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OfflineInnerBeing
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Registered: 12/07/04
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Buddhism Anyone?
    #3460271 - 12/07/04 05:01 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I just thought and see if I could start a topic on Buddhism and how it affects, our chemical and spiritual relationships. I for one have found that meditation has been an amazing spirital voyage for me, but I have also found that it helps me during psychedilic journeys as well.
Some interesting topics for discussion may be: How the Tibetan Book of the Dead relates to the psychedilic experience. Meditation and mushrooms, and etc.
Lets hear it!


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Kiss the ring Bitch!



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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: InnerBeing]
    #3460384 - 12/07/04 05:29 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I hvae almost no clue but I am waiting to see this thread bloom as I can maybe gain some knowledge.


He waits..........................


Welcome to our Forum by the way.............. :cheers:


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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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OfflineInnerBeing
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3460408 - 12/07/04 05:37 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks man,
I have been practicing Buddhism for several years now. My experience has been with Tibetan Buddhism, and Japanese Soto Zen meditation. I am not sure which came first, psychedelics or Buddhism, but I think there is much to discuss in of which is how they relate to eachother, and to us.
I find the iconography of Tibetan Buddhism to be immensely powerful, and I was curious to see if anyone has experienced any visuals and etc, that you feel relates to the Buddhist experience.


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Kiss the ring Bitch!



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: InnerBeing]
    #3460764 - 12/07/04 07:00 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

buddhist techniques for meditation are valuable as well as the whole approach to the 8-fold path.

for meditation two types stem from a common core and then reconverge

type one is
---relaxation or concentration meditation (samatha )
-------including
-------anapanasati (breath based)
-------chackras
-------yantras
-------casinas
-------mandalas
-------mantras
-------some koans
-------prostrations
-------moving meditations

type two is
---insight meditation.(vipassana )
-------anapanasati (breath based)
-------walking meditation
-------some koans
-------meditations on mind forms, and mind states

basically they reconverge into samatha-vipassana which is both types together, and that simplifies back into anapanasati - breath meditation usually, but can be anything. (a good meditator may be in samatha for 10 to 20 minutes even though he is practicing vipassana meditation, merely because he needs to build up some base to proceed from)

so some structure is created in the samatha meditations and not every one has to be tried to get going. those that try a lot might do so for purpose of getting methods, but mostly it is to find one that can be managed, and to begin building CALMNESS.

samatha is all about CALMNESS.

after calmness, there are jhana's to explore (*****)
after calmness. there is vipassana to explore (insight)

some meditators avoid insight and become jhana junkies - exploring more and more intense mindstates, but it is ok it all bends back into insight since it goes into voidness (*****)

the insight meditation observes cycles such as "beginning, middle end" of breath or "lifting moving treading" of the gait in walking.
From insight the element of reflection builds deep resonance and intimacy with living - understanding and the path.

the interruptions from concentration (samatha) and insight meditation teach a lot about who we are as the unconscious surfaces and requests acknowledgement.

How the interruptions are dealt with becomes the most significant part of meditation, as that is where the personality becomes reformed, how patience is built and calm alertness becomes the basis for intelligence .

Interruptions are noted and handled with gentle and firm patience and one resumes the meditation, whatever type it is.

in this way delusion is transcended - arrogance is bypassed - love (as in metta- patient nuruturing caring) is instilled at the core and the path is explored from whatever personal point of view arises.


psychedellics are no substitute to meditation.
they do toss the mind up into a stacked frame state which is like jhana(*****), though jhana always has a point of focus making it a more ruddered and keeled kind of mind state.
they also stimulate kinds of insight, which is different than the shoddy emotional realizations that arize ( they really are delusional) but simmilar in that they arize from stacked frame vantage points(*****).

meditation is handy to the psychonaut since it provides a keel and a base, and often (but not always) a refuge when things get rough.
when there is an element of arrogance, meditative practice is not a handy tool to the psychonaut that is out of line. the justice of the unconsious mind will prevail over the supressor of true nature.


