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Re: Small fruit problems.... [Re: Threads from God89]
    #24924068 -

I had something similar happen on the cakes I'm growing. All the fruits are teeny tiny. They got a little blue from getting dried out and then i dunked and over misted it seems. I'm hoping the second flush comes out a little better. I also raised the temp because I was in the 60s in my grow room before and now I have a heater running 24/7.



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Gourmet Mushrooms/Urban Farmer

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Re: Small fruit problems.... [Re: Mateja]
    #24924069 -

Mateah said:
This is a clone, first flush was from field capacity substrate second flush was from a soaked substrate after 12h dunk

First flush medium size fruits                        Second flush miniature fruits
                           

This gives support to mushboys theory


Not conclusively.  Clones still have a bit of genetic variances.


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How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.

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Re: Small fruit problems.... [Re: Mateja]
    #24924083 -

Hmmm..... And I also had a tub that performed just like that too that I remember Mateah.  I remember because the second flush fruits were smaller than the first flush ones just like that and I dunked as well after first flush, I remember thinking "that s weird" cuz second flush fruits are suppose to be bigger, right? .... So chances are it is the excess water causing these consistently smaller fruits then huh??  Especially with all of us noticing this happening in overly wet conditions, regardless of Ms or clone...? 

            I think that's pretty friggin' awesome!!! :thumbup:....

                We mighta just figured something out!!!  Good job guys!! Haha....:thumbup:


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Admirer of Bushido....... Seeker of Truth, and Knowledge.

    I Will Keep the Fire going,  and the Good Wolf fed.......

                    ( We Are All Threads from God.)

                 
                             

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Re: Small fruit problems.... [Re: TBeau]
    #24924103 -

TBeau said:
I had something similar happen on the cakes I'm growing. All the fruits are teeny tiny. They got a little blue from getting dried out and then i dunked and over misted it seems. I'm hoping the second flush comes out a little better. I also raised the temp because I was in the 60s in my grow room before and now I have a heater running 24/7.




Yeah... If I had it my way my temps would be warmer, but I just can't really justify running an electric heater for a couple tubs of mushrooms ya know??  That electric bill man!!! Lol.  Nope, cubes will have to cope with the chill just like us.... I have my thermostat set at 68... Problem is, it is only 63 where my setups are....:thumbdown:

        I'm trying to walk the line of energy efficiency!!! :grin:


--------------------
Admirer of Bushido....... Seeker of Truth, and Knowledge.

    I Will Keep the Fire going,  and the Good Wolf fed.......

                    ( We Are All Threads from God.)

                 
                             

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Re: Small fruit problems.... [Re: Threads from God89]
    #24924106 -

I guess really the only way to prove this out would be to take a strain isolate and subject it to both sub conditions...if they perform the same : Genetics :shrug:


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Helpful Threads

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Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

"Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead

Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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Re: Small fruit problems.... [Re: Tormato]
    #24924144 -

Right..... Proof obtained could be the goal, but before I started this thread I was only thinking of my fruiting temps being the problem, not an overly saturated sub.  So that's a new lead... And I also wasn't thinking it was due to genetics, my reasoning for that is the fact that the tub pictured is a MS syringe - wbs inoculated tub, therefore it is FULL of TONS of genetic variance, that is true.

      One observation about that I notice though, is I can see subtle, probably genetic differences among the individual mushroom fruits... They all look a little different in their own way because of MS, BUT all the fruits seem to be STICKING to a MAIN BASELINE OF SHORT, DENSE GROWTH.  So with all the genetic variance contained by nature of MS.... Wouldn't that in itself suggest that the factor for baseline short fruit growth is most likely environmental? Not genetic??? 

            Personally I think this evidence suggests that the variable responsible could be environmental, and not genetic in this case....:thumbup:.

                    :cheers:


--------------------
Admirer of Bushido....... Seeker of Truth, and Knowledge.

    I Will Keep the Fire going,  and the Good Wolf fed.......

                    ( We Are All Threads from God.)

