i didn't realize this thread was solely for the purposes of clinical practices like therapy. :shrug: and of course, you realize i'll reply how i wish, to whom i wish, as well. i'm not going to start talk clinical situations unless prompted to. imagine like i'm an ai...now imagine that i'm not an ai, and not a mindreader, and that this thread isn't actually just about clinical practice concerning meditation practices (not even the real concern of Buddhism, anyway...meditation is more of Vedanta school, or maybe Chinese Tradition....

Quote:
...I make no claims to being smart or original, I have simply spent a lot of time studying the matter from many perspectives, and enjoy trying to clarify some of the subtle points (of well established meditation principles and practices) for myself, as well as others. There are many similarities across teachers, traditions, and methods. In many ways for example Tibetan Buddhism is different from what Eckhart Tolle teaches,- that is if we focus on externals - yet there are core similarities. I have no interest in some of the odd practices, of some odd sects, or trying to defend some arbitrary position in regards to some arbitrarily chosen definition of "Buddhism".


you can focus on "meditation principals" (this is that idiosyncratic language again; you mean, "clinical practice in the use of meditation techniques"?) -- i'll comment about the original doctrine as espoused by a teacher. you can make all the claims you want to my "inauthenticity" and your "license" (your figurative "profession"- which to me, isn't really more than "charm", considering this thread isn't about clinicians trying to pass off spiritual practice as medicine? or is it? i dunno.)

Quote:
...My interest is in  those aspects of meditation ( and the understandings on which those practices are based) that are consistent across various places and times and clinically proven to have positive results.


understanding what Buddhism is about beyond what has been extricated from it, in medical practice, is one entirely different ballgame, and notionally, much more "enlightening". literally. but hey, no one ever said you "should" do anything.

Quote:
....Awareness is not something Buddhism invented.


of course not, Buddhism is a response and reaction to the Vedic schools.

Edited by akira_akuma (11/23/18 01:05 AM)

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25633680 -

laughingdog said:
Is space responsible for the horrors of the world?



Maybe? I don't know on this. Do you? If you know the origin of horror fill us in.

laughingdog said:Would any sensible person  assume space should be responsible, for objects (that arise, persist for awhile, and then decay and transform) within it?


Sure. Because it enables the groundwork to do so. It's not as innocent as you are making out. It isn't independent from the objects within it. Without the objects there is no space, without space there are no objects. They are entwined. So to say space has no part in this is incorrect IMO.

Quote:
laughingdog said:
likewise, is listening to blame for screams or can it take credit for whispers of love?




I wouldn't say blame, but yes, in part. If someone watches 'Keeping Up With the Kardashians' all day long and then sees the world through that lens, listening was part of that process. One can choose to walk away and not listen or watch that garbage. Passively listening and feeling helpless because listening just listens, is BS. Listening is entwined with the activities of the listener.

laughingdog said:
Without awareness nothing can be experienced.



Without experience, nothing is aware.

laughingdog said:
Is awareness responsible... to blame ... can it take credit...?



As much as anything. Personally I'm unclear on how much control any of us have. And so it's difficult to assign blame or take credit. But IMO awareness has as much a role as anything that happens.

Quote:
laughingdog said:(space does not come and go like the objects within it)


How do you know this? This is not self-evident to me so please provide some support for the assertion.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Kickle]
    #25633720 -

Can't really fault someone for misinterpreting Luciferian.

Anyway, Buddhism is similar to Christianity in that we should acknowledge to ourselves that while we have a seed of divinity we are also imperfect and we all put our pants on one leg at a time. It doesn't proscribe nirvana but rather that we should see things as they are and by the light of that awareness refine ourselves. I see no fault in Buddhism, but plenty of fault in people. There's an article in The Sun this morning, a Buddhist monk was caught in a drug fueled orgy. There was also a picture of a monk on a bus pleasuring himself.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Rahz]
    #25634777 -

Re: Rahz

Some folks like to debate everything
such as:
'Do guns cause murders?'
Millions of dollars are spent on this debate in the USA.

other folks
try to persecute other
folks for non-violent 'crimes'.

As you point out many such folks
look outwards for the source
of their dislikes, resistance, and hostility
but fail to understand
the defense mechanism of projection.

Ultimately they are their own victims.
As the world they perceive seems full of
rivals or enemies and stress.

This is rather different from
the Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj quote:
"In my world, nothing ever goes wrong."
https://tomdas.com/2015/09/08/how-a-self-realised-person-sees-the-world/

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25634958 -

ok, mr buddhist, you don't like to debate things, just meditate then. you won't do anything or change anything but you don't want to debate, so... you don't even want to talk; because it's useless.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25636599 -

That's the spirit!
vitality!
vigor!
Brightness is important in terms of illumination, AKA enlightenment.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25636744 -

you are being sorta hypocrites though. telling people to 'basically shut the up morons, but hey, listen to me tell you what for'.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25636785 -

Coincidentally Angel # 49 says:

• Difficulty raising oneself up and manifesting wisdom
• Complexes of superiority and inferiority
• Spiritual extremism or lack of spirituality
• Does not meditate
• Atheism
• Egoism, hypocrisy, absence of principles
• Opposes feelings of fraternity
• Critical writer, person of negative influence
• Passion, hatred
• Escapism, flight
• Fear of matter
November 23 to November 27 link

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25636947 -

Various sects of Buddhism. Many don't believe living enlightenment can go beyond Bodhisattva. Seems reasonable. Whether such a state is desirable depends. Most people want Nirvana, the real deal, the ultimate, and they don't want to work and sacrifice for it. How can any worthy system persist in such a clime? Even the priests, clerics, and monks become corrupt.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Rahz]
    #25637192 -

that's just life.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25637304 -

So the theory is reason itself..  uddjism has an agenda like anything else.. .ike any other religion.. if you algin with tgee goals than you are what you are stated with the utmost discipline which comes after your choice? Easy does


--------------------
Thank you for your Time...