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OfflineInnerBeing
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3460828 - 12/07/04 07:19 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Great post!
I found what you mentioned about the pursuit of jhana to be very interesting. As a beginning meditator (still am, always will be), I found great comfort in states of jhana, and pretty soon I found myself searching for that same level of jhana over and over again. I found myself searching for this blissful state, and wasted allot of effort trying to reach it. I would remember after the meditation feeling like I didn't accomplish anything by the sitting, it was quite frustrating.
After those pointless pursuits, I finally sought out a teacher to guide me along the way, and that is when I abandoned progress when doing meditation.
As far as psychedilics go, they certainly don't replace meditation, but I believe that they can be relevant when contemplating the bardos of exsistance. Some meditators use psychedelics as a method of training so that they will be able to better cope with the bardo of death and rebirth. Like psychedelic experiences, death can be every bit as frightening if one is not prepared. However, with the proper training, it is desirable to change that terrifying transistion, into a total transformation, i.e. rebirth, realization, and etc.
Unfortunately, I think it is too tempting to abuse psychoactives while offering the excuse that it is being used for spiritual training. Any prolonged use of psychedilics would probably degrade the quality of meditation to some degree, so it is probably best, like with all things, to use it in moderation.


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Kiss the ring Bitch!



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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3460856 - 12/07/04 07:27 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I dunno, i prefer Tao.
Because i was born and raised 20th century Americano
And it just seems silly to adopt a culture/way of life that is from the (ancient) far East.
Its all about going with the flow.
When Ancient Oriental peoples went with the flow, Things like Buddhism were the natural result.
When some American dude goes with the flow, the result is something like Hunter S. Thompson!!  :smile: :smile:
Or just a laid back counter culture person in general.

I know, cuz my dad is buddhist.  He has a little buddhist group he's involved with.  But the funny thing is that he is a skinny, white dork who grew up in the South; raised on Corn Bread and Christianity.
Its still good for him i think.  But its not natural.  The culture does not naturally arise.
Thats why i've always thought that the post-modern, west coast (california  :smirk: ) breed of buddism was a bit silly.


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:thumbup: :thumbdown:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: InnerBeing]
    #3460894 - 12/07/04 07:35 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

if you want to combine I reccommend using some salvia. the short duration prevents dissapation, and salvia kind of self limits especially if you are contemplative.

I also reccommend ignoring bardos except as they arise in succession here on earth. Same as ignoring the jhanas, sure take note if they arize but not worth seeking or desiring.

one of the fruit of insight was abhidhamma which describes the succession of mind moments: in each arising and falling away there is a death and a rebirth. These need your attention during life, this is your path generically.

what is happenning with you is your path specifically but this is the degree of fine grain resolution of life, death, and rebirth from the point of view of vipassana.

did you ever hear the statement
"i die daily"
i think it was a quote from christ.
it relates here I think. directly.

the bardos are here, now. (actual body death is a fixation - something that changes all the rules so the players want to win - but we have to give up that one)
jhanas are irrelevant by products (but lots of fun!)
ongoing creation is the big rush. (& always happenning)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Great Scott]
    #3460931 - 12/07/04 07:43 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
...
I know, cuz my dad is buddhist. He has a little buddhist group he's involved with. But the funny thing is that he is a skinny, white dork who grew up in the South; raised on Corn Bread and Christianity.
Its still good for him i think. But its not natural. The culture does not naturally arise.
...




you can't buy buddhism
well you can pay for membership etc.
most ex christians and ex jews merely replace the one for another and end up rebuilding their churches from their unconscious minds.
lots of skinny dorks spending a whack of dough at dharma dhatu.
lots of fat ones too.
at least they wear good clothing and have some self respect.

I like TAO it is fundamentally the same thing but with the operative word being NATURE instead of the path even though TAO means PATH.

Hunter S? hmmm
well in Taoism they talk about circulation and concentration which is the same thing as samatha and vipassana.
being laid back is 1/2 of the path.
rising forward is called for too.
it's just nature-al


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3460982 - 12/07/04 07:49 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I started with Zen and now practice Tibetan Buddhism. Zen is very cool, and I think the best way to approach the concept of Emptiness, but it is not so good at creating positive states of mind such as Bodhichitta, and ultimately does not effect one's life very much.


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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3461196 - 12/07/04 08:32 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

"Buddhism Anyone?"

Yes, I'll have some. Well done and a baked potatoe with it please!


