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Birth of a Skeptic
    #2296728 -

Decades ago while staying at Ananda, a spiritual retreat in the Sierra Nevadas, a female friend of mine had just received Kriya Initiation from Swami Kriyananda (no relation). I asked her what it was like. She explained the ceremony and the final part was a transmission of shaktipat as Kriyananda pressed on her eyes with his fingers. She was amazed to see all sorts of colors and got a tingle down her spine.

I asked her, "Was it anything like this?" I then pressed gently, but firmly on her eyes. She gasped "You can transmit kundalini energy, too?"

"Um, no," I replied. I merely activated the phosphenes in your eyes. It will work on anyone. It took a moment for what I told her to set in. Her eyes turned dark, "I hate you!" she screamed then ran off crying.

I was totally puzzled. I thought disillusionment was a good thing - the freeing from illusion so that one may better see what is real.

Today, I am still puzzled by the same reaction when some people find out that their pet mystery is not so mysterious.

Did not Jesus (puh-lease, before you go off, I am not comparing myself to a sage) say something about removing the scales from one's eyes?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Swami]
    #2296814 -

"Try not to piss in other people's koolaid, it screws with the color and flavor."
- Someone, Somewhere


--------------------
In a state of anarchy every individual is their own kingdom.

Thou art God (but so am i :wink:)

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: seeker]
    #2297105 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Swami]
    #2297124 -

You sound just like the guy that wrote the book Powers of Mind. The whole pressing on their eye thing... *looks skeptically at you* :lol:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Swami]
    #2297128 -

poor girl..
she was looking for something to hold on to..

You want to know why people love to stay disillusioned? The chains that hold us provide comfort- they are made of a seemingly indestructible material and it makes us feel safe to have them covering us.

It was good of you to show her.. you unlocked the chains for her- but did she take them off? What happened to her and her experience?

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Swami]
    #2297195 -

Let sleeping dogs lie. Some people are happier living in an illusion. Just leave them to be. If they want the truth, they'll come looking for it.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: ]
    #2297205 -

For to be a seeker is to be the opposite of a skeptic

yeah well I'm all for making grand statements and all but can you explain this one?

I would think a true seeker would have to be a skeptic, so they can distinguish the BS from the truth but hey, I guess that's just me.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: silversoul7]
    #2297207 -

if the door is locked, they can't open it, and you can't unlock every door yourself

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: silversoul7]
    #2297242 -

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: ]
    #2297247 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: ]
    #2297322 -

oh I'm not expecting any replies from you

but for anyone else interested: the opposite of a skeptic is someone who is
credulous: ready to believe especially on slight or uncertain evidence
or
gullible: easily duped or cheated

is this how some people characterize seekers?
it certainly sounds that way.
as a seeker myself, I find this highly offensive.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Swami]
    #2297470 -

Swami, how old was this female friend?


--------------------
In a state of anarchy every individual is their own kingdom.

Thou art God (but so am i :wink:)

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Swami]
    #2297526 -

Wow Swami I thought people would be more with you on this one....

I think you taught her an extremely valuable lesson, and she probably won't get "spiritually scammed" ever again.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Strumpling]
    #2297649 -

Seems some here completely miss the point. I was a seeker the same as the young woman (age 23) as I was there to learn and not trying to pop her bubble. I was later hoping to go through the same ceremony. I fully expected her to say, "No, it was nothing at all like that," and was as surprised as she was. I did not "make her" cry, it was her own disappointment. As to sincerity, I sold everything I owned and quit a great job to go there for the purpose of discovery.

Footnote: Swami Kriyananda was eventually expelled from the community he founded for using his authoritarian position to sexually abuse women. His selfishness tarnished the reputation of this organization and cost them millions. Guess those women that exposed his dalliances were also arrogant bashers that should have kept quiet so as not disturb other's fallacious views.  :rolleyes:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Swami]
    #2297811 -

People seem to want ends not means, and I think what is resented is being forced to admit that there are just means and only one end. Does this hold water?


--------------------
In a state of anarchy every individual is their own kingdom.