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #25637305 -

Dreaming in code/programming is a reality..

Your dreams are attempting to program you based on your beliefs..

So if you have the right vs wrong beliefs you will be spared pain and suffering


--------------------
Thank you for your Time...

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #25637306 -

There is the lodge and then there is what you can do with the lodge.. ideas and thoughts are like this. M THEORY.. WAVE DYNAMICS


--------------------
Thank you for your Time...

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Rahz]
    #25637315 -

Rahz said:
Buddhism is similar to Christianity in that we should acknowledge to ourselves that while we have a seed of divinity we are also imperfect and we all put our pants on one leg at a time.


Where, in the name of Jesus, does Buddhism claim all humans are imperfect?

Many Buddhists say the concept of imperfection is a sign of confusion and suffering.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #25637766 -

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Rahz said:
Buddhism is similar to Christianity in that we should acknowledge to ourselves that while we have a seed of divinity we are also imperfect and we all put our pants on one leg at a time.


Where, in the name of Jesus, does Buddhism claim all humans are imperfect?

Many Buddhists say the concept of imperfection is a sign of confusion and suffering.


Whether Nirvana is considered perfection, perhaps it's not a direct analog but karma creates ignorance and craving, resulting in unhappiness. Karma isn't inherently bad but the presence of karma indicates the potential for misery, confusion and suffering. Buddha pointed out that, contrary to Hindu idealism, both rich and poor were equally susceptible to such afflictions.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Rahz]
    #25637816 -

“The secret of Buddhism is to remove all ideas, all concepts, in order for the truth to have a chance to penetrate, to reveal itself.”
― Thich Nhat Hanh, Buddha Mind, Buddha Body: Walking Toward Enlightenment

In the face of this it might seem that the adding of more opinions by those who are not ‘self-realised persons’ is most likely counter productive

as far as words go:

here's an Advaita  version of the "teachings", ( that really don't depend on any 'ism',
Suf-ism, Buddh-ism, Nondual-ism (Advaita), or whatever 'ism')

"Total and complete enlightenment: why you’re still not there yet"

https://tomdas.com/author/awaken1980/

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25638022 -

laughingdog said:
“The secret of Buddhism is to remove all ideas, all concepts, in order for the truth to have a chance to penetrate, to reveal itself.”
― Thich Nhat Hanh, Buddha Mind, Buddha Body: Walking Toward Enlightenment




This resembles a Taoist description I came across:

"...is a teaching about the various disciplines for achieving "perfection" by becoming one with the unplanned rhythms of the universe"

And:

"Taoist ethics vary depending on the particular school, but in general tend to emphasize wu wei (action without intention), "naturalness", simplicity, spontaneity, "

Wiki

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25638223 -

akira_akuma said:
you are being sorta hypocrites though. telling people to 'basically shut the up morons, but hey, listen to me tell you what for'.


me, pshaw.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25638241 -

alright, then, circular.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #25638290 -

Thiền Buddhism has it's root in China; so it's not surprising that elements of Tao are constituent.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25638443 -

akira_akuma said:
alright, then, circular.


defensively a circle describes a boundary or extent (circumference) from a center point of interest.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25638519 -

But people who don't meditate are less insightful.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #25639530 -

anyone can be insightful, but the practice of insight meditation can lead to many insights per day versus one or two big ones per month.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25639549 -

All right then, by the improvement we have witnessed from Ferdinando on this board, we might expect further progress in his development, rather than a relapse.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25640153 -

Don't expect anything, and then you will be right.

Ferdinando makes advances and relapses regularly, with an overall pattern of net improvement in self directedness, and his interaction in the world.

This is not because of Buddhism - it is because of his work to get to a better place.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25640204 -

So meditation wont give everyone insights?

Ah, I see not...

Swami said:
I never said meditation did not teach me anything; merely that it led to no mystical places nor cosmic wisdom. No training is wasted. I now prefer meditation-in-action such as sports as opposed to sitting meditation.



Edited by Buster_Brown (11/26/18 01:00 PM)

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #25640274 -

Generally yes, but results are better when the goal is to simply calm ones mind rather than to gain something. There's a bit of a catch 22 in theory, but in practice it's more like the turtle -vs- the hare. Another analogy would be that the ego is what experiences desire, but one must calm the ego to gain insight. Insight is a natural occurrence that's not dependent on desire.

But there are no guarantees, which kind of plays into the whole perspective of being humble and appreciating the experience for whatever it happens to be.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Rahz]
    #25640356 -

Some might equate insights into Dukkha (suffering or unsatisfactoriness), Anatta (absence of eternal self) and Anicca (impermanence) as unprofitable. Indeed our old acquaintance OrgoneConclusion was unimpressed, and one might see that a Hindu could state that the Sun of Buddhist wisdom will be eclipsed by the moo(n).

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25640466 -

True, though joy has no direct reason. It's been a common theme for the Western person to embrace Buddhism or other Eastern philosophy only to become depersonalized, disillusioned and have not even illusion to fill the void they feel, however I suspect many of those individuals were on their way to disillusionment to begin with. Meditation is not a prerequisite for being miserable. I was already miserable so I figured, what the hell?

I could also say, along the same theme that we've been discussing, expectations are a bitch. Beyond that there is only taking care of the body along with various achievements for whatever they are worth. If the idea of minimizing one's ego is understood, one must decide whether it's a good idea or not. It's not for everyone I suppose. Even still I get the idea that we're all on the same path yet in saying that I don't suspect nirvana is an actual end, or that there is necessarily an ultimate end at all outside death of personality/body. We get a hand of cards. We choose how to play them and then the game is over.

