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Re: Is an anxiety disorder inherently the real me? [Re: Dr. Siekadellyk]
    #25551438 -

Alan watts has some interesting discussions about being a "quaking mess"... I.E. if you believe yourself to riddled with anxiety, then anything you set out to "do about it" are just mislead meanderings of an anxious person.

He has some other points that I think would resonate with you; youtube has lots of videos of his lectures set to music; very enjoyable to listen to.

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Re: Is an anxiety disorder inherently the real me? [Re: KetaminePeen]
    #25551441 -

KetaminePeen said:
I don't believe in anxiety/depression as mental illnesses or dysfunctions.
Those are both pieces of every human and they are as important as any other emotions.


We must look at our motivations for engaging in anxiety and depression.

Instead of believing we are a victim of defective biology.

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Re: Is an anxiety disorder inherently the real me? [Re: Cjmckay]
    #25551526 -

Hypnotherapy is not something you can do on your own, you need to find a competent hypnotherapist which one who is unafraid to utilize Age Regression in the service of a hypnoanalysis. I subscribe to a method called 5-Path™ which was developed by my first teacher Gerald Kein and his student Cal Banyan. It is a brilliant approach which works for me in 2-3 sessions including the worst type of traumas. The difficulty is not only finding someone trained in 5-Path™ because lots of people take the training but do not realize its efficacy and fail to use it as their primary technique. So if you find someone trained in that (perhaps going to Cal Banyan's site and inquiring), you still need to interview the prospective hypnotherapist and ask if they routinely use Age Regression and the 5-Path™ method.

Too many people are afraid to Age Regress and instead rely on suggestions and affirmations, but these do not uproot the trauma. You also should ask how many sessions they typically require, and be wary of paying anyone upfront or committing to a pre-set number of sessions. That is for the benefit of the therapist not the client. If I can eliminate a problem in 2 sessions, I'm not going to milk a client for more sessions, but that's just me. I'm an ethical practitioner and arguably a poor businessman as a consequence. I have often eliminated a problem that years of talking psychotherapy failed to eradicate. I used to do straight up psychotherapy myself for the first 4 years after getting licensed to practice. Hypnotherapy cuts through months or years of resistance.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Is an anxiety disorder inherently the real me? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #25552139 -

Why do suppose it's not more prevalent if it's so effective? I've only known one person that tried hypnotherapy. She said it helped for smoking. And then the high school principal that did it to his students. And three who committed suicide.
But I can see how getting to the early patterns that you've built your life around could help.


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Re: Is an anxiety disorder inherently the real me? [Re: Cjmckay]
    #25552282 -

learning to relax aware is the main thing - it can come with hypnosis, but if you can't relax aware, you can't address a situation with dignity.

Then, and it always comes by surprise, you find that you are not in the moment again, and need to begin to relax again, its like a constant opening that easily, naturally closes again.

defensiveness and anxiety can be relaxed through into something more gentle.

don't be demoralized - it's not easy, this being easy stuff (relaxing), but the more it is practiced, the better it works.

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Re: Is an anxiety disorder inherently the real me? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25552350 -

which henepola gunaratana books do you recommend?
i've been meditating a lot, but I don't seem to be that much closer to enlightenment

I would like to know where I am and what I can do to come a long way

sometimes the meditation has seemed to extinguish my ego
but sometimes is seems like I don't get glose to enlightenment by meditating

that being said I was walking this earth in a delicious way earlier and it was like we have it better than non-existence, you know yaya yada yada, that ferdinando stuff


--------------------
Make love not war
And art
Save the planet
Fix the earth

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Re: Is an anxiety disorder inherently the real me? [Re: Ferdinando]
    #25552355 -

henepola gunaratana seems to have done incredibly well

times 1000000

I wish I could get someone to say you have meditated 1000 of 2000 hours required for enlightenment


--------------------
Make love not war
And art
Save the planet
Fix the earth

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Re: Is an anxiety disorder inherently the real me? [Re: Ferdinando]
    #25552370 -

so many delicious tangents to ride out on, like growing mushrooms

but which is the most lucrative or profitable not just money wise but quality of universe wise is always easy to discern, but I am stuck a little, luckily there are no dead ends. but dissatisfaction with not better tangents

I have some death anxiety too

oh well, the only way I can make myself glad is by reminding myself that my surroundings are, the people working here are


--------------------
Make love not war
And art
Save the planet
Fix the earth

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Re: Is an anxiety disorder inherently the real me? [Re: Ferdinando]
    #25552388 -

don't have a goal in mind, you're exactly where you need to be right now, always

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Re: Is an anxiety disorder inherently the real me? [Re: Cjmckay]
    #25552395 -

The bizarre case in my state of Florida which attributed a school principal to be directly responsible for 3 suicides strikes me as completely spurious. One does NOT take a suggestion that one does not actively like. Neutral or averse suggestions will not be accepted. Would anyone suggest that someone kill themselves in hypnosis even if it could be done? :eek: It sounds like a noir or horror film from the 1930s and I have never seen such things in the classic literature. The only credible thing I can think of is that out of the population of kids he inappropriately subjected to hypnosis (without parental consent and with what credentials I don't know), those 3 kids had a budding psychosis, and by opening up the unconscious, uncontrolled material came forth. I discourage hypnosis when someone who inquires has a history of psychosis for this very reason, and if they've had a psychotic break in the past they certainly do not want to inadvertently precipitate another one.  https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/10/florida-high-school-suicides-followed-hypnosis-by-principal-lawsuit-settled-for-600000.html

