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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Inflaton] * 1
    #25504807 -

Inflaton said:
pineninja said:
stop trying so hard to reconcile your rational mind and the irrational experiences you may have had.



That's the thing, I have not had any. Hallucinations, I had a lot, irrational experiences, I wouldnt say so :shrug: weirdness its kind of a known side-effect of mushrooms :lol: how is everyone else here not doubting their own sanit if you see weird shit all the time? :lol:

bishlap said:
This is the best thread in months, I knew I liked you inflation.







I came from a standpoint of the insufferable rationalist.

Science ftw dust to insignificant dust and boy was I content.


Then I had some experiences that definetly made me question my sanity and perhaps more importantly the notion of sanity itself.

I have not been able to reconcile the experiences but I have been able to compartmentalize them.

I have tangible responsibility that I am unwilling to walk away from.

I've been enriched by not being so banal.
I have had some amazing visions and learnings.....call them what you want.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: pineninja]
    #25504820 -

Posted this in another thread because it was on topic with the spiritual stuff discussed in it, though i feel it also applies here.



--------------------

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #25504868 -

I wonder how someone takes psychedelics and ends up this way? It's more interesting to me than anything :lol:

"A man who stands behind science rather than his own direct experience, may not be a man at all" There's something to be said about that. I would believe my own experience, over anything, even if it cannot be "proven" does not give right to disbelief, you are denying your own self - only when wearing the mask of Fear, that ones own reality could be such drastically different than one had originally conjured does one make such claims.


--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"

Edited by Eclipse3130 (10/01/18 10:31 PM)

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Eclipse3130] * 5
    #25504994 -

I didn't read all the comments but omg...

Your entire post is focusing on other people, their experiences and beliefs, and your judgement of it.

Why do people do this?

Walk your path and let others walk theirs in peace.

Why worry about if someone else is doing a,b, c, and d? There are so many more important things you could be worrying about...

Why do you care if someone has a view or belief you think is delusional ? How does worrying about that help you along your path?

Does it make you feel better about yourself to look at other people as if they are delusional fools compsred to you?

Because in reality that doesn't change in any way shape or form who and what you are, or where you are on your journey.

You should spend more time focusing on your self and working on your own flaws as opposed to focusing on others and their flaws.

That gets you nowhere fast.

Idk why I'm even wasting my time..


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Enkidu]
    #25505105 -

Spirituality isn't something bad, it's actually something that could be useful for modern society. Mental health issues is breathing down the neck of secular states and is becoming a huge problem, if psychedelics gives people comfort I don't really see why that's an issue.

In my own experience a lot of the people who meddle with psychedelics that takes this spiritual/mystical "philosophy" seriously are often pretty scientific. Not when it comes to the spiritual/mystical aspect but they rarely deny science, they are only claiming that some things can't be explained yet.

This "understanding" that you speak of is pretty interesting on it's own, because when I try to figure out what I have understood I start to ask myself constructive questions. I don't know if I will every get an answer, I probably wont. Although the process is very helpful, it develops my personality since I start to question myself and my values and makes me strive to be a better person.

I guess I'm not trying to argue against it being bullshit, but maybe it doesn't have to be unhealthy bullshit.:shrug:


--------------------
:death: Fumbling in existance :wizard:

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: hejAdig999]
    #25505198 -

socrates is thought to have said, "the only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing."

curiosity...the whole path of awakening and expanding should really make us more curious. the more we live, the more we realize we dont know anything, about life, about death, about ourselves, about others.

the tao has some beautiful poetry:

“Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power.”

“At birth one is soft and yielding,
At death he is hard and stiff.
Green plants at birth are soft and pliable,
At death they are brittle and dry.

Therefore, hard and rigid
are associated with death.

Soft and tender
affirm greater life.”