I wrote a song about it when I was younger. You can probably guess the title.

Rolling, rolling right along.
Rolling rolling rolling it goes on and on.
Rolling on through the day,
Yea it's better than turning away,
and it rolls on and on.

Rolling, rolling right along.
Rolling rolling rolling gotta sing our songs.
Rolling on hello and goodbye,
Looking 'round when we question why and we keep rolling on.

Rolling, rolling on through the week.
Smiling one day then tears are rolling down your cheeks.
Some pretend they don't understand,
Some reach out with a helping hand and we keep rolling on.

Rolling, rolling comes a bright Summer day.
Rolling, soon it starts rolling away.
The Sun rolls round the bend,
But tomorrow it's back again and it rolls on and on.

Rolling along towards that pie in the sky,
We do what we can and we never say die.
Whoever said it never hurt to try?
But it's always better than wondering why
Looking for somewhere that we can belong,
Good luck to your heat I hope it doesn't take long.
Keep an open mind to see the right and the wrong,
And it goes on and on.

Rolling, rolling on through the years.
Rolling rolling, rolling through the laughter and tears.
Yes we've gotta fight to be free.
That's just the way it's meant to be
And we keep rolling on.

Rolling, rolling right along.
Life is short so I really hope you like your song.
I guess it comes from the soul,
So party and rock and roll,
and it rolls on and on.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #25640572 -

wheely good!

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25640588 -

Quote:
there is only taking care of the body along with various achievements for whatever they are worth. If the idea of minimizing one's ego is understood, one must decide whether it's a good idea or not.


Yes; If meditation helps people with their medical conditions, that results in a better handle on reality, I'm in favor. The results I believe are evident in their mental acuity. Ra! Ra! Ferdinando!

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25641586 -

Buster_Brown said:
Some might equate insights into Dukkha (suffering or unsatisfactoriness), Anatta (absence of eternal self) and Anicca (impermanence) as unprofitable.


Many people find introspection offensive.

Understanding why reaps glorious wisdom.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #25641784 -

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Buster_Brown said:
Some might equate insights into Dukkha (suffering or unsatisfactoriness), Anatta (absence of eternal self) and Anicca (impermanence) as unprofitable.


Many people find introspection offensive.

Understanding why reaps glorious wisdom.


"...views on introspection must be approached with great care." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introspection

I assume the wisdom you speak of has something to do with guilty consciences.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #25641793 -

Actually, insights into the nature of suffering or unsatisfactoriness, the absence of an eternal self and impermanence would alleviate any guilt.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25641823 -

logic never overpowers feelings except on paper:
patience and persistence with honesty creates a kind of trust base that enables feelings to operate in a sane way.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25641836 -

we're on paper here. Your meditation technique calms your inherited nervous condition, Rahz's depression and whatever ailment besets Ferdinando. Great! Meditation improves functionality for the physically and mentally challenged...And also for those with guilt complexes apparently.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25641868 -

Happy people don't really need it do they? If Buddha was happy he wouldn't have left his fathers palace and we never would have heard of him.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Rahz]
    #25642048 -

maybe there exists a similarity between Moses and the Buddha in that respect.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25642198 -

yes we were slaves in Egypt, it sucked. Moses helped with that, but the comparison is weak beyond that.
go try meditation, it is not like something else - it is something else.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25642272 -

Me and Swami are deficient in the qualifications dept, I think.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25642665 -

it could be verbal, as in, the verb to deficientiate oneself.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #25642900 -

Buster_Brown said:
Me and Swami are deficient in the qualifications dept, I think.


OC said he never felt anything after years of practice :laugh:. I felt something within several weeks of starting. I know someone who took at least several months, perhaps longer. There was a gap between watching him struggle and seeing him again when he reported success.

Chakras are just feelings, brain and nervous system. There is control to be had both in conjuring and calming. I think the conjuring is primarily useful for scholarly reasons, get the message, hang up the phone, but there's a certain amount of that people tend to do automatically from a more subconscious level. Some people do kundalini yoga. I drink a coffee in the morning.

The guy who could jog for hours barefoot in the snow, I cannot do that. Some monks can wrap themselves in a wet sheet and survive the night exposed in the cold. If I had no evidence such things could be done I wouldn't believe it.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Rahz]
    #25648216 -

Rahz said:
Buster_Brown said:
Me and Swami are deficient in the qualifications dept, I think.


OC said he never felt anything after years of practice :laugh:. I felt something within several weeks of starting. I know someone who took at least several months, perhaps longer. There was a gap between watching him struggle and seeing him again when he reported success.


Considering there are many scientific studies,- a few uncontrolled anecdotal stories, even if interesting, are pretty meaningless. Both as regards what to expect or not expect, statistical averages, what the possibilities are with good guidance, and the ultimate potentials of practice.

For example if I really wanted to research the subject I might start here:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=mindfulness+meditation%2C+science+studies&t=h_&ia=web

and here:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=brainwaves+meditation%2C+science+studies&t=h_&ia=web

You seem to reference Wim Hof
who is also interesting
and there are many videos about him, and by him on utube at
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=wim+hof

Jack Schwartz also showed extraordinary mind body control

but of course their aims were and are different from realizing non-self & impermanence


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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25648481 -

laughingdog said:
Rahz said:
Buster_Brown said:
Me and Swami are deficient in the qualifications dept, I think.


OC said he never felt anything after years of practice :laugh:. I felt something within several weeks of starting. I know someone who took at least several months, perhaps longer. There was a gap between watching him struggle and seeing him again when he reported success.


Considering there are many scientific studies,- a few uncontrolled anecdotal stories, even if interesting, are pretty meaningless...