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3461329 - 12/07/04 09:03 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
I started with Zen and now practice Tibetan Buddhism. Zen is very cool, and I think the best way to approach the concept of Emptiness, but it is not so good at creating positive states of mind such as Bodhichitta, and ultimately does not effect one's life very much.



it could be some sect of christianity or judaism
if you have someone to show how it is done
they are all the same or at least all go to the same place as far as setting you on the path which continues....
Zen would work just as well as tibetan and vice versa.
(I have had both tibetan red hat teachers and zen and southern hinayana too, all good - I like the burmese style best... but had no live teachers (well the tibetan started with burmese))

do you know joko beck
http://www.willkefilm.de/index.html?willkefilm/englisch/beck.html
here is one super wise chick
no abstraction about fake voidness bullshit
(voidness is not bullshit but concepts about it are)
true zen
and connection with self and what is happenning.


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OfflineGomp Happy Birthday!
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: InnerBeing]
    #3461333 - 12/07/04 09:05 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

The moment One can not eksplain, is the moment One live.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Gomp]
    #3461667 - 12/07/04 10:24 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

very thorough red :smile:

I could definitely expand my own methods more :cool:


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OfflineInnerBeing
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: deff]
    #3462011 - 12/07/04 11:35 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I actually have attended one of Joko Beth's schools in Orange County, CA. She is wise indeed.
I was a monk in the Theravada tradition of Buddhism, it was a temporary ordination, as is customary in the Thai culture. My wife is Thai, I am not, but because of my Buddhist interests, I thought that I would give it a try. The ordination was of only a month, and I have gained allot from it, but oddly enough, it has also hindered my practice. I seem more distracted after the ordination by material things, routines, and etc... I was better focussed before it.
Red, you truly seem to know what you are writing about. I am glad to have met you on this board.


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Kiss the ring Bitch!



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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Gomp]
    #3462076 - 12/07/04 11:46 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
The moment One can not explain, is the moment One lives.




I love that one gomp!


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: InnerBeing]
    #3462144 - 12/08/04 12:00 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

This Jewish Christian Gnostic has had an Experience that was so powerful and so classically Tibetan Buddhist, that I wear a bracelet and a ring with the Great Mantra OM MANI PADMA HUM on them. And, whereas the living room reflects the Jewish Christian Gnostic mushroomic nature of our world view, the room that this computer is in [The Blue Room] is decorated with a few Hindu Yogic items, and a signed copy of Alex Grey's 'Theologue,' but mostly with Tibetan Buddhist wall hangings, Kalachakra mandalas and bronzes of Mahakala with his consort Vishnamata, flanked by Chenrezig (Avalokiteshvara) and White Tara. Gyuto monks chanting and Tibetan incense frequently suffuse the room.

We 'live' in the Living Room (mostly with guests), but the wood carved figures of yogis 'thinking' and 'meditating' that sit in the picture window of The Blue Room describe the activities that essentially go on in here. From The Blue Room, my posts emanate to The Shroomery.

Reconciling Christian identity with Buddhist understanding has been as difficult as reconciling an unbridled sexual desire for all beautiful women with one partner at a time in life. It is another unlikely conjunction of opposites in my psyche that condition one another, like being Jewish and Christian, or Christian and Pagan. I am all of these things, but prioritize and label myself according to the hierarchy with the most complete expression (for me) of Compassion at the top, or center.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (12/08/04 07:30 AM)


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OfflineBanJankri
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: InnerBeing]
    #3462564 - 12/08/04 01:40 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I started to get interested in zen buddhism recently by listening to audio recordings of alan watts. now i am reading his book. I must say I am pretty fascinated.


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Just let everything flow, just flow right to the center of everything. You gotta turn off your mind and relax, and then just float downstream...


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OfflinePed
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: InnerBeing]
    #3462627 - 12/08/04 01:54 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

It was an image of the one-thousand armed Avalokiteshvara that I had seen on a PBS program about the Dalai Lama which prompted me to type the word into Google image search. I was sitting at my computer at the time. Some very "trippy" images returned, and because they were "trippy", I placed one as my desktop background.

At this time, I was the stoner kid who lived in his parents' basement. That being so, within a week of placing the image of Avalokiteshvara on my desktop, I had the opportunity to encounter it while under the influence of psychedelic mushrooms. Under the influence of the mushrooms, the image appeared to possess such immense holiness, such sacred meaning, that it occupied my attention for hours. During that time, it felt as though "how to live" was being downloaded in to me.