Thou art God (but so am i :wink:)

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: seeker]
    #2297953 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: ]
    #2298157 -

skeptic is synonymous with misogynist?
yeah ok. :rolleyes:

btw, to SEEK is not the same as to BELIEVE

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: ]
    #2298184 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2298199 -

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/thesaurus?book=Thesaurus&va=skeptic&x=10&y=17

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: ]
    #2298390 -

there are plenty of dictionaries with which to post your own argument

Dictionaries argue with eachother all the time


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Strumpling]
    #2298418 -

absolutely correct. but skeptic = misogynist?
I mean. COME ON!

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2298424 -

I must say I disagree with that dictionary's claim as well


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Strumpling]
    #2298455 -

I think it's an outdated dictionary.
language changes all the time.
that's why new editions are released on a regular basis
you gotta stay up to date.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Swami]
    #2299322 -

M_M: Indeed, seeker.
For to be a seeker is to be the opposite of a skeptic.

What a load of flat out bullshit!
I hope, for the sake of your own frontal lobe, that you made this statement while under the influence. Otherwise? well, it?s just sad.

Morrowind: You want to know why people love to stay disillusioned? The chains that hold us provide comfort- they are made of a seemingly indestructible material and it makes us feel safe to have them covering us.

*Wonders if Morrowind knows exactly how much I appreciate experiencing another mind communicating this perception of a phenomenon to me*

silversoul7: Let sleeping dogs lie. Some people are happier living in an illusion. Just leave them to be. If they want the truth, they'll come looking for it.

Nope. I just can?t accept this. Sorry.
I?m not about forcing anything on ?sleeping dogs?? I just don?t see the point of letting them waste their lives warming my floor.

M_M: The meaning is fairly clear. If you offer the truth to a person you will more than likely be mocked at, scoffed at, and abused. At the same time you will offend, hurt, and cause some damage to others who you are trying to help.

Weren?t you just talking about tact? and then you seem to then say that no matter HOW you tell it, the truth will hurt?

It?s not like I?m kicking each sleeping dog in the teeth to wake it up. Sure, I might use a bullhorn on a sleeping pack, but that?s not exactly damaging (I?m careful to keep the decibels at eardrum-friendly levels).

M_M: Mr_Mushrooms wonders how long he has to ignore someone before they finally understand he will not reply to them.

Yeah yeah? and I?m wondering how long you?re going to let your ego and emotions keep this charade up?


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Sclorch]
    #2299408 -

"'M_M: Indeed, seeker.
For to be a seeker is to be the opposite of a skeptic.'

What a load of flat out bullshit!"

While I wouldn't use such strong words, I agree... Many skeptics ARE indeed seekers, dude.. why would you think skeptics DON'T "seek truth?"


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Strumpling]
    #2299590 -

It seems to me that skeptics (could be anyone; from scientist to gravedigger) are doing a better job discerning truth from illusion then others (could take them a long while though :smile:)

Perchaps being skeptic about the definitions in dictionaries is a proper attitude contrary to blindly consume connotations at a whim M_Mushrooms?


--------------------
Valar Morghulis

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Sclorch]
    #2299723 -

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: ]
    #2299746 -

>No definition of a skeptic, or synonym thereof, indicates they are willing to
>believe anything. If that is the case they are entirely close-minded, unteachable,
>and unwilling to learn.

I am a skeptic.
I believe many things.
I just don?t believe them simply BECAUSE they are in a 2000 years old book, there have to be also other good arguments for me to believe them.


--------------------
Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Strumpling]
    #2299747 -

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Anno]
    #2299751 -

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Sclorch]
    #2299802 -

As strumpling hinted...you should not be using such strong words here. Please re-read the forum rules, thanks.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: trendal]
    #2299826 -

yeah cuz only skepdick assholes use strong words huh?

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: ]
    #2299895 -

If I disagree with everything anyone says I am not seeking anything, am I?