Lol, I think he word you were looking for is "inconclusive", not "meaningless" (I could be wrong tho)

Insight (Vipassana) meditationlink
"Vipassana meditation is a component of Buddhist philosophy. Phra Taweepong Inwongsakul and Sampath Kumar from the University of Mysore have been studying the effects of this meditation on 120 students by measuring the associated increase of cortical thickness in the brain. The results of this study are inconclusive."

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25648698 -

laughingdog said:
Rahz said:
Buster_Brown said:
Me and Swami are deficient in the qualifications dept, I think.


OC said he never felt anything after years of practice :laugh:. I felt something within several weeks of starting. I know someone who took at least several months, perhaps longer. There was a gap between watching him struggle and seeing him again when he reported success.


Considering there are many scientific studies,- a few uncontrolled anecdotal stories, even if interesting, are pretty meaningless. Both as regards what to expect or not expect, statistical averages, what the possibilities are with good guidance, and the ultimate potentials of practice.

For example if I really wanted to research the subject I might start here:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=mindfulness+meditation%2C+science+studies&t=h_&ia=web

and here:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=brainwaves+meditation%2C+science+studies&t=h_&ia=web

You seem to reference Wim Hof
who is also interesting
and there are many videos about him, and by him on utube at
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=wim+hof

Jack Schwartz also showed extraordinary mind body control

but of course their aims were and are different from realizing non-self & impermanence




My point was that some people find it more difficult than others. Why you want to argue with that I have no idea.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25648707 -

Buster_Brown said:
laughingdog said:
Rahz said:
Buster_Brown said:
Me and Swami are deficient in the qualifications dept, I think.


OC said he never felt anything after years of practice :laugh:. I felt something within several weeks of starting. I know someone who took at least several months, perhaps longer. There was a gap between watching him struggle and seeing him again when he reported success.


Considering there are many scientific studies,- a few uncontrolled anecdotal stories, even if interesting, are pretty meaningless...



Lol, I think he word you were looking for is "inconclusive", not "meaningless" (I could be wrong tho)

Insight (Vipassana) meditationlink
"Vipassana meditation is a component of Buddhist philosophy. Phra Taweepong Inwongsakul and Sampath Kumar from the University of Mysore have been studying the effects of this meditation on 120 students by measuring the associated increase of cortical thickness in the brain. The results of this study are inconclusive."


I posted 2 pages of links, without cherry picking. You engage in cherry picking one link in order to see if you can provoke an argument. Such behavior is called trolling. Especially when you actually have nothing to say on the subject. And you failed to notice that I did not say the results proved anything, only that accurate data requires both quantity and controls and good experimental design, sort of thing. But of course good reading comprehension goes out the door when the motive is actually about attention getting or trolling. But at the moment this board is full of such stuff and not closely moderated so you are in good company. So don't worry, you may yet find someone to hook.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Rahz]
    #25648718 -

And how would a Control Group have significance in an experiment where insights cannot be verified?

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Rahz]
    #25648731 -

Rahz said:
My point was that some people find it more difficult than others. Why you want to argue with that I have no idea.


Sorry, guess that part of your point, got lost on me, by the part about chakras, in the middle.
I agree that "that some people find it more difficult than others."
:smile:

Edited by laughingdog (11/30/18 11:12 PM)

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25648734 -

laughingdog said:
...accurate data requires both quantity and controls and good experimental design...


Will you outline the role of a 'control group' in a Vipassana meditation?

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25655354 -

That is because the biggest problem with Buddhism is that it is an organized religion.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Huehuecoyotl] * 2
    #25658182 -

Buddhism and meditation is a practice that expands our perspective and allows us to learn how we disturb ourselves.

This type of inquiry can be terrifying. Most people would rather suffer.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #25659017 -

I largely agree. Although I haven't met a person who doesn't suffer. I think believing that is achievable, while hopeful, may cause suffering in believers from the start.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Kickle]
    #25662991 -

So suffering is the truth?


--------------------
Thank you for your Time...

Edited by BrendanFlock (12/07/18 01:30 AM)

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #25663166 -

Possibly. What do your experiences tell you?

For me the best case scenario has started to look like the taoist story of the farmer who's son breaks his leg and everyone fawns and says it's so terrible. and the farmer responds maybe, maybe not. and then the military comes recruiting but they skip the son because of his broken leg. and then everyone fawns and says it's so great and lucky. and the farmer says maybe, maybe not.

IMO the issue is in believing that one should not be suffering when one is. And visa-versa.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Kickle]
    #25663416 -

There is no such 'thing' as "Buddhism",
'Pure land' buddhist practice is completely different from 'Zen' Buddhist practice.

Likewise with christianity:
Poison snake handlers in Texas hardly seem the same religion as say Benedictine monks.

Like wise with 'art'. Pop art and medieval  religious painting occurred in very different cultures, and had very different meanings and purposes. To call them both "art' is misleading.

But this is what ordinary language does, it overgeneralizes, which helps create a mindset, that allows debates over nothing, for those who like to pass their time "debating".

But don't let my 'pompous ivory tower intellectualism' stop you from enjoying the fray!

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25664049 -

True IMO. There isn't anything such as Buddhism. But the word is quite useful to communicate ideas with.

Your post is a good reminder tho. Life can be very good at providing reminders when they are needed and listened to. There's my Christian roots, speaking of.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25664163 -

Buddhism is and always has been counter to "Buddha" and his exact teachings. because it is a noble cause not a "relent from suffering, gained through enlightenment" like most people seem to think.

Edited by akira_akuma (12/08/18 01:56 PM)

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25665431 -

that's beautiful bro


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Kickle]
    #25665493 -

what is?