Such profound experiences of "how to live" are common with psychedelic drugs. But this time around, I couldn't help but connect the experience with the Buddhist image. The way such immense wisdom and compassion seemed to emanate from a 1024 x 768 JPG image had piqued my interest, and before long I was reading my first book about Tibetan Buddhism.

And all the insights in those pages resonated with the same wisdom and the same compassion I felt that day. When I finished that book, I picked up another. And another. Real changes were starting to appear in my life, and before long I was in a seat at Central Library listening to a monk transmit the same lessons verbally. And his words resonated with the same wisdom and the same compassion felt in that first inspiring encounter with a JPG image. That monk became a very special friend, and for a time I was one of his assistants.

But it hasn't all be fruit, jam, biscuits and orange juice. I entered into the Tibetan Buddhist lifestyle with the idea that a bath spirituality would wash away all my problems, that I wouldn't have to apply any effort. When it became unavoidably clear that effort was needed, I applied it with the idea that method and rigor would put an end to all my problems. When it became unavoidably clear that method and rigor were meaningless without wisdom and compassion, there were some tremendous stumbling blocks. I didn't feel like I had the power or worthiness to cultivate wisdom nor compassion.

What's worse, I had alienated my family, friends, and even my spouse with my forays into Eastern religion. I had begun to preach at them, to tell them how to solve their problems. I had such confidence in the things I had been told that I wasn't able to understand that people only want to hear about "how to live" when they ask "how to live."

The problem was that I was in this thing because I wanted to get away from my problems, instead of getting through them. Buddhism teaches you how to get through your problems. When you try to use Buddhism to get away from your problems, Buddhism seems to ring with this shrill dissonance that calls attention to your priorities.

And so I took a major step back. I had entered into the whole ordeal with many bad motivations and wrong ideas. I needed to get my priorities straight. Now, I approach the matter lightly, and occasionally I try to distract myself in other things. It's appropriate to be patient, and to be prepared to encounter anything on the path. Dharma is always turning in the back of my mind now; it has it's influence over just about everything I do. Not a day goes by without Dharma offering itself as a unique lens through which to view common situations. The way it seems to function like part of my mental anatomy: I hope it never stops.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Ped]
    #3462780 - 12/08/04 02:30 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Ped

you describe the natural process of gentle awakening.
a sustainable approach.
a path one worth taking.

the retreat, then a return with vigor to home is classic.
meantime the subtle shifts in attitudes makes possible ongoing
awareness.


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OfflineNomad
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: InnerBeing]
    #3464204 - 12/08/04 01:26 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I think the teaching of the Buddha is lost and has to be rediscovered.


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OfflineGomp Happy Birthday!
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Nomad]
    #3464370 - 12/08/04 02:01 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

lost in translation?
did budda leave a living library behind? :P
once heard of budda, then i heard the 'whole story' of budda, was amazed.. so much difrent teaching in the same wrapping.
love "budda's" 'equal to yin yang' :wink:
that instrument of a string, to tight it snapped, to loose it sound, but if one get it right in between, a harmonic sound came forth..


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OfflineNomad
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Gomp]
    #3464511 - 12/08/04 02:31 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

did budda leave a living library behind?

Who knows? On the night of the historical Buddha Shakyamuni's awakening, he remembered that he had been a monk under the previous Buddha Kassapa in a former lifetime, and so he "inherited" the Dhamma, downloading it from his memories. If that is possible, then the universe is indeed a living library - there must be some folks around who were monks under Buddha Shakyamuni.

that instrument of a string, to tight it snapped, to loose it sound, but if one get it right in between, a harmonic sound came forth..

Right on! :thumbup:


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OfflineGomp Happy Birthday!
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Nomad]
    #3464629 - 12/08/04 02:48 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Shakyamuni's?

hum, did he spend his childhood inside a palace, protected from old age, deices and death?
was he the one, who on his first journey outside the protected 'fantasy' facade inside the palace, started his quest, as he saw work and toil for the first time, seeing a plow, plowing the earth, and un-earthing a worm, that a bird picked up and ate, and thought, this is the world! like that bird, would not have gotten that food, if not the man toiled and struggled whit the earth, so is everything connected as the whole! ? something like that in short and rather messy? then under a tree, realizing, fear is fear itself, and that we need not live in suffer?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Gomp]
    #3464758 - 12/08/04 03:16 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

since the whole book is inside
the living library was always there.

the buddha was one of the early
lenders at that library in this era.