The other popularized violation in the news was a hypnotist who allegedly raped his clients while they were entranced. Bullshit! If there is an emergency, a threat, a fire, etc., a person in Theta wave trance simply emerges herself, gets up and runs! I wrote an angry response to the facebook fan page of Law and Order: SVU, about episode 18, season 18, 'Spellbound,' which took its topic from the headlines. Again, I call bullshit on the chain of communication. The only time a hypnosis subject might not object to a sexual advance would be if they came with the hope that some hypnotist would indeed seduce them and they could use the hypnosis as an excuse for having sex with a stranger or with someone other than her husband in these cases.  https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/jun/18/martinwainwright

If I began to suggest, for example, that the room is becoming warmer and warmer and my subject should remove her blouse and bra and skirt, the average woman's eyes would open, she'd be horrified, indignant, probably slap me on the way out without paying, and then I could probably expect the police to show up, her lawyer to send me a letter of lawsuit, my licensing board calling me to the state capitol for an inquiry, and my wife to begin divorce proceedings. If I suggested the same thing to a sex-worker (I've had a couple as clients), she might take her clothes off without hesitation, but then she'd probably insist that I pay her fee, or threaten me with the same legal action the average woman would be justified in pursuing!

The last comment regards the relatively recent film Get Out, about a hypnotist using a method which involuntarily entrances her subjects which she then turns into imprisoned sex slaves! This is as credible as Bela Lugosi's Dracula character commanding Abraham van Helsing in the 1931 film. :lol:







--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Is an anxiety disorder inherently the real me? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #25552609 -

Mark, that hypnosis cannot harm is what hypnotists want the public to believe,
especially the hypnosis schools that require no knowledge of psychology.
And if one goes to a professional WITH a background in psychology the results MAY be positive.

On the other hand, when one looks at the alien abduction, revealed under hypnosis stuff, it is pretty clear, that some leading questions aka 'programing' is going on.

Also if we substitute the word suggestion for the word hypnosis, then it is very clear, that humans are very vulnerable to negative suggestion, and negative beliefs, and whatever it is that gets people into cults.

Also if we substitute the word propaganda for the word hypnosis, the negative effects are clear.

Suggestion is a very broad phenomenon, as is hypnosis. To claim that either is purely benign in all aspects seems naive. But of course, to gain trust and rapport, this myth is  often the convenient fiction of choice. There are of course other choices when it comes to building trust and rapport. But even hypnotists tend to repeat convenient habits.

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Re: Is an anxiety disorder inherently the real me? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25552930 -

This hypnotherapist has only one agenda, to promulgate the clinical efficacy of hypnotherapy and to dispel common misconceptions. The only danger that suggestions can engender would be if one asks an asthmatic to imagine lying down in a field of flowers that he is terribly allergic to and precipitate an asthma attack. Of course you can just as easily curtail such a thoughtless suggestion by any number of creative suggestions, like getting pulled up into the clear clean sky by helicopter, for example (one that my first teacher suggested).

I have been practicing hypnotherapy since 1989 but of course I never tried to harm anyone. I gave up too soon in my early days and let sleeping dogs lie as the expression goes, but THAT is what resulted in dysfunction, not completing the treatment. I do not believe the reports of damage because I am proficient enough to know how it works in praxis. Trance or no trance, a rapist is a rapist. Trance never changes a subject's morals or mores with perhaps only one exception, Dissociative Identity Disorder (formerly, Multiple Personality Disorder). Whatever you believe about hypnotists being sinister is you being misinformed, uninformed, or just plain paranoid about loss of control. Hypnosis helps people take back control over areas of their lives that they have lost control of. Having professional mental health credentials should mean adhering to a code of ethics, but that never stopped psychopaths like Dr. Joseph Mengele.

The unconscious IS susceptible to negative interpretation, so surgeons really have to be careful what they say even while their patient is under general anesthesia. The ears still function, the words go in and the unconscious can register a comment like "he'll never be the same again" in a strictly negative light instead of the positive meaning intended. Then malingering can occur, depression, all because the unconscious registered the words and interpreted them negatively. Hypnosis is neither propagandizing nor brainwashing, neither of which are positive processes as far as I'm concerned.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Is an anxiety disorder inherently the real me? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #25553186 -

redgreenvines said:
learning to relax aware is the main thing - it can come with hypnosis, but if you can't relax aware, you can't address a situation with dignity.

Then, and it always comes by surprise, you find that you are not in the moment again, and need to begin to relax again, its like a constant opening that easily, naturally closes again.

defensiveness and anxiety can be relaxed through into something more gentle.

don't be demoralized - it's not easy, this being easy stuff (relaxing), but the more it is practiced, the better it works.