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25665520 -

what you said

p.s. i liked it better before the edit :smile:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Kickle]
    #25665769 -


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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #25666408 -

I am surprised by Akira Akuma's breadth of knowledge of Buddha's noble path.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #25666429 -

i don't need to simply, by rote, give you a disquisition on the path- i can incorporate my own thoughts and ideas- seeing as though, i'm not on that particular (and true) path. the later schools preach only likenesses of it. they are different. that is all there is to it. they aren't inherently wrong. just not 'the same'.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25667504 -

so the authentic ones are original ones such as yourself.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25667541 -

no. you're being, just, silly. i mean, that, sorta like with Jesus, there was one way to do things concerning their 'doctrine'. the doctrine, therefrom, in Buddha's case as well, had underwent change, and thus did not remain the same.

is that clear enough for you, dude?

Edited by akira_akuma (12/10/18 10:11 AM)

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25669502 -

What is clear is that you are basing your statement on mythical historical religious figures on facts that nobody can know specifically since all records of it (life and times of Jesus & life and times of Buddha) are unverifiable, and most likely (fictions) created  after the fact.


This is not personal.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25669695 -

you can say what you want to say; you could have made that^ clear, as your wont for examination didn't appear to lead in that direction- it's a folly, for sure- because i don't really give a fuck what people practice. they are allowed to practice new forms of things. so i don't know what time or verifiability has to do with anything. my point in bringing up doctrine (in this thread about fucking Buddhism) is to highlight the fact that these new forms are just that, dispersion's, or 'disintegration's' of the original doctrine, and that they delineate along a certain contextual line, for each their own, and therefore, one has to be clear in distinction to ascertain what is relevant. in otherwords, 'dogma' doesn't matter- what i think is relevant along the lines of this entire thread, as dense of a concept it may be, can be summed up in a quote:

Quote:
"Self-relation is a defeasible and disequilibrial constructive process. it is a process whereby geist utilizes the intelligibility of its structural transformations (its history) as a model for conceiving itself from the standpoint of a reality that is in excess of it. Not only are geist's actions informed by this mode[l], they also exhibit it. The positive freedom of geist- the freedom to do something- is an expression of this self-relation, which is that of formal autonomy. In its simplest terms  and most embryonic form this self-relation is the trivial tautology 'I am I' (I=I). But in positing this very tautology, geist comes to the realization that the accomplished individuality that it takes itself to be is in fact an ongoing process of individuation from the perspective of that which is not this I: the other I, and reality in its radical otherness. That is to say, the positing of self-consciousness as formal- as abstracted from any particular or substantive content- enables what is conscious to be conscious of itself only in so far as some other object mediates its 'immediate' relation to itself"


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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25669947 -

that quote does not seem relevant to Buddhist practice as far as I can unravel; where in this picture is the awareness of mental contents arising and passing without indulgence or avoidance?


The only model that is acceptable would be voidness, i.e. no model, in order to accommodate a continuum of change.


All that blumpf about an object mediating its immediate relation to itself is tangential to the extreme.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25670088 -

This thread is forever active.

Let him dance in his own fire. :thumbup:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #25670793 -

Duncan Rowhl said:
This thread is forever active.

Let him dance in his own fire. :thumbup:


you're literally full of it. me dance in fire? you're the once dancing in fire here.

you making assumptions like "he isn't talking like i talk, i don't get it, hence, he's burning right now" is so typically an attitude of the weak and the lost, that it's no wonder you preach the Christian doctrine. sorry but all you people, you "orthodox" people, are supremely full of the most fundamental shit, it's obvious that soon there will probably be some kind of spiritual warfare. individuals with understanding and dogmatic hounds with little to zero understanding.

i'm ready whenever you are. well, i mean, you keep trying to insinuate that every who doesn't "speak from your doctrine", Duncan, is "burning"-- but that's because you think you are very high and mighty. you're still, WRONG, as ever, though.

Quote:
that quote does not seem relevant to Buddhist practice as far as I can unravel; where in this picture is the awareness of mental contents arising and passing without indulgence or avoidance?


it's the realizing of the self as self-consciousness, and with that realizing, you can be aware of mental contents arising and passing without indulgence.

in fact, methinks you really actually DON'T know what the fuck the goal is that was endeavored upon.

Quote:
The only model that is acceptable would be voidness, i.e. no model, in order to accommodate a continuum of change.


already ahead of you. the self-reflection is noted as "voidness" because it a constantly self-replicating cycle. hence, the warning of Buddha concerning the reality of no-self as being the baseline for Actuality.

he was a philosopher, not a 'pain management guru' (mental or otherwise) for people who are weak.

Edited by akira_akuma (12/10/18 06:13 PM)

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25676985 -

obviously you are inexperienced in Buddhist meditation and the language used describing experience from that.
- voidness in philosophy can be anything such as you say, and you are way ahead of me in that direction; but in Buddhism it is not a deduction that hinges on another idea, such as any good philosophic concept can be taken to be (connected conceptually to other concepts that you can think up).

Voidness in buddhism is used in two ways (tricky buddhist masters)
1. as relates to anatta, no-self, experienced directly and repeatedly in meditation, liberating by seeing chains of dependent origination, conditioning, and defensiveness. (As with mushroom ego-loss experiences, it is not what you think up, it just happens and is quite refreshing when it does).
2. as relates to space - one of the 5 basic elements, again as an object of meditation - something that is experienced as opposed to rationalized or considered or thought about at arms length.


meditation is not something for people who are weak - did you get that idea from Trump?


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25677136 -

whatever man, you aren't telling me anything dude. nothing at all i don't already know.

where did i say anything about meditation? [if it was earlier in the thread, from days ago, erm, was it something along the lines of "meditation isn't all there is to Buddhism"?]
--
no-self is a completely misunderstood concept in most of the modern Buddhism, because of Anatta, the concept of "no-self" being taken to be a refutation of the concept of Brahman, which, it clearly isn't, if read correctly.