Questioning everything could be seen as seeking. But how is disagreeing seeking?

pretty sneaky there...

skeptic = misogynist = disagreeing with everything(?!)...

maybe all these definitions only exist in your head?


what's wrong with the dictionary definitions?:

skeptic: a doubting or incredulous person
or
skepticism: Main Entry: skep?ti?cism
Pronunciation: 'skep-t&-"si-z&m
Function: noun
1 : an attitude of doubt or a disposition to incredulity either in general or toward a particular object
2 a : the doctrine that true knowledge or knowledge in a particular area is uncertain b : the method of suspended judgment, systematic doubt, or criticism characteristic of skeptics
3 : doubt concerning basic religious principles (as immortality, providence, and revelation)
synonym see UNCERTAINTY

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2299897 -

infidelGOD said:
yeah cuz only skepdick assholes use strong words huh?


:grin:

All I know is that I don't like generalities much. hehe.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2299911 -

yeah and I don't like double standards either

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2299919 -

so anyway, what's with the nonsense here? I don't understand


I would have to agree with Swami in this case. As long as the situation was as like he said, then it isn't really swami's actions that was the source of the pain, rather it was lies. it depends on the tone, the way you went about it, and your intent, none of which I can say for sure, but it sounds like she flipped

This person believed this and that's partially on them. I think they should be able to handle themselves even in a time of being shown that they were lied to.

"Nope. I just can?t accept this. Sorry.
I?m not about forcing anything on ?sleeping dogs?? I just don?t see the point of letting them waste their lives warming my floor."

the point isn't really for you to wonder is it?? do you spend your time and energy seeing the points in people's lives? i don't think you could make that kind of judgement.

i mean, people go through phases all the time. it's one of the things about life, change. my brother was first christian, then muslim, and now he's neither. he found his own way. he preached to me a lot, but I don't argue with him because it was pointless.

now you see these sleeping dogs, and to you they might not be doing something, but to them there's a lot happening. my brother encountered so much while he was in religion, and he is doing awesome now!

so how can you make a judgement? how do you know when something is and isn't going to happen?


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Swami]
    #2300134 -

I don't get it Swami, it seems more negativity is directed at those who reveal lies than those who sold their lies to the naive (and easily hurt) in the first place. If one cares about those who's feelings are hurt, shouldn't one despise the actions of liars, charlatans and hucksters more than those who reveal that the innocently credulous have been scammed?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Swami]
    #2300327 -

Swami said:
Today, I am still puzzled by the same reaction when some people find out that their pet mystery is not so mysterious.


Hm? I guess this reaction is not a result of finding out that their mystery would not be a mystery, but simply because they find out they are victims of deception. And this hurts. They are also ashamed and this hurts even more. So nobody can blaim them but the "teacher" in question.

Usually, when people reach true enlightment, their reaction is quite different. They are peaceful and calm inside. They feal great. And for them you can say that their mystery is not so much mysterious as it was before when they were on The Path.

Quote:
Did not Jesus (puh-lease, before you go off, I am not comparing myself to a sage) say something about removing the scales from one's eyes?


Indeed he did. But it's an art of how you do that in a way that hurts the least.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Evolving]
    #2300400 -

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Quincunx]
    #2300413 -

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Evolving]
    #2300475 -

Don't expect a straight answer as some are too busy bashing to actually join in the discussion.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: ]
    #2300486 -

Mr_Mushrooms said:
Seriously though, I think it all comes down to how the message is conveyed, who it is addressed to, and what the intention of the speaker is.


Intentions are often difficult to know.

Quote:
It is no coincidence that a synonym of 'skeptic' is cynic.


Not in the dictionaries I've looked at. What is your source?

Quote:
Currently the rules of this forum prohibit "sneers and sarcasm" because they do not really offer anything substantive to a discussion. Their intent is to hurt or arouse negative emotions.


How do you divine the intentions of someone who uses sarcasm? Are you basing this on your own use of sarcasm? Can't sarcasm merely be an attempt at humor, where the intent is to make others laugh?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Evolving]
    #2300535 -

hey, anyone want to play the synonym game? :laugh:

it's kinda like the six degrees of seperation game...
take two words, a thesaurus and go crazy!
you can connect any two words using synonyms

here I'll start

love:
adore
respect
reverence
amazement
astonishment
shock
upset
offend
insult
abuse
cruelty
malice
hatred
hate
:eek:

(source: MS Word thesaurus)

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2300716 -

And now you know how to properly contort another's words to suit your own selfish needs.
"I see... so by 'love,' you really meant 'hate'!!"