The greatest masters i've been around are like babies. they are super soft and gentle. their eyes are glowing with curiosity and joy and love. it's pure light beaming through.

the bible says something: "Truly I tell you," He said, "unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

it's so true. look at all the miserable people in the world. they are all serious. the masters are light and joyful and know how to laugh at themselves. they also have hearts of gold, they love people, they want people to be happy.

a popular quote, "you can either be right or you can be happy."

i used to want to be right all the time, to win arguments, and man was i good at it. i still don't like to lose any verbal sparring or contests of wit, intelligence, strategy, war, business. but now i realize, i'd rather not fight if i don't have to. if i stay humble and never hold onto any ideas of my own, nobody has anything to attack. im like water. flowing.


--------------------



truffles therapy -- safe psilocybin therapy retreats in amsterdam
tripsitters -- your guide to safe healing magic truffles journeys
conscious bachelorette -- spiritual sisterhood experiences in amsterdam
amsterdam conscious community
psychedelic therapy fb group

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Legalizeshrooms]
    #25505202 -

oooo i like those thoghts.

I love taoism too.

I just wanted to add, we interpret science through the 5 senses. There's a lot more going on here than what we can interpret through the 5 senses and unless you broaded your horizons that will never gain a full glimpse.

We are limited and dare I say evolving.

Our interpretation of science is as limited as we are.

Science is cool and all for certain stuff but it doesn't offer the whole picture


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Enkidu]
    #25505207 -

and science is explained through words, ideas, concepts.

ultimate reality is infinitely beyond any human conception, perception.

words, ideas, concepts, they tend to dissect, create boundaries around, separate. this is all beautiful to understand things on the relative level, because otherwise, it's pretty hard to function and relate with other humans without some knd of shared perception and description and explanations and pointings. words just point to reality. they are not reality itself.

love can only flow out when our perceptions loosen their grips on our minds. when we can realize perceptions are not stable and not our own. we don't cling.

when we see a banana when we are really hungry, it seems magical, delicious, appetizing, inviting. we are drawn to it. when we see the same banana after a big meal, it can seem disgusting, too sweet, too big, and we can feel repulsed by even the thought of it entering our mouths.

what changed?

buddha taught 3 c's all of conditioned phenomena: annicca, dukkha, anatta: impermanent, unsatisfactory, and lacking an individual existence. i have no authority to teach any of this, but i think it's worth investigating REALLY seriously.

Enkidu said:
oooo i like those thoghts.

I love taoism too.

I just wanted to add, we interpret science through the 5 senses. There's a lot more going on here than what we can interpret through the 5 senses and unless you broaded your horizons that will never gain a full glimpse.

We are limited and dare I say evolving.

Our interpretation of science is as limited as we are.

Science is cool and all for certain stuff but it doesn't offer the whole picture



--------------------



truffles therapy -- safe psilocybin therapy retreats in amsterdam
tripsitters -- your guide to safe healing magic truffles journeys
conscious bachelorette -- spiritual sisterhood experiences in amsterdam
amsterdam conscious community
psychedelic therapy fb group

Edited by Legalizeshrooms (10/02/18 04:05 AM)

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Legalizeshrooms] * 1
    #25505209 -

words only get you so far at some point you realize it's a trap

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Inflaton]
    #25505279 -

Inflaton said:
....
I must be the only materialist that likes psychedelics :rofl:

We are a complex molecular machine and us being here does not change the way things are. And the world has very strict, clear laws about which we know much more intimately than you realize. We don't know everything, but know the laws of everything that can have a material impact of us. With absolute precision and certainty. What we don't know is simply due to computational complexity. But we know exactly with astounding precision how each little piece moves.

There simply is no room for nothing else. There just isn't. That is what you people don't realize.

...


well I am a psychedelic materialist, but I think there is a lot of room for what is not yet understood to be full of understandable interactions that are currently unmapped, and some yet incomprehensible and not unmapped - all consistent with math, some relationships of which are not yet discovered.

To me the past is not the same as the future physically speaking, only on paper does that seem to make abstract sense.
In reality, or physicality, the present is constantly impinging and re-shaping the present into a future.
This can  be analyzed revealing trajectories and incidents in the past which can be checked and verified, but the future is not revealed or checkable within the present, even if some trajectories can be calculated well enough to land spacecraft on an asteroid.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Inflaton]
    #25505299 -

Inflaton said:
Bah, believe what you want people





That's what people tend to do :lol:


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.