Quote:
- voidness in philosophy can be anything such as you say, and you are way ahead of me in that direction; but in Buddhism it is not a deduction that hinges on another idea, such as any good philosophic concept can be taken to be (connected conceptually to other concepts that you can think up).



what you are pointing at here is merely the extremity of my postulation- that is to say, the idea i've posited, maybe perhaps vexingly- but nonetheless, the point of positing it is to show the connection between that idea and the concept within Buddhism, clearly evident as per the doctrine, and which therein evincing the predisposition towards a possibly convergence, and thence, a theoretical basis for the connection- that is what i'm pointing out. that Buddhism is often misapprehending the subject matter, without strict guidance and an understanding of the dialectic, and therefore, the dialectical nature of said 'Guidance' [you may remember Buddha was silent on many matters, and on many more still, spoke in similes (similar to Jesus's parables), because the actual "concrete" (for lack of a better word) "nature" of the concepts espoused on complex and at quite a few times, resolve into the ineffable.

Quote:
2. as relates to space - one of the 5 basic elements, again as an object of meditation - something that is experienced as opposed to rationalized or considered or thought about at arms length.


known colloquially as the "fetch", from in some traditions.

Quote:
meditation is not something for people who are weak - did you get that idea from Trump?


again, you are just pulling that from the air. i haven't said anything about meditation being 'weak'.

you and your Trump Derangement Syndrome.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25677747 -

it's my birthday, so, I letting you off the hook.

here is a nice poem from Leonard


So I must say it quickly:
Whoever is in your life,
those who harm you,
those who help you;
those whom you know
and those whom you do not know -
let them off the hook,
help them off the hook.
Recognize the hook.
You are listening to Radio Resistance.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25678124 -

Ha, Ha, So are you drinking or meditating on this special occasion:)and why does one not preclude the other

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25678215 -

drinking or meditating?
both (a taste of gifted tequila, 3 oz of wine, several brief sessions of directed awareness) and some al-lad (goofy and definitive),
but inspired by all the mounting world wide (including America) acknowledgement of climate change this week.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #25678315 -

For the casual viewer

In the Tibetan Shambhala tradition apparently there is something called "mindful drinking":

once a meditator has developed basic Buddhist discipline ... the practitioner is ready to incorporate Vajrayana teachings, where the simple prohibitions outlined in the Sutras are re-evaluated. When a meditator reaches this point, which often takes a number years in the Shambhala tradition, a dangerous substance like alcohol is viewed as a potential aide for the practitioner. Within the context of strong discipline and clear intention, alcohol holds the possibility of no longer acting as a conventional escape, but instead being a tool for loosening the subtle clinging of ego.


https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/questions/2512/is-moderate-drinking-acceptable-in-buddhism

Some Vajrayana rituals include use of certain taboo substances, such as blood, semen, alcohol and urine, as ritual offerings and sacraments, though these are often replaced with less taboo substances in their place such as yogurt. Tantric feasts and initiations sometimes employed substances like human flesh as noted by Kahha’s Yogaratnamala. The use of these substances is related to the non-dual (advaya) nature of Buddhahood. Since the ultimate state is in some sense non-dual, a practitioner can approach that state by "transcending attachment to dual categories such as pure and impure, permitted and forbidden". As the Guhyasamaja Tantra states "the wise man who does not discriminate achieves buddhahood".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajrayana#Affirmation_of_the_feminine,_antinomian_and_taboo

Edited by Buster_Brown (12/14/18 07:37 AM)

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown] * 2
    #25678515 -

If you think about it, if you follow buddhism you'll comprehend better life.

Its the only religion which dont defend hierarchies or meaningless pleasures
They want everyone to experience transcendence and be happy.

They dont talk about suffering. Its the only one which preferes life to death and instead of taking you to heaven takes you to heaven on earth while you dwell in your body.

People dont want to go buddist because they simply dont have the time, buddhism at the first glance may seem a waiting for better things to come all the time, and people take the step out because sometimes it seems forever and prefer to give up in detriment to simple and hedonistic life.

Try to understand the buddist nature and you will have a new perception on life´
im not saying it fits to your style of life and you have to change religion.
Im saying buddhism is the most advanced and not simple way

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Spiralspider]
    #25683586 -

Within the context of strong discipline and clear intention, alcohol holds the possibility of no longer acting as a conventional escape, but instead being a tool for loosening the subtle clinging of ego.

When I read this, I think yeah. But in a very specific context. Where-in what one has been taught is an obstacle to letting go. And so if one has taught and adhered to non-drinking as a way of life and what one should do, then to let go of that is to let go of the egos hold on right and wrong.

I'd fear that someone may take that quote as drinking while meditating = practice.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Kickle]
    #25683743 -

pretty much

if done using mindfulness, anything becomes practice, however that is the practice of making life into meditation (highly recommended) -


to get a grip on the practice, however, to begin to hone the skills of mindfulness, we do not start by introducing distraction making challenges. that is provided in everyday life.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25683758 -

:thumbup: nicely said red


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25683766 -

redgreenvines said:
it's my birthday, so, I letting you off the hook.

here is a nice poem from Leonard


So I must say it quickly:
Whoever is in your life,
those who harm you,
those who help you;
those whom you know
and those whom you do not know -
let them off the hook,
help them off the hook.
Recognize the hook.
You are listening to Radio Resistance.


Happy Belated Birthday!


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #25683823 -

thanks - have a great week all!

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25684149 -

laughingdog said:
There is no such 'thing' as "Buddhism",
'Pure land' buddhist practice is completely different from 'Zen' Buddhist practice.

Likewise with christianity:
Poison snake handlers in Texas hardly seem the same religion as say Benedictine monks.

