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OfflineJCoke
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buddhism
    #3650934 - 01/20/05 12:13 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

my story, i'll keep it short.

my older brother and me were both raised christian in a christian home.

were both older now and i'm still christian (as in, I believe in father, son and holy ghost,,,i don't go to church and I rarely crack open the bible,,,and i'm alot more open minded than say the sterotypical ned flanders type.)

but recently my brother and I were talking and he told me about how for awhile now he just dumped all his beliefs and said "fuck them", to many meaningless laws and rules that christians today find excuses to not keep and a God who's word never change's, change's a hell of alot.

anyways, now I don't now much about buddhism, but from what I understand, it's not a religion with God's and statue's to be worshipped and crap, but focus's more on wisdom, it teaches to look inside yourself to find right from wrong and all that stuff, right? and according to the Bible, God made a new covenant that says "with this new covenant I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds, Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.",,,so I always figured, from a christian point of view, buddhist are doing the right thing, probally more buddhist in heaven than there are of people who claim to be "christian".

but anyways, so I was telling my brother he should look into buddhism, he's really interested, personaly, i think i was right and was the right thing to do. is this fucked up? from a christian point of view do you think it was wrong of me? from a buddhist (or any other) do I not now my shit about buddhism and should have kept my mouth shut? just curious...


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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OfflineIamHungry
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Re: buddhism [Re: JCoke]
    #3651090 - 01/20/05 12:47 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not sure about the "Christian standpoint" but I'd say that's a very very broad overview of Buddhism. It's accurate, but true Buddhism goes way farther than I think most people who aren't familiar with it realize.

If he's interested in it then why wouldn't it be right? If he ends up not liking it there's no harm done, and if he ends up liking it he'll feel more spiritually empowered.


--------------------
Here comes the sun, do n do do,
Here comes the sun, and I say,
It's alright...


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InvisiblePaou
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Registered: 09/23/04
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Re: buddhism [Re: JCoke]
    #3651133 - 01/20/05 12:55 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Interesting fact: Many people, particularly recent Asian immigrants who are brought over with the help of church organizations, consider themselfs both Christian AND Buddhist. To them, there is no contradiction.


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Invisiblespudamore
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Re: buddhism [Re: Paou]
    #3651167 - 01/20/05 01:03 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

why is it contradiction? how do you know that they HAVE to follow both faiths according to their scriptures? maybe they get best of both religions and weed out what doesn't work for them.


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


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OfflineJCoke
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Re: buddhism [Re: IamHungry]
    #3651168 - 01/20/05 01:04 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not sure about the "Christian standpoint" but I'd say that's a very very broad overview of Buddhism. It's accurate, but true Buddhism goes way farther than I think most people who aren't familiar with it realize.

how do you mean way farther? care to elaborate more?


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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OfflineJCoke
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Re: buddhism [Re: Paou]
    #3651177 - 01/20/05 01:05 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Paou said:
Interesting fact: Many people, particularly recent Asian immigrants who are brought over with the help of church organizations, consider themselfs both Christian AND Buddhist. To them, there is no contradiction.




hmm, that is very very interesting.


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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OfflineJCoke
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Re: buddhism [Re: spudamore]
    #3651204 - 01/20/05 01:11 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

why is it contradiction? how do you know that they HAVE to follow both faiths according to their scriptures? maybe they get best of both religions and weed out what doesn't work for them.

so what are you saying? you can take stuff you like, like don't murder and steal but "weed out" stuff like don't get drunk and don't be sexually immoral?


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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Invisiblespudamore
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Re: buddhism [Re: JCoke]
    #3651228 - 01/20/05 01:17 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

that is up to you not me


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


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OfflinePed
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Re: buddhism [Re: spudamore]
    #3651414 - 01/20/05 02:13 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

>> why is it contradiction?

Buddhism and modern Christianity conflict on the surface because, among other reasons, Christianity believes itself to be the only route into heaven. It's from this belief that Christianity teaches that other religions are tickets to hell. Buddhism is a religion which, like most religions of the East, has the flexibility to assimilate other schools of thought into it's own. Hinduism is perhaps the best example of this, itself being a culmination of dozens of different religious schools, including Buddhism, over the course of centuries.