Also, what's with all the labels?
Can a person be skeptical without being labeled a "skeptic"? Yes.
Can a person believe something without being labeled a "believer"? Yes.


I'm here with an open mind to share with open minds. Though it seems as if it might be impossible as some people take these discussions a bit too seriously and get offended at the slightest hint of sarcasm.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.... I've not ONCE been offended here on these boards and I've been insulted many times and threatened many times (by several "open minded" posters). Is it because I've got a thicker shell than others? Nope. Is it because I'm riding the tallest horse in the stable? Nope. Then why is it that I refuse to take offense at these WORDS?

Maybe it's because I've got nothing to prove. Maybe it's because I'm not looking for that perfect rock on which I can build my house of cards. Or maybe it's because I just can't stop laughing after hearing the ultimate punchline: "why?"


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Swami]
    #2300728 -

MM: For to be a seeker is to be the opposite of a skeptic.

4 entries found for seeker.
seek?er P Pronunciation Key (s k r) n.

1. One that seeks: a seeker of the truth.

2. A device used in a moving object, especially a missile, that locates a target by detecting light, heat, or other radiation.
[Download or Buy Now]

Source: The American Heritage? Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright ? 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
seeker

\Seek"er\, n. 1. One who seeks; that which is used in seeking or searching.

2. (Eccl.) One of a small heterogeneous sect of the 17th century, in Great Britain, who professed to be seeking the true church, ministry, and sacraments.

A skeptic [is] ever seeking and never finds, like our new upstart sect of Seekers. --Bullokar.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, ? 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

seeker
n : someone making a search or inquiry; "they are seekers after truth" [syn: searcher]

Source: WordNet ? 1.6, ? 1997 Princeton University


6 entries found for skeptic.
scep?tic P Pronunciation Key (sk p t k)
n.
Variant of skeptic.

[Download or Buy Now]
Source: The American Heritage? Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright ? 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

skep?tic also scep?tic P Pronunciation Key (sk p t k)
n.
1. One who instinctively or habitually doubts, questions, or disagrees with assertions or generally accepted conclusions.

2. One inclined to skepticism in religious matters.

3. Philosophy.

a. often Skeptic An adherent of a school of skepticism.
b. Skeptic A member of an ancient Greek school of skepticism, especially that of Pyrrho of Elis (360?-272? B.C.).

Latin Scepticus, disciple of Pyrrho of Elis, from Greek Skeptikos, from skeptesthai, to examine. See spek- in Indo-European Roots.]

[Download or Buy Now]
Source: The American Heritage? Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright ? 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

skeptic
\Skep"tic\, n. [Gr. skeptiko`s thoughtful, reflective, fr. ske`ptesqai to look carefully or about, to view, consider: cf. L. scepticus, F. sceptique. See Scope.] [Written also sceptic.] 1. One who is yet undecided as to what is true; one who is looking or inquiring for what is true; an inquirer after facts or reasons.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, ? 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


skeptic
\Skep"tic\, Skeptical \Skep"tic*al\, a. [Written also sceptic, sceptical.] 1. Of or pertaining to a sceptic or skepticism; characterized by skepticism; hesitating to admit the certainly of doctrines or principles; doubting of everything.

2. (Theol.) Doubting or denying the truth of revelation, or the sacred Scriptures.

The skeptical system subverts the whole foundation of morals. --R. Hall. -- Skep\"tac*al*ly, adv. -- Skep\"tic*al*ness, n.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, ? 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

skeptic
n : someone who habitually doubts accepted beliefs [syn: sceptic, doubter]
Source: WordNet ? 1.6, ? 1997 Princeton University

--------------------------------------
I don?t think there is much of a difference between a ?skeptic? and a ?seeker?, really. Some of us might more strongly shake the truth out than others of us.

I am the type to accept something someone says until someone or something else comes along and shows me why it?s wrong, or right. I keep looking. I don?t always like having my beliefs shaken up, because as someone said, I like the comfort of my beliefs. But I would rather know the truth than be comfortable.

Then there are the true skeptics, who don?t really seem to accept anything as the truth, but are always looking for the puppeteer?s hand for an explanation. We need these people because they more vociferously look for the truth and point it out.