Like wise with 'art'. Pop art and medieval  religious painting occurred in very different cultures, and had very different meanings and purposes. To call them both "art' is misleading.

But this is what ordinary language does, it overgeneralizes, which helps create a mindset, that allows debates over nothing, for those who like to pass their time "debating".

But don't let my 'pompous ivory tower intellectualism' stop you from enjoying the fray!


There is no such thing as "the united states." People in Georgia are completely different than people in Washington state. There is no such thing as "krypto2000". Krypto2000's ideas in the philosophy subforum are completely different from krypto2000's ideas in the pub.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: krypto2000]
    #25684482 -

yes, more complexity that is unable to be capably taken care of. goody.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25684831 -

akira_akuma said:
yes, more complexity that is unable to be capably taken care of. goody.


do you mean "dispensed with" or
"nurtured"


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25684838 -

i said what i meant. 'taken care of'. like a baby.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25685369 -

who's your mommy?

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25685716 -

you don't want to go there.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25685804 -


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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: krypto2000]
    #25686525 -

krypto2000 said:
laughingdog said:
There is no such 'thing' as "Buddhism",
'Pure land' buddhist practice is completely different from 'Zen' Buddhist practice.

Likewise with christianity:
Poison snake handlers in Texas hardly seem the same religion as say Benedictine monks.

Like wise with 'art'. Pop art and medieval  religious painting occurred in very different cultures, and had very different meanings and purposes. To call them both "art' is misleading.

But this is what ordinary language does, it overgeneralizes, which helps create a mindset, that allows debates over nothing, for those who like to pass their time "debating".

But don't let my 'pompous ivory tower intellectualism' stop you from enjoying the fray!


There is no such thing as "the united states." People in Georgia are completely different than people in Washington state. There is no such thing as "krypto2000". Krypto2000's ideas in the philosophy subforum are completely different from krypto2000's ideas in the pub.


tell that to the IRS who taxes the whole way beyond other socialist countries to make weapons and profits for private interest around the world


--------------------
They were dead before the ship sank!

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: the_way]
    #25686532 -

karma come home #1 prayer


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They were dead before the ship sank!

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: the_way]
    #25686559 -

Player? Or prayer..?


--------------------
Thank you for your Time...

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #25687656 -

very Serious 'Problems with Buddhism' indeed

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=tiger+buddhist+monk&t=h_&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25688192 -

see stick with meditation and get big pussy!


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25688266 -

what good pun that must be

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25706235 -

another very Serious 'Problems with Buddhism' indeed
the failure to confront impermanence
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=sky+burial&form=BILH1&first=1&cw=1208&ch=681



https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=dismembering%20bodies%2C%20Sky%20Burial&cbir=sbi&imageBin=&qs=n&form=QBIR&sp=-1&pq=dismembering%20bodies%2C%20sky%20burial&sc=0-31&sk=&cvid=984743C7743A4694BE948E6EA9436C7C

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #25706466 -

there isn't so much a problem with the religion, as with the society, in general.

i see alot of great failures to confront impermanence on a much more massive scales in the inner cities of America, or Russia, or in the slums of Europe- even in the public centers, crime is a part of everything day life. and people, usually, do not cope with death well.... period. natural confronting death with agony. it's the human condition. -- just because you have some shocking picture with some highfalutin opinions about how the religion reflects on society, means not a refutation of the practice- but nay, it only confirms it's validity. (i feel worse for Christians [and Muslims, due to stupid desert war mentality- i mean just innocent practitioners] everyday, knowing that the society cannot find fault with itself, but will project all it's problems onto religion- like a scapegoat.)

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #25707480 -

I don't think impermanence is a reality one needs to confront, but rather to accept and embrace.

"problem" can be defined as . . .

A detailed and operational description of the difference between the existing situation and the desired situation.

A matter or situation regarded as unwelcome or harmful and needing to be dealt with and overcome.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25707491 -

My my, you still just can't resist,  inserting personal jibes, into what is supposed to be an otherwise heavy hitting intellectual response.

Personal jibes such as:
"highfalutin opinions"

And continue to be in such a rush to prove something, that you cannot bother with proper, grammar, which is almost as necessary in english as in math.
The most obvious examples are these 2 sentences, right next to each other:
" natural confronting death with agony. it's the human condition.",
but is actually a characteristic of most of the post.

Which is clearly false anyway, as anyone familiar with hospice care knows.

...What comes across in your post, is that you dislike me. Which by the way is of no interest to anyone except yourself. Because you are the only one who has to experience the emotion of aversion, compulsively, in this regard. Although quite possibly I irritate others from time to time with my posts.
...Thus in a thread, that interests almost no one, RG can respond to a photo with a pun, whereas you seem to feel a need to prove something, even though you can't quite articulate it.

...By the way it IS not a "shocking picture". As you yourself already know. But if you want to write in the style of journalism for a moment, before switching back to what is supposed to be logic, it does of course sound good, to those who don't read critically. ...The notion that it is "shocking" would be purely a subjective response, of a limited subset of people, in certain cultures.

You clearly have energy, creativity, and a desire to think deeply and make interesting connections--but at present still seem to be your own worst enemy.

Which, a bare minimum of intelligence, would suggest is most likely an issue that extends way beyond the trivial manifestations, we all see on this message board.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #25707612 -

If I said

There are problems with the car,

Would you think I hate the car,

would you think I have a bad mind,

a million problems with myself --

probably none of these things.

But because of the topic,

You thought all of these.



You are confused,

I understand.

All I am saying.

There are problems with the car.

It's running over things.

It's going crazy.




Begin: love.





Choose your own adventure.




Pointing out -- 3 genocides in 75 years.


No other religion is doing this.


As I say many times.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25707617 -

Oops, did I say something wrong?

Don't shoot the messenger.