Interestingly enough, both Buddha and Jesus claimed that the only path to heaven was through them. The difference is that most modern day Christians take this to a literal extreme, while most modern day Buddhists see this as a facet of the wisdom Buddha held, and not an attribute of Siddartha himself. Many Buddhists believe that both Jesus and Buddha were purveyors of the same ultimate insight. I would suspect that a number of Christians share this view.


>> from a christian point of view do you think it was wrong of me?

From the Christian point of view I was raised with, pointing your brother toward Buddhism is definitely a very wrong thing to do. If Christianity is the only way into heaven, then Buddhism must certainly be a fast-track into hell. What you need to recognize, I think, is that this point of view is optional. Common Christians see their own religion as the only true religion. Uncommon Christians see their religion as one among a rich tapestry of others, all equally valuable in their potential for good. In this context, you have the option to be either a common Christian, or an uncommon Christian.

The fact that you are sincerely pondering this matter already qualifies you as an uncommon Christian, I think. This might seem unfair to or biased against Christians, but I think it's true nonetheless.

Buddhism appealed to me precisely because the emphasis was on the insight Buddha gained, instead of on Buddha himself. Rather than trying to satisfy Buddha so that he'll "let us in on the secret", as many Christians expect of Jesus, we are to emulate him so that we might make the same great discoveries as he. This seemed much more attractive, because it gives a person the freedom to grow and make mistakes without the constant burden of shame and self-rapproach.

So, from the Buddhist point of view, I think you did a wonderful thing by pointing your friend toward Buddhism. While he could also gain many great things by following Jesus and his teachings, there are very few resources avaliable which convey Christ's teachings in an authentic fashion. Buddhism, in my opinion, is still very much alive and pure, and with a little work it's not difficult to find a school that will impart some very profound and life-changing spiritual ideas.


--------------------


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: buddhism [Re: Ped]
    #3651480 - 01/20/05 02:25 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Ped said:
Buddhism is a religion 




I have 2 friends who follow Buddhism they have stated many times that "It is not a religion, it is a way of life that you may chose to follow!"

As religion is defined as "a belief in divine entities" that would mean Buddhism is not a religion, can anybody clear this matter up??? :confused:


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: buddhism [Re: JCoke]
    #3651517 - 01/20/05 02:33 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

No offence but why take any 1 of hundreds of ancient texts and claim they are the sole truth?

Ever since the human became self aware we have seeked to answer lifes biggest questions, Why and how are we here. Every different culture has found its own way of explaining this. Have you ever considered that it is an inherent feature of the human ego to rationalise existance?


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OfflinePed
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Re: buddhism [Re: Ego Death]
    #3651636 - 01/20/05 03:18 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

>> As religion is defined as "a belief in divine entities" that would mean Buddhism is not a religion, can anybody clear this matter up???

Tibetan Buddhists believe in divine entities, although this alone does not qualify Tibetan Buddhism as a religion. Much more so, Tibetan Buddhism is a religion in the sense that it is an order; it has it's own spiritual hierarchy designed to maximize conveyance of the teachings of a specific figure. Zen Buddhism can be seen as a religion in this way, along with Jodo Shinshu, Pure Land, and other schools. Linguistically speaking, Buddhism in it's organized form is religious in nature.


>> "It is not a religion, it is a way of life that you may chose to follow!"

That his teachings were a way of life, this is the context under which Buddha presented his ideas. The religious schools that formed around his teachings exist to celebrate their value, to preserve their integrity, and to offer an avenue for anyone interested to pursue them to whatever degree they choose.

At present, many of us have the notion that religion implies some kind of requisite devotion, that one is a member of a religion not because they have any special wish to be, but because they are terrified of not being a member of their religion, whether it be a fear of hell, or of rejection from family, or some other binding factor. We seem to have it in our heads that religion is bondage, and that since Buddhism is not bondage, Buddhism is not religion. I think we need to throw all of this out and put our thoughts into more worthwhile things.