I would avoid considering akashic records for a better copy of the one you already got


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OfflineInnerBeing
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3465357 - 12/08/04 05:21 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

The Buddha was not the one and only awakened being, he was a single realized teacher from along a long line of Buddhas, that resided in various times, places, and dimensions. Buddhas from the past, present, and future have been around for countless "kalpas." ( A kalpa is the length of time that it takes to create and destroy an entire universe.) Out of compassion, these enlightened beings have risen to the call to deliver the suffering masses from their lives of pain and delusion.
It is likely that he inherited the teachings by connecting to the "clear awareness," that which is realized by all enlightened beings. This clear or perfect awareness, is often called the dharmakaya....the clear light. All things phenomenon are manifestations of this clear light, hence to understand dharmakaya, we understand all things.
The transmissions of Buddha's teachings have been long debated. Thus, many different schools have been founded that all have claimed that they have the accurate transmission. There is little to argue, because all transmissions are entirely accurate, because the Buddha expounded the Dharma in 84,000 different methods of teaching, for the 84,000 different types of personalities that he encountered during teaching.
In Theravada, the transmission that they received was the one spoken directly through the Buddha's speach. The Vajrayana students, claim to have received the message via telepathic transmission. So it is difficult to say, firstly, how Buddha received the transmission of dharma, and lastly, how he chose to transmit it to all sentient beings.
I am so happy to see the interest in this thread I started. I thank you all for your contributions and thoughts on Buddhism. Hopefully, we can discuss all these matters further, and allow all activities to flourish!


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Kiss the ring Bitch!



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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: InnerBeing]
    #3465778 - 12/08/04 06:34 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

The number 84,000 is derivative of the earlier Indian Yoga teachings which say that there are 84,000 different asanas or bodily positions as are taught in Hatha Yoga. Numbers that recur in any tradition are usually indicative of a numerologic significance, a symbolism of some sort and should not be taken so literally. Yoga sutras also say there are 72,000 nadis or subtle astral nerves in the body. Yogi Sri Chinmoy once claimed to have perceived them inwardly up to several thousand, but tired of counting and took the rest on faith. Bulls**t I say to the meanderings of cult yogis. The Bible cites 144,000 heavenly mansions in Heaven. The Jehova's Witnesses, for example, determined that the 'No Vacancy' sign went up in 1938 - Heaven is all filled up, and therefore Jehova will instead renew the Earth so we can all live in agrarian paradise forever (until the sun goes supernova at any rate). Same kind of symbolism-taken-literally kind of thing I'm afraid.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineInnerBeing
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3465826 - 12/08/04 06:39 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

So you dispute the 84,000 different teachings. The number is truly irrellevant as it is merely a carry over from the Hindu faith, as are many aspects of Buddhism. We shouldn't get too hung up on numbers I guess, however, I will leave it at this; Buddha taught in countless ways, to countless beings. Whether this adds up to 84,000, I really can't say. The number is mainly just another symbol among many other symbols in Buddhism.
Like you mentioned, many religions seem to use patterns of numbers to convey ideas. The Holy Trinity, The Eightfold Path, The Four Noble Truths, The Three Jewels, The Heaven of 77 Virgins, and the list can go on and on. What value these numbers represent, is definately debatable, but why waste our time arguing the symbology, when we should be focussing on the substance of the teachings, and not the number of them.
I used the number 84,000 to express the great multitude of Buddhist teachings, but maybe I should have ommitted that number to avoid an argument based on the sum of all teachings.


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Kiss the ring Bitch!



Edited by InnerBeing (12/08/04 06:46 PM)


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OfflineInnerBeing
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Gomp]
    #3465984 - 12/08/04 06:59 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
Shakyamuni's?

hum, did he spend his childhood inside a palace, protected from old age, deices and death?
was he the one, who on his first journey outside the protected 'fantasy' facade inside the palace, started his quest, as he saw work and toil for the first time, seeing a plow, plowing the earth, and un-earthing a worm, that a bird picked up and ate, and thought, this is the world! like that bird, would not have gotten that food, if not the man toiled and struggled whit the earth, so is everything connected as the whole! ? something like that in short and rather messy? then under a tree, realizing, fear is fear itself, and that we need not live in suffer?



