pineninja said:

How can one ever know a objective reality when one only ever views it subjectively.

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lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl said:

It is simply a matter of geometry.

The photoreceptor cells in your retina are set up in a plane. Because the retina it is set up as a plane, the images you see are two dimensional. The images we see contain no information as to where things are in 3-d space. Instead we assume where things aught to be based on depth perception, image recognition and experience.

This is different than the nerve cells that allow you to feel things, since they are distributed all over your body in three dimensions (though they are most concentrated in the skin).

If you were to "see" in three dimensions you would see entire objects inside and out simultaneously.

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Very old, but I like this.  We don't see in 3D, we see in 2D.  2D with depth perception is not 3D.  Seeing in 3D would mean seeing somebody's front side, back side and innards all at once laid out in front of you. 

sudly said:

Gravity is a fundamental force of nature that exists irrespective of the human experience.

Our perceptions are subjective, what we are observing is not.

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DieCommie said:

pineninja said:

How can one ever know a objective reality when one only ever views it subjectively.

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We can't.  Reality is eternally, and utterly veiled from us.  Knowing reality without the coloring of perception would require perceiving it without perception - a logical contradiction.  What we can do is model our observations.  These models are as close to knowing reality as we will ever get.  (The fact that reality is ultimately unknowable is a good reason to doubt it's validity and worth.  Its really a worthless concept.)

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Just realized you did it for me.

pineninja said:

sudly said:

Gravity is a fundamental force of nature that exists irrespective of the human experience.

Our perceptions are subjective, what we are observing is not.

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This makes no sense and is contradictory. I have read you chucking these claims around before and am personally dont have the fortitude to argue over colours. I will have to agree to disagree.

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So you don't understand it yet you understand that it's contradictory.. If you know what's wrong with the statement it'd be nice if you could say it.

Quote:

One subjective reality perceived individually within a person, one objective reality separate from the individual which has observable deterministic properties.

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pineninja said:

DieCommie said:

pineninja said:

How can one ever know a objective reality when one only ever views it subjectively.

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We can't.  Reality is eternally, and utterly veiled from us.  Knowing reality without the coloring of perception would require perceiving it without perception - a logical contradiction.  What we can do is model our observations.  These models are as close to knowing reality as we will ever get.  (The fact that reality is ultimately unknowable is a good reason to doubt it's validity and worth.  Its really a worthless concept.)

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Just realized you did it for me.

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pineninja said:

It makes no sense because it is contradictory to a point of ridiculousness that you aint gonna get .As i said i have seen people argue this point with you before quite eloquently and you steadfastly refuse to understand non contradictory statements.

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Quote:

Perception: the way in which something is regarded, understood, or interpreted.

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Quote:

you have no evidence of an objective external world

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Quote:

We have 2 experiences of 1 dimension. 

We live in a non-dual reality that is dichotomous.

Reality in an objective sense can be called non-dual.

However, with the existence of a subjective sense, reality can be in duality.

One subjective reality perceived individually within a person, one objective reality separate from the individual which has observable deterministic properties

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