That Buddhism is a religion or not: who cares? Does a label change what's in the box?


--------------------


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InvisibleClark
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Re: buddhism [Re: Ped]
    #3652306 - 01/20/05 06:15 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The main problem with I see with calling Buddhism a religion is that it's a Western word designed to convey Western concepts. When you say the word "religion", Westerners automatically think about God (or gods) and the destination of the soul after death. If you explain these two things, you've given the basics of a religion as far as many Westerners are concerned. Yet neither of those things is central to Buddhism. So when alot of Westerners hear Buddhism described as a religion, they focus on paripheral stuff like reincarnation and the image of saffron cloaked monks chanting before pot-bellied Buddha idols. They try to shoe-horn it to fit thier idea of what a religion is, thereby missing the main point entirely.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: buddhism [Re: JCoke]
    #3652368 - 01/20/05 07:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Perhaps, as food-for-thought, you and your brother could buy a copy of BE HERE NOW. It provides the perspective of the discipline called 'Philosophy of Religion' in a mystical way. That is to say, it highlights the "Transcendent Unity of Religions" rather than the doctrinal differences. While it does gloss over the differences, it does present a very useful point of view.

Remember that one cannot in all integrity to oneself go shopping for a religion that seems to make less demands of its adherents. Just because Buddhism doesn't portray a punishing GOD, there ARE Hells in Buddhism, not to mention other realms besides this one. Buddhism's demands for morality, non-use of intoxicants and even more control of thoughts and emotions make its practice no less rigorous than serious Christian's. Today's saying by the Dalai Lama (that I receive from Snow Lion) points out that Enlightenment for Buddha took 'three endless aeons.' Whether this is typical mythic language or literal belief does drive home the point that the 'short path' does not work. Now, I've read elsewhere that Vajrayana practitioners can leave the Wheel of Life in one lifetime - as Christianity insists we do (since they threw out rebirth/reincarnation at an early point in Christian history). Also bear in mind the colloquial saying that 'there are no atheists in foxholes.' When push comes to shove, the Westerner rediscovers GOD, even through fear. And with that said, I must now leave for some surgery of my own! Yoga helps with my psychophysical agitation, but my faith in GOD sustains me from a deeper level. This is not a choice - it is the psyche [soul] I was born with (this time around :wink: ).


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: buddhism [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3652371 - 01/20/05 07:32 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I would recommend 'Openess Mind' by Tarthang Tulku, as this had no religious dogma and embodies the very essence of buddhism.


--------------------


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: buddhism [Re: Sinbad]
    #3652539 - 01/20/05 09:11 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

well dharma dhatu is totally full of dogma -
repackaged and americanized as processed cheese,
but there are lots of great ideas just the same.

you have to learn to live with dogmas
just don't let them get the upper hand.

and it is nice when they lick your face at times when you feel most alone.


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Anonymous

Re: buddhism [Re: JCoke]
    #3652966 - 01/20/05 11:39 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

This is my opinion, but I think you should have just left your brother to discover and forge his own path rather than picking up another pre-defined path or method.


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InvisiblePaou
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Re: buddhism [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3652986 - 01/20/05 11:47 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Also bear in mind the colloquial saying that 'there are no atheists in foxholes.'



Ahem... http://www.maaf.info/


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OfflineJCoke
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Re: buddhism [Re: Paou]
    #3653264 - 01/20/05 01:28 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Ped, thanks alot, what you said and that link on your sig helped alot, and yes, i'm defintaly an uncommon christian,,,or maybe i'm just not good at it? oh well, whatever..

Markos and Sinbad, i'll check out both be here now and openess mind, sounds great.


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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Offlinepsikooz
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Re: buddhism [Re: JCoke]
    #3653652 - 01/20/05 03:25 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Buddhism is a beginning, it teaches you suffering and the end of suffering, it teaches you how to find your path, it is only a tool, you do not worship buddha, you take his philosophies and use them to find your path.

I would think that buddha wouldnt want people to be called buddhists. I think that was against his ways of thinking. The 3 Nobel truths and the 8 fold path are all you need to get you started..


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