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OfflineMagmaManiac
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Agaricus Florida ID
    #2332155 - 02/13/04 09:41 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

What Agaricus do you all think this is? I have one pretty much matched up in my Common Florida Mushrooms book. I want to see if you answer similarly and I also want to get you all's opinion, and make sure.

The fairly good one, white corrected:



The big one, a rushed picture, agh, white corrected and slightly gamma corrected:


A fairly mature, small specimen, white corrected and strongly gamma corrected, I'm sorry for the poor quality of the photos:


Pileus: whitish on the edges and when younger, to pinkish on the edges, turning darker with age and with uplifting, dark in the center with very delicate, small scales that rub off. Margins tend to supercede the gills around so that from the bottom a white cap layer can be seen circularly. Small rounded "hills on the surface but overall broadly convex to slightly uplifted in age. 9-11 cm, large specimen 12.5 cm diameter.

LLamallae : typlical Agaricus gills

Stipe: light rosy color near apex from spores, annulus well pronounced turning black dark in age from spores and "evanescing" in age. Bulbous in lower half. Often bulbous and then at the very end in ground the same width as top half. THICK: 2.2-3.5 cm in diamater and not very long< about 5-7.5 cm long. Flesh does not bruise noticably at the stem/cap juncture, slightly brownish/gray, then fades. Smell or that region is like fresh green, or some kind of green grass that has been just harvested, or the pungent smell of harvest grass roots. A bitter smell, greenish/earthy, but significant. Otherwise, great mushroom smell. Stipe lightly brownish towards the bottom in some older specimens.

The cap to stipe ratio makes it strongly campestroid. It is sturdy even when maggot-ridden.


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OfflineMagmaManiac
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Re: Agaricus Florida ID [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #2333898 - 02/14/04 12:14 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Here are some more pictures I took today:

A small specimen growing right next to the sidewalk, slight 106% higher gamma:


The same mushroom after I accidently hit it with my foot, almost stepping on it completely, untouched just resized:


And a button growing next to an old rotting specimen:


These mushroom grow very fast and are robust. The old specimen grew from a button to being black sludge rotten in about 3 or less days. The one in the first two pictures I did not even notice last night, it must have been very small.

One more thing:crushing the base did not reveal a specific odor. I thought for a few minutes I could smell a sweet smell over the eathen smell of the ground, kind of like almond pie with a little glazed sugar. But the odor was faint and then faded. When I crushed a portion a little higher than the extreme base, the odor became like that of the apex of the stipe, like fresh greens, a pungent gingery-green but "sobering" fresh odor.In other words, not intoxicatingly pungent like some intense smells, but rather fresh.

GreatOne what do you think, anyone else? I'm not eating this because I'm not completely sure. But I am 99% sure that its quite a medicinal mushroom. I'd like to hear from someone.


Edited by MagmaManiac (02/14/04 12:35 PM)


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OfflineMagmaManiac
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Re: Agaricus Florida ID [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #2335150 - 02/14/04 07:36 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

woo I'm not sure about this one as I thought I was.

Some new descriptions: There appears to be in orange-brown discoloration after slight drying AND breaking of the stipe. There are obvious veil "teeth" around the margin in today's specimen found. If I had to classify the odor of the mushrooms overall, it would be sweet and delicate. The greens-fresh smell is only prevalent in the flesh, maybe something like the imaginings of the taste of young green nuts before they are ready to be eaten.

I was looking as section Bitorques and the Agaricus that is the archetype of that Section but my specimen does not correspond with the significantly firm flesh and the veil is more skirt-like than those species. I wasn't sure what Arora means by "refuscent" under the Sanguinolenti section but I thought it probably means red-staining from the name of the section. I'm thinking section Hortenses, or maybe Bitorques but I need a better description or visual of the "sheatlike" annulus.

I would also like to know if someone can describe to me what a "phenolic" odor is. I just know its harsh and "unpleasant." But I don't find many odors unpleasant that other find unpleasant, other than rotting, decomposing fungus or animals or fecal smells. And also what is the smell of anise? I knew it before more or less but now I don't remember.

Thank you in advance.


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Agaricus Florida ID [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #2335634 - 02/14/04 10:50 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Given the odor you're describing and the orangish discoloration, I would guess it belongs in Arvenses. Although that includes some of the best Agaricus species, several of them cause stomach upsets in some people.

If you cut it in half vertically and scrape the inside it should bruise and discolor fairly rapidly.

"Rufescent" does indeed mean staining reddish. That, of course, includes various pinkish and purplish colors as well.

A sheathing annulus in Agaricus will usually somewhat resemble a volva, as in many species of Amanita.

Phenolic means smelling like Phenol, but that's not very useful if you don't have any phenol to smell. It is also often described as smelling metallic, ink-like, or like library paste.

Anise smells pretty much like black licorice. They both derive their scent from Anethole.