Being a very guarded person, it took a couple years to not be afraid to look inside and just be. And your right, practice is almost the key. Especially for someone like me, always looking for instant gratification.


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Re: Is an anxiety disorder inherently the real me? [Re: Cjmckay]
    #25553364 -

Re: MarkTG--"Hypnosis is neither propagandizing nor brainwashing, neither of which are positive processes as far as I'm concerned."

Actually in my opinion all 3 fall under the umbrella of suggestion. Why?, because all 3 very intentionally avoid and circumvent the ability of  client/subject having access to or using their critical thinking capacity.

Similar processes occur in possession, faith healing, and  religious conversion for example. ** To single out formal 'therapeutic' hypnosis as exempt from any negative consequences, seems to be playing at semantics.
More commonly advertising is another obvious example, as are movies. One has only to try to talk to kids watching cartoons to realize how ubiquitous, the phenomenon of trance is. And the success of advertising again shows what a morally neutral phenomenon suggestion is.

Not only is there the evidence of the hypnotists who produce an inordinate number of 'victims of alien abduction', there is also the evidence of those who produce an inordinate number of cases alleging family sexual abuse leading to books on both subjects, and the discovery of: false memory syndrome.



**see for example:

The mind possessed;: A physiology of possession, mysticism, and faith healing Hardcover – 1974
by William Walters Sargant

Battle for the Mind: A Physiology of Conversion and Brainwashing - How Evangelists, Psychiatrists, Politicians, and Medicine Men Can Change Your Beliefs and Behavior Paperback – July 3, 2015
by William Sargant (Author), Charles Swencionis (Preface)

I'm not against hypnosis by qualified individuals in a safe context, however it seems obvious that like any tool, it can be misused, and at times is.

Edited by laughingdog (10/20/18 08:26 PM)

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Re: Is an anxiety disorder inherently the real me? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25553424 -

In fact some hypnotists themselves gave the game away,
namely the smart alecks  who founded NLP,
and boasted of playing tricks on waiters,
building rapport to get past defenses,
for purposes of sales and of course seduction.

Its right in their books.

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Re: Is an anxiety disorder inherently the real me? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25554230 -

Alien abductions are flashbacks to forceps births and or complicated births requiring medical intervention. Very simple.
I'm not going to discuss the McMartin Preschool fiasco, I'm not going to bother going there.

Not every hypnotist is a hypnotherapist. Not every hypnotherapist is competent or capable of effecting cures. Lots of hocus-pocus gets tagged hypnosis and I am not convinced that you have teased all of it apart. The difficulty is that hypnosis/hypnotherapy are unregulated unless they are being used in the context of a licensed profession. Expectation is part of the phenomenon and unscrupulous practitioners can do all manner of mind-fuck, confusing and irrelevant things to trusting people. Caveat Emptor!

I have personally experienced a manipulative asshole, ostensibly a male witch who decided to practice his manipulations on a trusting crowd in the early 70s. It began as a credible-sounding meditation, but pretty soon he began to introduce random absurd directions, like putting a piece of lint from one's knee into one's Heart Center. I stopped at that point, became indignant, and upbraided the jerk afterwards. So, yeah, there are psychopaths who want to control people, make fools out of people. But there are those who want to be made fools of too. There was a popular X-rated hypnotist I saw in college in NY in the 70s. The first hypnotist I saw made fools out of my junior high school peers as an entertainer in 1966 or '67, but he was a stage hypnotist, and like the X-rated guy, it is to be expected.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Is an anxiety disorder inherently the real me? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #25555867 -

MarkostheGnostic said:
Alien abductions are flashbacks to forceps births and or complicated births requiring medical intervention. Very simple.



Interesting theory
i found one reference
https://www.samwoolfe.com/2014/01/alien-abductions-and-dmt-experiences.html

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Re: Is an anxiety disorder inherently the real me? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25556327 -

laughingdog said:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Alien abductions are flashbacks to forceps births and or complicated births requiring medical intervention. Very simple.



Interesting theory
i found one reference
https://www.samwoolfe.com/2014/01/alien-abductions-and-dmt-experiences.html


My reference is based on the phone inquiries and descriptions of 'alien abductees' plus the work of Otto Rank and Stan Grof in particular, and a general knowledge of theories on the unconscious. I do not take on these people just for a fee. (Neither do I take on people who want to discover their past lives [they usually have a Hindu idiom of a transmigrating 'soul']).


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Is an anxiety disorder inherently the real me? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #25556718 -

Seems like 'food for thought', as they say.
I don't know Rank's work at all;
lucky me, another line of investigation.

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Re: Is an anxiety disorder inherently the real me? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25556793 -

laughingdog said:
Seems like 'food for thought', as they say.
I don't know Rank's work at all;
lucky me, another line of investigation.


This book is referenced in the 6th paragraph of the article you cited:

https://www.amazon.com/Trauma-Birth-Otto-Rank/dp/048627974X/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=

Alibris Books has the least expensive copy if you want paper and don't mind highlighting. http://www.bookfinder4u.com/IsbnSearch.aspx?isbn=048627974X&mode=direct


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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