It's just a shot away..

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Enkidu]
    #25505356 -

I love how the tread got flooded with pseudo-profound bullshit :lol:

The only idea you are communicating to me is: believe what makes you feel happy. You all even believe different things, moreover, you dont even know what you believe. Not good to me. I believe what I think is right, not what in think will make me feel good or make me happy. And guess what, I am quite happy :wink:

"Be loopy and be happy"

"Be rational and suffer"

Lol. So childish.

Every time I hear "science does not know everything" I know I am talking to a deluded person. And of course science does not know everything. But that is the one sentence that is ALWAYS used to justify crazy or ridiculous beliefs. And almost always said by a person with no scientific knowledge. I heard it 1000 times always in the same context. Always a crazy person that saw an UFO, talks with the dead, can see the future, talks to God, or whatever... :lol:

Your own minds have you all fooled :lol:


--------------------
Materialistic, individualistic, truth seeker, risk taker.

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Enkidu]
    #25505359 -

Enkidu said:
I didn't read all the comments but omg...

Your entire post is focusing on other people, their experiences and beliefs, and your judgement of it.

Why do people do this?

Walk your path and let others walk theirs in peace.

Why worry about if someone else is doing a,b, c, and d? There are so many more important things you could be worrying about...



Why do you care why I do it?

Are you judging me?

Why do tell people about Taoism or any other of the pseudo-philosophical 1000 year old self-help books you like?



--------------------
Materialistic, individualistic, truth seeker, risk taker.

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Inflaton]
    #25505372 -

All those Taoism, Buddhism and what not books you read... I'll give you a summary:

"How to be a sucker, accept it, and be fine with it"

:lol:

Do you ever wonder why no one with that kind of philosophy ever achieved anything in their lives?

The world does not belong to the timid.


--------------------
Materialistic, individualistic, truth seeker, risk taker.

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Inflaton] * 1
    #25505397 -

Inflaton said:
I love how the tread got flooded with pseudo-profound bullshit :lol:

The only idea you are communicating to me is: believe what makes you feel happy. You all even believe different things, moreover, you dont even know what you believe. Not good to me. I believe what I think is right, not what in think will make me feel good or make me happy. And guess what, I am quite happy :wink:

"Be loopy and be happy"

"Be rational and suffer"

Lol. So childish.

Every time I hear "science does not know everything" I know I am talking to a deluded person. And of course science does not know everything. But that is the one sentence that is ALWAYS used to justify crazy or ridiculous beliefs. And almost always said by a person with no scientific knowledge. I heard it 1000 times always in the same context. Always a crazy person that saw an UFO, talks with the dead, can see the future, talks to God, or whatever... :lol:

Your own minds have you all fooled :lol:


Man, you really need to evaluate yourself and the way you treat other people. I've been reading here for almost a year and joined a few months ago. I haven't seen anyone else as arrogant and full headed as yourself. I actually see your name and look forward to reading what you post in empty hopes that you've somehow changed. Alas, that is never the case. It seems you will most likely be the "I really wish this guy would permanently sign out" for good. Your words and actions are the exact opposite of what someone who uses psychadelics should be. One day I think you might grow up and get over yourself otherwise you will always be this sad, angry, judgemental and yet somehow self righteous shell of a human, who is losing the grip on his own soul. You act like you truly know everything when in reality your words are perceived as that of a fool. It's not even like your trying to help people or change them for the better. Its always "you people are stupid and I am the voice of reason so listen up". It's not like you even come off as intelligent. Its judgemental chatter and you just need to stop. I hadn't even seen someone else comment on you until after writing this and Enkidu was surely softer spoken in his words. In short bro, you're just a dick.


--------------------
Sorry for wasting your time, or not. 
God bless -LoverOfTheLight

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: LoveroftheLight] * 1
    #25505402 -

Inflaton, your ability to learn is disrupted by your inability to see past what you choose to believe


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Enkidu]
    #25505422 -

Honestly, you could grow a lot more if you stopped attacking everything someone says that disrupts your preconceived notions while attaching your other preconceived notions to their words, and tried to actually understand it as much as you do scientific findings

Seriously man. But it's your life bro.