Happy mushrooming!


--------------------
Happy mushrooming!


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Re: Agaricus Florida ID [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #2335766 - 02/14/04 11:53 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Magma, I have no idea what that mushroom is..

It makes me want to go shroom hunting though!  :lol:


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OfflineMagmaManiac
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Re: Agaricus Florida ID [Re: ToxicMan]
    #2335866 - 02/15/04 01:33 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

The orange-brown discoloration only occured in one specimen on the bottom part of the stem near the surface of the stem after it dried for a while.

In one or two specimens, after breaking open the cap in half, there seems to be a discoloration above the gills that is purplish-pink like the color the gills after they are more than pink but not quite purple. It may a discoloration caused by spores however, after the mushroom is broken. That looks to be the most probable cause.

The other discolorations of the flesh are faint and only occur when it is scratched significantly. Breaking the cap does not cause discoloration. The flesh may just bruise a dull tan-brown color and then go back to pretty much white after a half an hour or so. After scraping, fragment of the flesh that have been nearly de-attached or are disatached from the body of the mushroom are the only that bruise.

The bottom of the stipe is probably turning a goldenrod color, as many Agaricus species tend to do upon being dried.

Also, without scraping the mild sweet, pleasant mushroom odor does not change. The strong "greens" smell I described earlier can only be smelled if it is scraped. Now after the specimen has been out of the ground for over 12 hours, although still very moist, the odor has faded even after scratching. It still lingers but does necessarily remind me of a metallic odor, more like something earthen yet used as herbal medicine and not a food, because its not GOOD. Some grass, hard to describe. Maybe I just need to smell some phenol. Yet the odor resembles something natural rather than paste or metal.

The veils of Section Arvenses are stated to "typically [have] two distinct layers." I have not noticed two distinct layers. I'll have to check the button tomorrow morning, provided that it has not grown to a full-size mushroom. What led me towards Hortenses was the rather squat stature and the lack of signifiicant particulary yellowish discoloration. I guess KOH would do the trick in distinguishing the two sections. Could I get some at a pool supply store?

-one more addition: I just noticed on this specimen that it did bruise fairly rapidly but the bruising was not so significant on other specimens and it is beige-gray at best. - Now I see that in the earlier stages of bruising it is more yellow than before, a beige-yellowish color, it looks like Arvenses may be it, but other specimens did not show noticable signs of yellow bruising at all. We'll see if I have time to continue this investigation.

Thank you all, happy hunting GGreat.



The bottom of the stipe is probably turning a goldenrod color, as many Agaricus species tend to do upon being dried.


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Re: Agaricus Florida ID [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #2336645 - 02/15/04 09:21 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Why ya so interested in that mushroom?


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OfflineMagmaManiac
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Re: Agaricus Florida ID [Re: GGreatOne234]
    #2342741 - 02/16/04 08:19 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Because I would like to find out if its a yummy Agaricus from the wild, I've never eaten wild Agaricus before, and its fun anyways. Once I start investigating or typing on here, I just keep going. Its frustrating sometimes though, because some of these Florida mushrooms are fairly uncommon in other areas of the country, and are hard to id to species.

I probably would have kept on trying to id it yesterday, but I got an awful stomach flu virus and there was no way I could do it. This evening whilst walking my dog I saw the button mushroom fully expanded and very dark/mature. So I'm still open to comments, but I think my independant search is ending because the week has started and I will be busy again. GGreatOne how about your experiences Agaricussing in Manatee county? What have you found and id-ed?


Edited by MagmaManiac (02/16/04 08:25 PM)


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OfflineMagmaManiac
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Re: Agaricus Florida ID [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #2361392 - 02/20/04 11:58 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

does anyone have something to say about this? If not let it fly away I guess.


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Agaricus Florida ID [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #2363275 - 02/21/04 12:26 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

>>I guess KOH would do the trick in distinguishing the two sections. Could I get some at a pool supply store?<<

I don't know about that, but I am sure you could find some at a university. Just say pleeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaassssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeee. No one is going to be flipping a lid if you need two drops of KOH.


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Re: Agaricus Florida ID [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #2363540 - 02/21/04 01:51 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

how about your experiences Agaricussing in Manatee county? What have you found and id-ed?





I wouldn't eat any of the agaricus mushrooms i've found. At least several different species (mostly all in pastures), honestly don't think any of my identifications were correct, so, i don't eat those. :smile:

I know for a fact i wouldn't eat what you found in your pictures. Actually i think i found one of those (or something very similar) a couple weeks ago in a pasture.

Quote:

some of these Florida mushrooms are fairly uncommon in other areas of the country, and are hard to id to species.




You're absolutely right, most of the mushrooms i find here never seem to match up to any identification books. I'd be a whole lot more confident to make more positive id's if i had a high powered microscope.. in most cases it is probably the only way to identify these mushrooms with complete certainty.


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