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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Hunting and Identification
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Possible mushroom poisoning
    #25584937 -

Folks,

I've been here quite a long time and I am not one to unnecessarily sound the alarm, but I wonder if I could get some assistance on an mushroom ID. Friend of a friend ingested the pictured mushrooms and became very ill 7 hrs post (vomiting and diarrhea). This individual has now been hospitalized and poison control is involved. The mushroom was originally thought to be a pine mushroom, but there is a concern that it might be an Amanita.

Of course I understand that this person might have become violently ill coincident with consuming these mushrooms and it might be a red herring for something else at play. Any assistance would be appreciated. Please forgive the double post as I also put this in the Pub as it tends to get more traffic.







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"What appears impenetrable to us does exist, manifesting itself in the deepest wisdom and the most radiant beauty" Einstein

"The conservatives of 70 years ago would be outraged at what has come to pass. It embodies everything they took up arms for to defeat"Asante


:kratom:

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Re: Possible mushroom poisoning [Re: pslyke] * 1
    #25584970 -

What is the spore print colour?


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Sample ID request - READ BEFORE POSTING AN ID REQUEST!

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Re: Possible mushroom poisoning [Re: Duggstar]
    #25584988 -

No clue, unfortunately. This individual is in the hospital and no opportunity to get it as they were consumed.


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"What appears impenetrable to us does exist, manifesting itself in the deepest wisdom and the most radiant beauty" Einstein

"The conservatives of 70 years ago would be outraged at what has come to pass. It embodies everything they took up arms for to defeat"Asante


:kratom:

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Re: Possible mushroom poisoning [Re: pslyke] * 1
    #25585016 -

Where in the world was this harvested? Other location details might also be helpful, like biome and what kinds of trees were nearby.

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Re: Possible mushroom poisoning [Re: Phenotype]
    #25585021 -

Whistler BC, forest area, no grass. Those are all the details I have. They hopped on a plane and flew to Toronto immediately there after and they are in a major hospital center.


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"What appears impenetrable to us does exist, manifesting itself in the deepest wisdom and the most radiant beauty" Einstein

"The conservatives of 70 years ago would be outraged at what has come to pass. It embodies everything they took up arms for to defeat"Asante


:kratom:

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Re: Possible mushroom poisoning [Re: pslyke] * 1
    #25585024 -

pslyke said:
No clue, unfortunately. This individual is in the hospital and no opportunity to get it as they were consumed.


Sorry, I just realised that was a stupid question.

I'm not an expert, but to me that looks likely to be an Amanita, that small one looks to have a very bulbous base and the other one looks a bit shaggy towards the base, and that ring doesn't look like an Agaricus or Leucoagaricus ring. I'm hoping I'm wrong though! Wait for a Trusted IDer.


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Sample ID request - READ BEFORE POSTING AN ID REQUEST!

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Re: Possible mushroom poisoning [Re: Duggstar] * 1
    #25585046 -

They way the cuticle on the larger one folds under the gills slightly leads me to believe Leucoagaricus. Never seen that on Amanitas before


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Moria's Gymnopilus Guide

Edited by Moria841 (11/01/18 07:46 PM)

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Re: Possible mushroom poisoning [Re: Duggstar] * 1
    #25585057 -

Looks like it could an Amanita in section Lepidella. Don’t know much about toxicity in those species of Amanitas. But a white Amanita? Really?

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Re: Possible mushroom poisoning [Re: Moria841] * 1
    #25585069 -

Moria841 said:
They way the ring on the larger one folds under the gills slightly leads me to believe Leucoagaricus. Never seen that on Amanitas before


You're talking about the veil remnants that are adhering to the cap margin, though, not the actual ring? The ring on a Leucoagaricus usually point outwards, as far as I know, not hanging skirtlike like that.


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Re: Possible mushroom poisoning [Re: Duggstar] * 1
    #25585081 -

My bad, meant the cuticle. I fixed it.
That type of structure is typically present in Agaricus and its allies. The annulus looks pretty ravaged to me, I don't think it's a good identifier anymore.


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Moria's Gymnopilus Guide

Edited by Moria841 (11/01/18 07:55 PM)

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Re: Possible mushroom poisoning [Re: Moria841] * 2
    #25585111 -

The big one doesn't have the bulbous base that I would expect to see on an Amanita virosa, though, hopefully it was something less poisonous! But there's a possibility I guess, that these are two different species. :shrug:


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Sample ID request - READ BEFORE POSTING AN ID REQUEST!