It's like someone says something you don't want to hear so you attach your interpretation to it and then attack it.

Just an observation

You'll probably turn this into a joke about how absurd and loony it is and laugh though


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: LoveroftheLight]
    #25505423 -

Quote:
LoveroftheLight said:One day I think you might grow up and get over yourself otherwise you will always be this sad, angry, judgemental and yet somehow self righteous shell of a human, who is losing the grip on his own soul. You act like you truly know everything when in reality your words are perceived as that of a fool. It's not even like your trying to help people or change them for the better. Its always "you people are stupid and I am the voice of reason so listen up". It's not like you even come off as intelligent. Its judgemental chatter and you just need to stop. I hadn't even seen someone else comment on you until after writing this and Enkidu was surely softer spoken in his words. In short bro, you're just a dick.


You are wrong with the "sad, angry, judgamental", I am none of those things. I just dont experience those emotions. You got me wrong. I am normally in pretty good mood and having a laugh here. IfnI didnt have fun I would not be posting.

But I am a dick in these forums, that is true. And I do it on purpose. And btw my online forum personality is not my real personality. Well, it is real I guess, but I have many personalities. If you ask people that know me in different environments they would describe me in very different ways, I'm sure of that.

I like to make people think and react. And for that you need to make them confront their inconsistencies. I also like to make fun of people. It is fun.

If someone gets upset, I really dont care. It is on them.

I dont get upset by your messagge at all.


--------------------
Materialistic, individualistic, truth seeker, risk taker.

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Inflaton] * 1
    #25505427 -

Bro those are all signs that you need some serious self work.

Sometimes I wonder if you've ever even eaten any psychedelics and are just a troll


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Inflaton] * 1
    #25505428 -

This has been an entertaining thread, with a lot of very good points raised.



Eclipse3130 said:
I wonder how someone takes psychedelics and ends up this way? It's more interesting to me than anything :lol:



Yep! I too wonder this.


Inflaton said:
Every time I hear "science does not know everything" I know I am talking to a deluded person.


I think that believing in science as the absolute truth is just as deluded in believing in Santa Claus or zombies...
It seems obvious to me, and seemingly a lot of others, that science doesn't know everything.
Science is a product of humans, and humans know nothing, so how can science know everything?
As someone very aptly stated, we can only interpret science with our 5 senses so we're very limited, I doubt 0.01% of your "science fact" is actually fact, if indeed there is a clear definition of what "fact" actually means.


Imagine a blind and deaf person claiming that they know everything there is to know, it would be laughable. They don't even know what stuff sounds or looks like.
As far as I'm concerned, they are only a tiny bit more impaired than we are.

I don't claim to be the smartest, most rational person on Earth, but I think I have a reasonable understanding of science, I'm pretty good at chemistry and electronics and stuff, but that doesn't mean that I trust it, it just works for what I need it to do so I use it.

Consider, for example, the traditional image of a molecule as a cluster of spherical protons and spherical neutrons, with smaller spherical electrons orbiting around like satellites.
It's obvious that molecules don't "look" anything like this. It's just a model that helps us understand it easier.
Imagine that everything considered to be science fact is just an abstraction presented in a way that allows us to understand it, and it has nothing to do with reality.

I haven't deeply studied quantum mechanics or any of that cutting-edge science, frankly it doesn't interest me because I believe it to be an even greater degree of nonsense than the sciences that have existed for longer.

At least we know that acids neutralise bases, so chemistry is actually useful for something.
If some LHC experiment shows that time is actually a liquid, or discovers another particle, I don't believe that it has anything more to do with reality than ghosts or hallucinations, and it has no obvious practical application, so I confess I'm ignorant when it comes to the realm of quantum entanglement and inflatons.


--------------------
"Well I've been where you're hanging, I think I can see how you're pinned" - Leonard Cohen

"We are led to Believe a Lie
When we see not Thro the Eye
Which was Born in a Night to perish in a Night
When the Soul Slept in Beams of Light" - William Blake

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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