There may be some confusion regarding the many titles that the historic Buddha has. To clear this up let me offer my explanation of the many names that we have come to know Buddha by.
Guatama Siddhartha is the Buddha's birthname, and he was a descendent of the Shakya clan.
Shakyamuni is a title that translates into "sage of the Shakya clan." This refers to Buddha as a teacher.
Tathagata is pali for "Thus Come One." This is an honorific title for He who has come and attained the perfect wisdom.
Oh and lastly, Buddha simply means: The Awakened One.
All of what you mentioned occured in the lives of Shakyamuni, Siddhartha, Tathagata, and the Buddha, because they are all the same entity.


--------------------
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Edited by InnerBeing (12/08/04 07:00 PM)


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Ped]
    #3465994 - 12/08/04 07:01 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ped said:


At this time, I was the stoner kid who lived in his parents' basement. That being so, within a week of placing the image of Avalokiteshvara on my desktop, I had the opportunity to encounter it while under the influence of psychedelic mushrooms. Under the influence of the mushrooms, the image appeared to possess such immense holiness, such sacred meaning, that it occupied my attention for hours. During that time, it felt as though "how to live" was being downloaded in to me.





Interesting. I will be recieving an Avalokiteshvara empowerment on Saturday.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineInnerBeing
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3466178 - 12/08/04 07:23 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

That is excellent! Wish you well on your empowerment, Avalokiteshvara, Chenrezig, is one of the most profound empowerments to receive.


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OfflineInnerBeing
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Ped]
    #3466216 - 12/08/04 07:28 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ped said:
It was an image of the one-thousand armed Avalokiteshvara that I had seen on a PBS program about the Dalai Lama which prompted me to type the word into Google image search. I was sitting at my computer at the time. Some very "trippy" images returned, and because they were "trippy", I placed one as my desktop background.

At this time, I was the stoner kid who lived in his parents' basement. That being so, within a week of placing the image of Avalokiteshvara on my desktop, I had the opportunity to encounter it while under the influence of psychedelic mushrooms. Under the influence of the mushrooms, the image appeared to possess such immense holiness, such sacred meaning, that it occupied my attention for hours. During that time, it felt as though "how to live" was being downloaded in to me.

Such profound experiences of "how to live" are common with psychedelic drugs. But this time around, I couldn't help but connect the experience with the Buddhist image. The way such immense wisdom and compassion seemed to emanate from a 1024 x 768 JPG image had piqued my interest, and before long I was reading my first book about Tibetan Buddhism.

And all the insights in those pages resonated with the same wisdom and the same compassion I felt that day. When I finished that book, I picked up another. And another. Real changes were starting to appear in my life, and before long I was in a seat at Central Library listening to a monk transmit the same lessons verbally. And his words resonated with the same wisdom and the same compassion felt in that first inspiring encounter with a JPG image. That monk became a very special friend, and for a time I was one of his assistants.

But it hasn't all be fruit, jam, biscuits and orange juice. I entered into the Tibetan Buddhist lifestyle with the idea that a bath spirituality would wash away all my problems, that I wouldn't have to apply any effort. When it became unavoidably clear that effort was needed, I applied it with the idea that method and rigor would put an end to all my problems. When it became unavoidably clear that method and rigor were meaningless without wisdom and compassion, there were some tremendous stumbling blocks. I didn't feel like I had the power or worthiness to cultivate wisdom nor compassion.

What's worse, I had alienated my family, friends, and even my spouse with my forays into Eastern religion. I had begun to preach at them, to tell them how to solve their problems. I had such confidence in the things I had been told that I wasn't able to understand that people only want to hear about "how to live" when they ask "how to live."

The problem was that I was in this thing because I wanted to get away from my problems, instead of getting through them. Buddhism teaches you how to get through your problems. When you try to use Buddhism to get away from your problems, Buddhism seems to ring with this shrill dissonance that calls attention to your priorities.

And so I took a major step back. I had entered into the whole ordeal with many bad motivations and wrong ideas. I needed to get my priorities straight. Now, I approach the matter lightly, and occasionally I try to distract myself in other things. It's appropriate to be patient, and to be prepared to encounter anything on the path. Dharma is always turning in the back of my mind now; it has it's influence over just about everything I do. Not a day goes by without Dharma offering itself as a unique lens through which to view common situations. The way it seems to function like part of my mental anatomy: I hope it never stops.