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Re: Possible mushroom poisoning [Re: Duggstar] * 2
    #25585139 -

Could this be Amanita smithiana with the veil remnants washed/rubbed off?

Edited by Phenotype (11/01/18 08:27 PM)

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Re: Possible mushroom poisoning [Re: cass_cm] * 1
    #25585193 -

cass_cm said:
Looks like it could an Amanita in section Lepidella.


Agreed, and there are certainly toxic species in that section.

Hoping for the best.

Edited by Ran-D (11/01/18 09:13 PM)

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Re: Possible mushroom poisoning [Re: Phenotype] * 1
    #25585202 -

Phenotype said:
Could this be Amanita smithiana with the veil remnants washed/rubbed off?


It very well could be.

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Re: Possible mushroom poisoning [Re: Ran-D]
    #25585215 -

Hey guys,

Really appreciate all the help and input on this. The individual is currently being treated as though they have consumed amatoxin. Not sure if poison control enlists the assistance of trained mycologists, but it would seem that the approach in this case was to treat as a critical situation until they know otherwise.

Based on feedback here, and the hunch I had that led me to posting this, the physicians approach was prudent.

Fingers crossed that this person pulls through and their kidney/liver isn't entirely nuked.

Situations like this certainly underline the importance of avoiding those edibles that have deadly lookalikes.

Best wishes all.


--------------------
"What appears impenetrable to us does exist, manifesting itself in the deepest wisdom and the most radiant beauty" Einstein

"The conservatives of 70 years ago would be outraged at what has come to pass. It embodies everything they took up arms for to defeat"Asante


:kratom:

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Re: Possible mushroom poisoning [Re: pslyke] * 1
    #25585229 -

Sending my  regards for a speedy recovery :sad:


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Psychedelics are a human rights of exploration, Just like sex and thinking.

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Re: Possible mushroom poisoning [Re: pslyke]
    #25585247 -

That looks like very bad news there... it certainly looks very, very much like a poisonous Amanita of some sort - they are absolutely, positively NOT pine mushrooms.

Amanita smithiana and Amanita silvacola are the likely suspects up here in the PNW.

You should show those photos to the physician treating your friend.

Hopefully he's been treated fast enough - best wishes.

Edited by Magic Badger (11/01/18 10:22 PM)

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Re: Possible mushroom poisoning [Re: Magic Badger]
    #25585261 -

Pictures have been supplied to physicians and poison control.

After spending many years here I have the utmost confidence in the Trusted Identifiers and some of the other amateur collectors. I figured you guys would have more of a clue than the physicians/poison control.

Given that there is little that can be done beyond supportive care at this point, fate perhaps comes down to a little bit of good luck.

I will circle back with an ID and/or outcome when I know more. I would expect this could take several days for some clarity to emerge.


--------------------
"What appears impenetrable to us does exist, manifesting itself in the deepest wisdom and the most radiant beauty" Einstein

"The conservatives of 70 years ago would be outraged at what has come to pass. It embodies everything they took up arms for to defeat"Asante


:kratom:

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Re: Possible mushroom poisoning [Re: pslyke] * 1
    #25585293 -

Amanita Smithiana definitely looks promising. Specimens definitely have that folded-under margin. If this is Smithiana, it is not Amatoxins but instead different chemicals which lead to RENAL FAILURE. This would be important information to know.

From Wikipedia: Amanita smithiana nephrotoxicity is from chlorocrotylglycine and allenic norleucine


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Moria's Gymnopilus Guide

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Re: Possible mushroom poisoning [Re: pslyke]
    #25585295 -

There are some new, actual treatments these days - get the doctors to look up the "Santa Cruz Protocol" and silibinin - if they don't know about this, it could save his liver, kidneys and his life...

https://news.ucsc.edu/2017/03/mitchell-todd-alumni-profile.html

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00915681


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Disclaimer - I'm just a hobbyist and cannot absolutely guarantee any ID offered. I'm most familiar with the species found in the Pacific Northwest - those found in other parts of the world may vary considerably, so always do your own research to find out what grows in your area and what lookalikes you need to be aware of. Understand that many mushroom species cannot be 100% reliably identified by photographs alone, even by an expert, so it may not be possible to go beyond suggesting a probable genus.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Hunting and Identification
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