                 
                             

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Re: Small fruit problems.... [Re: Threads from God89]
    #24924163 -

Good thread...definitely something I might test with a controlled sample...might try it on one of my strain isolates in the future.


--------------------
Helpful Threads

The Shroomery Store

Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me!

"Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead

Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!

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Re: Small fruit problems.... [Re: Tormato]
    #24924183 -

:bow2:.......

                :breakthrough:....... Happy to have a small part!!!

                      Thank ya's!!!! :smile::mushroom2:


--------------------
Admirer of Bushido....... Seeker of Truth, and Knowledge.

    I Will Keep the Fire going,  and the Good Wolf fed.......

                    ( We Are All Threads from God.)

                 
                             

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Re: Small fruit problems.... [Re: Threads from God89]
    #24924977 -

IME a soggy substrate can stunt fruits, caps will open when the fruits are hardly much taller than pins.

Sometimes you just get small fruits though! Check out this tub, its "Mexi-cube". I've grown this variety a lot. It can grow as big as any Cube variety , but it often has a tendency to put up little fruits

This is an old photo but as far as I can remember it was just a regular , healthy tub. It just grew small fruits :shrug:



I *think* this is the same tub in both photos


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Amateur Mycologists United
AMU Q&A

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Re: Small fruit problems.... [Re: mushpunx]
    #24925681 -

last week i made these two big shoeboxes. one with 2 quarts spawn, the other with 3. the coco however was hydrated with +4.25quarts water.

no misting. just set and forget/partial open air. like ive been doing... but with more water...


4.25 quarts is way too much water. it will cause these kinds of shrooms, just like threadz and similar to mateah and lots of others experiencing the same problem.
multiple people experiencing the same shit over and over isnt genetic variance. its environmental which you can CONTROL.

i wonder how the next cycle of coco does with only 3.5 quarts of water....:omgawesome:
im going to guess, ill have side pins, less dense flush, but better formed and fully grown fruits. ..similar if not better. yields.

takin all bets!!:money:

the discussion about more uniform fruits/results with the josex biopsy method and the narrowed genetics is interesting...:chinaman:


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:hypnotoad:
Making Liquid Culture :  Go insane with LC
Mushboy likes these teks : Making shroom tea
Dank Education

Edited by mushboy (01/19/18 01:14 PM)

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Re: Small fruit problems.... [Re: mushboy]
    #24925697 -

I´ve already taken notes so I remember to test this theory out when I have more spawn than I need (maybe I already have) and I´ll purposefully make bulk subs over field capacity, maybe three tubs will be enough. One with field capacity, one moderately over field capacity and one much over field capacity. Probably I´ll need a lot more tubs for this test to extract very useful knowledge but it´s a start and 3 tubs may provide some sort of general idea, we´ll see.


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Cakes inside Water Tub with optimal Surface Conditions

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Re: Small fruit problems.... [Re: mushboy]
    #24925745 -

Don't you check for field capacity? If its too wet add more dry verm, too dry more water etc?


--------------------

Amateur Mycologists United
AMU Q&A

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Re: Small fruit problems.... [Re: mushpunx]
    #24925750 -

mushpunx said:
Don't you check for field capacity? If its too wet add more dry verm, too dry more water etc?


how do you teach something relative to how you squeeze dirt??? how many noobs do a real test???
we know and we do.. but they dont and they guess. or they dont test at all. and then mist like its a OCD tick.

otherwise the same issues wouldnt happen over, and over and over and over.
shroomery can be like a broken record so change to angle of teaching.

do it with people :wink:


--------------------
:hypnotoad:
Making Liquid Culture :  Go insane with LC
Mushboy likes these teks : Making shroom tea
Dank Education

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Re: Small fruit problems.... [Re: mushboy]
    #24926613 -

Another thing I have noticed while growing these two separate varieties, all of my tubs have a lot of mutated fruits, with both varieties (Cambodian and Mazatapec), along with them also being extremely slow growing and small when mature....