I had similiar introductions to Buddhism, and when I became a Tibetan Buddhist practicioner I went through the same alienation that you went through. I thought it was my cure for all problems, and I diligently studied, meditated and chanted, but I pretty much burnt myself out after a year. Now, I am refreshed and looking at things more objectively. I am trying to ease back into it for the right reasons. I am sure that you can relate!
Hopefully, I will get back to my root teacher soon, and begin the skillful activities once again.


--------------------
Kiss the ring Bitch!



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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: InnerBeing]
    #3466421 - 12/08/04 08:06 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Hum........... I have read this entire thread and have many questions.
Very intresting

:smile:

Where is Buddha now ?


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3466517 - 12/08/04 08:19 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Buddha is an enlightened being so he exists in three forms: his Truth Body which pervades all space and time and is completely at One with the Universe, his Enjoyment Body, which is sort like a spiritual emanation that only superior spiritual beings like Boddhisatvas can experience, and finaly his Enjoyment body eminates countless Form Bodies, which are physical bodies that you and I can see. He can manifest himself any physical object of living being, but ordinary minds only percieve these forms as ordinary things.

Because Buddha is everywhere, and also one with all minds, if you imagine that Buddha is in the room with you, then he really is. :smile:


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineInnerBeing
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3466854 - 12/08/04 09:19 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Fucknuckle said:
Hum........... I have read this entire thread and have many questions.
Very intresting

:smile:

Where is Buddha now ?



  I cannot answer that question for you because any answer that I have to offer would be false.  My answers for that question stem from my own understanding, my own perceptions, and from the reality that has been created by my own thoughts.  Buddha exsists wherever you believe he exsists.  If you believe that he does not exsist, then he surely does not.  Answer this question for yourself and you will find exactly where Buddha is.
  "With our thoughts, we create the world"


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3466903 - 12/08/04 09:28 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Wow that is confusing but I have found some good sites about this and will be reading. More to follow.............


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Gomp]
    #3467318 - 12/08/04 10:42 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

hum, did he spend his childhood inside a palace, protected from old age, deices and death? was he the one, who on his first journey outside the protected 'fantasy' facade inside the palace, started his quest, as he saw work and toil for the first time, seeing a plow, plowing the earth, and un-earthing a worm, that a bird picked up and ate, and thought, this is the world! like that bird, would not have gotten that food, if not the man toiled and struggled whit the earth, so is everything connected as the whole! ? something like that in short and rather messy? then under a tree, realizing, fear is fear itself, and that we need not live in suffer?

Yup, that sounds like Shakyamuni.


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OfflineInnerBeing
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Nomad]
    #3467416 - 12/08/04 11:03 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Yikes! I didn't mean to confuse you. You will probably get a different answer from different people concerning Buddhism because there are so many ways to follow this lifestyle. Some people may tell you that where Buddha is now; is not important. Others may say that his life, teachings, and death are of uttmost importance. That is why I think it is best that you research this on your own and come up with your own conclusions. I don't want to preach my own beliefs onto you.
Good luck in your studies, hope you find some answers to share with us!


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Kiss the ring Bitch!



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OfflineNomad
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: InnerBeing]
    #3467453 - 12/08/04 11:10 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

In Theravada, the transmission that they received was the one spoken directly through the Buddha's speach. The Vajrayana students, claim to have received the message via telepathic transmission. So it is difficult to say, firstly, how Buddha received the transmission of dharma, and lastly, how he chose to transmit it to all sentient beings.

In my opinion, the problem with the whole of Mahayana (which includes Vajrayana) is that it is essentially a channeled religion. That does not necessarily mean that the Mahayana Sutras are not authentic. According to the Pali, the Buddha taught a lot of deities, being a "teacher of men and gods alike". Since heavenly beings probably have a much longer lifespan, these teachings must still be around. (Hey, I just love cosmology.) Still, one should approach the Mahayana Sutras with care, just as any other channeled material. While I googled for hell last week, I found that the Lotus Sutra, in particular, has some very nasty parts - if you treat the Lotus Sutra with disrespect, you will, at the dissolution of the body,

"enter the Avici hell, For a complete kalpa; Reborn at each kalpa's end, They thus go on revolving Unto innumerable kalpas; When they come out of hell, They will degrade into animals, Such as dogs or jackals, With lean-cheeked forms, Blue-black with scabs and sores, The sport of men; Moreover by men Hated and scorned, Ever suffering hunger and thirst, Bones and flesh withered up. Alive, beaten with thorns, Dead, with shards and stones;"

And that's just for mistreating a scripture. I wonder what happened to the historical Shakyamuni's teaching in the Kalama Sutta?