Improve a situation.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25707626 -

Why are you ( 'life is good ') replying to a message that wasn't meant for you?

And then telling me, I'm confused? funny

and then worrying about being 'shot'?

But its really very obvious, from the content that, this message did not concern you or any of your posts.

If you want attention you could start a new post I suppose.

Edited by laughingdog (12/28/18 12:29 PM)

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25707636 -

no not you haha


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25707637 -

no not you


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25707638 -

of course i was not talking to you


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25707645 -

don't be an idiot,

"don't shoot the messenger"

is not referring to being literally shot,

that is not very logical,

or,

very disingenuous.

It's referring to the whole thread.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good] * 1
    #25708905 -

So is determinism; the laws of cause and effect real in Buddhism?


--------------------
Thank you for your Time...

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25709096 -

laughingdog said:
Personal jibes such as:
"highfalutin opinions"

...What comes across in your post, is that you dislike me.



Characterizing someone's apparent opinion is not a personal jibe. Seems like it was your opinion he disliked.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Rahz]
    #25709389 -

Quote:
And continue to be in such a rush to prove something, that you cannot bother with proper, grammar, which is almost as necessary in english as in math.


nice personal jibe.

but no, my grammar is fine. i think my had one typo in that post, i meant to say: "it's natural confronting death with agony."

but regardless, my grammar was literally fine. synchysis is awesome.

and i think i articulated my point perfectly clearly. you didn't even address it.

Quote:
By the way it IS not a "shocking picture"


by the way? see? can't even address my point, not without simply casting it away.

but alas, no. it was presented as "shocking" because his point was that "this happens in Buddhism *insert picture* cause it's got problems, as per the thread title's insinuation".

unless, by his saying "it's failure", he was trying to be sarcastic. maybe he can clarify himself.

Quote:
Which, a bare minimum of intelligence, would suggest is most likely an issue that extends way beyond the trivial manifestations, we all see on this message board.


yes, YOU see bad grammar, so you keep insulting me. nice.

but no, i like you laughingdog. always found your posts at least on point, to some kind of point. but right now, you're just insinuating shit about buddhism to sort of drag in the mud, and aren't coming up with much great.

yeah they have some absurd ways of dealing with death...so does all of humanity. at least they confront it.

what do you want? them to do mushrooms while they do it?

Edited by akira_akuma (12/29/18 09:48 AM)

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25710163 -

except for the cat fight, what is this about?


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25710494 -

indeed

I suppose one could argue point by point but what's the point?
To try & temporarily convince someone, one is smarter than some other anonymous poster? Which is stupid enough, without the added irony of the supposed subject being "Buddhism".

And amusingly anyone who wants to 'dis' Buddhism can (I"m sure) find lots of Christian websites that are sure its the work of Satan.

Nobody who really wants to learn meditation or Buddhist Philosophy/psychology, is going to waste their time looking for real knowledge on a sub forum of a drug based website. And to miss this obvious fact does nothing effective for the effort to show off one's intelligence.

The world is full of both excellent respected and enlightened teachers of both meditation, mindfulness practice 'off the cushion', and the dharma (or doctrine or philosophy or psychology).

And all this is available for free at many web sites, as well as on youtube, and in countless books ( available as free pdfs. and for purchase on Amazon)

And of course psychedelics, may offer to those interested, a temporary experiential taste, which again is probably & usually of more value than 'amateurs' hoping to score points in a "debate".

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25710513 -

bwahahahaha

i'm going to go, over there, (away from here), because i stalk the alley, and cat's fight- but if i'm away from them, now, no one takes anything to seriously.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25710879 -

What source.

Grow up. Find love. Wake up.

Etc.

Genocide  no good.


Stop fight.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25710880 -

Love. Awakeness.

Peace.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25710943 -

as an analogy the Thermos could provide some insight into genocide or what-have-you.

The thermos is insulated by dead air space, a vacuum, and a reflective surface.

Dead-air space, as a defense, may be characterized by a lack of response to provocation, by reading a thread but not responding for example. A vacuum, on the other hand, is a total disregard or inattention to a thread.

The vacuum, as an insulating barrier, supports the idea of aliens that don't want anything to do with us.

Now we come to the reflective surface and how genocide may be a product of it. Upon inspection the victims may all share a common ingredient.

Quote:
Stop fight.


Change begins with the self.

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25731167 -

Would there have to be a genocide going on, for you to care?
Would there have to two?

You think that I am stupid, ignorant, an asshole,
Whichever, -
Whichever, and perhaps worse.

Basically, acting like I am the devil.
I recommend the Buddha's teachings-

Those such as non-violence, truthfulness,
(In fact among the order of virtues, truth comes higher even than non-violence.)
I'm on a phone, which mkaes it slower to type.

*Sigh*

Basically I may trying to say, please take a while, a month or something, between replies.
Non-reactivity is very important.
It takes long time...  Weeks, practice, to attain non-attachment.

There are two things, peace and happiness, which are very important and interact uniquely.
Peace is non-reactivity, or many other things.

It's one of the central most aspect of the Buddha's teaching.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25731471 -

by non-reactivity you mean 'bare awareness' as opposed to the kind of thing that happens when people become non-reactive due to antipsychotics.


the refinement is wakeful tranquility and a good connection with what is happening as opposed to the usual defensiveness that distracted people suffer.


I would not go so far as to discuss happiness, or to making any accounting about what is better, I just prefer wakeful tranquility and the ability to focus on what is happening.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Problems with Buddhism? [Re: life is good]
    #25731609 -

life is good said:
Would there have to be a genocide going on, for you to care?


Put into perspective, you're claiming that emotions should override reason, and I'm sure they do in the bulk of cases. Who can practice non-attachment within the matrix of bombs and mayhem?

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