          Both varieties look very similar and are following pretty much the same growing patterns:

      Here was my Ms tub of "Mazatapec":



      And here is my Ms tub of Cambodian, although this tub contained a higher ratio of Coco coir than the Maz tub. (Hpoo/coir/gypsum):



      And check these mutants out!: (Shoeboxes; Mazatapec, MS-same spawn as first pic)







    And my two personal favorite freaks: :wink:.....

          I saw this same mutation from this variety in my first tub pictured... Two shrooms sharing one cap, one on top of the other.



        You know what this one looks look :lol:

...... So idk, weird growth patterns for sure, but unless my spore vendor just gave me the same variety in two differently labeled syringes, then these two are pretty closely following similar growth patterns, which seems to suggest something environmental.

          Idk, I am sure they don't dig these cold fruiting temps tho!!!  :thumbdown:....... O well, Spring is on its way!!! :rockon:


--------------------
Admirer of Bushido....... Seeker of Truth, and Knowledge.

    I Will Keep the Fire going,  and the Good Wolf fed.......

                    ( We Are All Threads from God.)

                 
                             

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Re: Small fruit problems.... [Re: mushboy]
    #24927190 -

mushboy said:
mushpunx said:
Don't you check for field capacity? If its too wet add more dry verm, too dry more water etc?


how do you teach something relative to how you squeeze dirt??? how many noobs do a real test???
we know and we do.. but they dont and they guess. or they dont test at all. and then mist like its a OCD tick.

otherwise the same issues wouldnt happen over, and over and over and over.
shroomery can be like a broken record so change to angle of teaching.

do it with people :wink:


That's exsactly what my problem has been how do I know what field capacity is I know they say a tight squeeze has a little stream for a second then drip but my grip strength is extremely strong so my tight squeeze may be way overboard and I think I'm at field capacity when I'm really too dry so I then I don't squeeze my tightest and squeeze what I think is a normal average persons tight squeeze and now what if I do this and I make it too wet. I wish there was a more standardized way of knowing field capacity like a soil moisture meter reading or something besides a squeeze test.

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Re: Small fruit problems.... [Re: mushboy]
    #24927277 -

Threadz, what is the depth of the substrate? I think mushboys right, cuz i get the same thing when its over saturated. Thin substrate could add to the problem if its not thick enough AND over saturated. But also, ive noticed when i have alot of pins, fruits tend to be smaller than when the pinset is sparse

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Re: Small fruit problems.... [Re: nube424]
    #24927483 -

Substrate depth has little to nothing to do with size of fruits. 
Multi spore 6 inch fruits on 1&1/2 inch substrate


--------------------
     
How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.

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Re: Small fruit problems.... [Re: hamloaf]
    #24927495 -

Depth of substrate can help but not in the ways you think.

A larger 'mass'is better a making its own micro climate.  Like a packed sgfc.

So deep subs make more volume,  anarobic heat does its thing,  shrooms grow big n healthy.  But its cause the sub has made a good environment on its own. Without your noob ass:tongue: Thinner/smaller subs are relative to the chambers size too.

Thats why ppl say 3-4 inches. Its a good depth cause a big mono is easier to set n forget.  But its not always practical or best to use that deep of a sub.


--------------------
:hypnotoad:
Making Liquid Culture :  Go insane with LC
Mushboy likes these teks : Making shroom tea
Dank Education

Edited by mushboy (01/20/18 08:32 AM)

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Re: Small fruit problems.... [Re: mushboy]
    #24927501 -

If the moisture content of said substrate is guarded well during spawn run, then subtsrates are just as effective if not more effective for the reasons stated above for two reasons.  The thinner the susbtrate; the less of a chance it has to become anereobic in the center.  Thinner substrate also colonize a day or two a head of thicker ones.


--------------------
     
How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.

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Re: Small fruit problems.... [Re: hamloaf]
    #24927506 -

Did i use anarobic wrong?  Is it a symptom or just the act of producing heat?


--------------------
:hypnotoad:
Making Liquid Culture :  Go insane with LC
Mushboy likes these teks : Making shroom tea
Dank Education

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