I like skeptics, although sometimes I want to kick them in the nuts. I like skeptics because I tend to be gullible and na?ve. I tend to accept things at word-value, because of how my brain works. But skeptics help clear up the bullshit for me, so I appreciate them even more.

Swami, I think it?s funny that the girl ran away crying. Like someone else posted, she was probably embarrassed or something that she believed the bullshit. If I hear someone talking about something that I know is bullshit, I will comment on what I know, as well. If they want to pursue it further, I will explain it to them. If they run away screaming, so be it. Shows me where that person is at in his/her growth cycle.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Swami]
    #2301345 -

swami, have you ever met this person since that day?
if so, how did you get along? did she still hate you?
i had a good laugh reading your story.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: mr crisper]
    #2301770 -

She ignored me for the rest of her stay and I never saw her again after we left Ananda.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Evolving]
    #2301790 -

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Frog]
    #2301806 -

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: ]
    #2301935 -

Mr_Mushrooms said:
That's all well and good, Frog.

However, it is common for women who have been abused to be unable to detect abuse. Ding ding?


I generally miss things because I need to be directly hit over the head even before I get a joke.

So, on that note, what does "However, it is common for women who have been abused to be unable to detect abuse. Ding ding?", as you stated above, mean???


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Frog]
    #2301991 -

It means that Mr_Mushrooms, as nice as he thinks he is, is trying press your buttons (probably for agreeing with Swami in some way).

I find it hilarious that THIS:
MM: And I don't waste my time twiddling my thumbs trying to see how best to goad someone.
Is directly followed by THIS:
MM: That's all well and good, Frog.
However, it is common for women who have been abused to be unable to detect abuse. Ding ding?


Evolving: Intentions are often difficult to know.
MM: In the meantime courts have no problem with assigning blame and motive to guilty people. I guess intentions might not be as difficult to arrive at as it seems.

Hmm...
I don't see how someone chastising MM for not keeping his word is the same as a "death threat." Everybody who has read his silly "Help Me!" thread knows the story of his paranoiac overreaction and yet he still thinks he is more than adept at reading intent?

There's a whole lot of internal incoherence going on here... but will the machine break or fix itself?


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Sclorch]
    #2302043 -

I'm hoping that I am only mistaking Mr Mushrooms' words for evidence that he is now going after me, so I thought I'd clarify first.

MM, would you care to explain what you meant?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Sclorch]
    #2302065 -

that's a good point (about the help me thread), maybe some people confuse projected intent (mind reading) with what was actually intended.
Evolving is right, intent is hard to read, especially online. but it doesn't stop some from assuming the worst in people.

frog: MM, would you care to explain what you meant?

it's called "fishing", a common tactic employed by mind readers...
actually I have NO idea what that was supposed to mean.
I thought he was outing you or something.
he had no qualms about breaking his trust with Swami.
/shrugs

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2302111 -

I am not sure, but it could be yet another case of attempting to hurt someone (in a loving spiritual way to show them the light) by revealing personal stuff shared in confidence. I sincerely hope not though. I will readily admit that intent is hard to determine by a few words.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (02/04/04 06:37 PM)

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Sclorch]
    #2302149 -

Maybe hes referring to the fact of co-dependency, we have had this discussion before on families and the like. This also had some discussion with alcoholism i believe.

Ding Ding? AKA ring a bell? I think thats what he meant.

Whats going on around here? i sense bitterness sclorch... hmmmmm.


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What?

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2302270 -

Nope... no bitterness. Being bitter takes waaaay too much effort.

It's more like a swarm of gnats... they fly in your ears, nose, and eyes... they don't hurt you, but damn are they incessantly annoying.

So I took a swat... so what?


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Frog]
    #2302606 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Sclorch]
    #2302609 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Sclorch]
    #2302633 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: ]
    #2302650 -

I bet you were teacher's pet.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: ]
    #2302651 -

Mr_Mushrooms said:
Quote:
Zero7a1 said:
Maybe hes referring to the fact of co-dependency, we have had this discussion before on families and the like. This also had some discussion with alcoholism i believe.

Ding Ding? AKA ring a bell? I think thats what he meant.

Whats going on around here? i sense bitterness sclorch... hmmmmm.