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe simply because it has been handed down for many generations. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumoured by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is written in Holy Scriptures. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of Teachers, elders or wise men. Believe only after careful observation and analysis, when you find that it agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all. Then accept it and live up to it."

There are some parts in the Mahayana which seem to be an improvement to the historical teaching, correcting the parts which were distorted through the necessity of the Buddha not alienating himself from the culture in which he teached. But other parts represent a weakening of the Dhamma. For example, in the Pali, it is very clear that you should not kill. That's an easy rule, really: Whatever happens, wherever you are, do not kill. (But how different the world would be if everyone remembered just this one simple rule!). The Mahayanas replaced this with a complex utilitarian teaching, all too easy to be misused - as, in fact, has already happened in the history of Zen.


Edited by Nomad (12/08/04 11:17 PM)


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OfflineInnerBeing
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Nomad]
    #3467898 - 12/09/04 12:33 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I think this is why you need to embrace all vehicles of Buddhism for their own strengths, and take from them all the tools that pertain to your own quest for realization.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: InnerBeing]
    #3467920 - 12/09/04 12:37 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

As a student of comparative religions, I believe that Buddhism is the most perfect one the world has seen. The philosophy of the theory of evolution and the law of karma are far superior to any other creed.
~Dr. C. G. Jung, Swiss Psychologist



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineNomad
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: InnerBeing]
    #3467996 - 12/09/04 12:47 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I think this is why you need to embrace all vehicles of Buddhism for their own strengths, and take from them all the tools that pertain to your own quest for realization.

Exactly.  :thumbup:

I believe both Theravada and Mahayana are equally far removed from the Buddha's original teaching. Ultimately, all the existing traditions are different interpretations of the Pali, and we should work with all of them, in order to come up with our own.


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OfflineInnerBeing
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Nomad]
    #3468277 - 12/09/04 01:40 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

interesting quote. here is another....

"Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in the cosmic religion for the future: It trancends a personal God, avoids dogma and theology; it covers both the natural and the spiritual, and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity."
?Albert Einstein


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3469034 - 12/09/04 06:55 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Fucknuckle said:
Hum........... I have read this entire thread and have many questions.
Very intresting

:smile:

Where is Buddha now ?




hey knuckle,
you are one smart cookie!

peek a boo

yes - (t)here is the church and that whole infrastructure, and the social milieu that it floats on (like this board & this thread even), and someplace in there - you need to be a smart cookie, there is the buddha and the path, but everywhere else too.

the church bazarr carnival is intoxicating

very consistent posting mr. knuckle


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OfflineInnerBeing
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Nomad]
    #3469633 - 12/09/04 11:16 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Nomad said:
I think this is why you need to embrace all vehicles of Buddhism for their own strengths, and take from them all the tools that pertain to your own quest for realization.

.

I believe both Theravada and Mahayana are equally far removed from the Buddha's original teaching. Ultimately, all the existing traditions are different interpretations of the Pali, and we should work with all of them, in order to come up with our own.



Right! That is my interpretation of this as well. There is no one right way to go about this...there are thousands!


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OfflineNomad
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3469918 - 12/09/04 12:28 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

So the Buddha is gone while Christ is still around, but this whole retreating into the heavens thing isn't that user friendly either. I mean, if the second coming happens tomorrow, it's still two thousand years too late, right? I bet even Maitreya will make it before Christ.


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OfflineInnerBeing
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: Nomad]
    #3473849 - 12/10/04 01:05 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, the man J.C. is a wee bit late. I would welcome either one! They are both cool in my book.


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Invisibleninjapixie
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: InnerBeing]
    #3474733 - 12/10/04 05:00 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

My sig explains what I think of Buddhism.


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Put that monkey back in the oven.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3474867 - 12/10/04 06:41 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ninjapixie said:
My sig explains what I think of Buddhism.




a couple of hours is all it takes to have a thousand lives.
this is the esence of annata (no self)


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OfflineInnerBeing
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Re: Buddhism Anyone? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3477582 - 12/10/04 06:59 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

one life passes in a blink of an eye!


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