Zero7a1 got it right.  I was referring to the fact that you have been abused and that because of that you couldn't tell if a skeptic was really abusing someone or not.


Is Swami the skeptic about whom you are speaking?  Honestly, if Swami is saying something abusive towards me, I wouldn't know it.  I think I can usually tell if someone is being blatantly "mean" to me.  But if someone is hiding mean words under cover, I would probably not be able to tell. 

Of course, if anyone ever notices that someone is being abusive towards me, and I am naively not noticing, please PM me.  I hate when I am the last to know that I am being mistreated.  That's what happened at the last forum to which I belonged.  My girlfriend made me leave there and come here, to live with all of you clowns.  :grin:  It was like being in OTD, there.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Sclorch]
    #2302666 -

You told me your name was John Doe, what gives?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Frog]
    #2302673 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Evolving]
    #2302676 -

Actually, it's Kenneth John Doe... but who cares, right?

Fuck being on top of things... I'm moving to Boringville, OH where nobody can challenge me...


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: ]
    #2302683 -

Quote:
Mr_Mushrooms said:
Well, ****** ******. It is ******, isn't it? It looks like you are getting quite used to miscalculation. I've read your preprints, both of them, one on Nazi ciphers and the other one on non-linear equations. And I am supremely confident there is not a single creative or innovative idea in either one of them.

Enjoy your punch.

Say, you're a friend of Swami's, aren't you?


From S&P Forum Rules *UPDATED - BAITING*
2) Baiting: Posting for the purpose of "baiting" will not be tolerated. This includes, but is not limited to, posts of little content which serve to belittle in any way another member's post and/or his or her ideas. Having a different viewpoint is one thing...making fun of another person's viewpoint is another thing entirely. Basically, if you don't have something constructive to say...seriously reconsider your post. Also, personal confrontations of a mindless sort do not belong in S&P and should be taken to PM. As with Flaming, any Baiting will result in a warning. Second offence results in a temp ban. Third results in a permanent ban.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Evolving]
    #2302692 -

This shit is hilarious... it's like I'm in high school again... but the kids are likely to have less hair and more credit.

I really wish S&P didn't stand for Soap Opera and Philosophy.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Evolving]
    #2302705 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: ]
    #2302751 -

Quote:
Mr_Mushrooms said:
So sorry, it really doesn't qualify as baiting.


But when others use sarcasm intended to get a laugh that does qualify as baiting? Hmmm... I don't know, your intentions seemed pretty clear (or is that just in the eye of the beholder?).

Quote:
But while we're at it, how 'bout a beer?


OK.

Quote:
There is absolutely no ill intention in my posts.


Now, that's not the way it may be perceived by others... and that's what is important isn't it? Not that you intend to have fun, but that you don't realize you may be thought of as malicious and hurtful.

Quote:
Hell, if we were in a bar I'd buy the first round.


... and I would accept.

Quote:
Besides being incredibly intelligent I am absolutely loaded!


If I keep drinking at this rate, I will be too.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Evolving]
    #2302948 -

the sad thing is (and you see this in society all the time), we have empowered the easily offended. it does not matter how something is intended. all that matters is how it's received...

feeble minds and their sensitivities. they sure make the world a "nicer" place...

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2302951 -

Yeah, those people should F*** off :lol:


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Sclorch]
    #2302957 -

yeah it is pretty hilarious. a lot like high school.
well... there weren't as many damaged goods.


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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2302973 -

hey I have no idea what you meant by that but what the heck, I'll assume the worst:
I'M OFFENDED!!!
urgent! I need help!

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: silversoul7]
    #2303222 -

*ahem* One and all can we try to have a real discussion without obtuse generalities now that everyone has gotten that out of their system?

Let sleeping dogs lie. Some people are happier living in an illusion. Just leave them to be. If they want the truth, they'll come looking for it.

Do you truly believe that?

Was it a good thing that no one attempted to wake up the citizenry of Nazi Germany in the 1930s?

How would someone find the truth out after drinking the poison at Jonestown? Would you have stood idly by if your friend had been there and you had some inkling of what was going on?

Is it OK that your aging grandmother gets scammed out of her life-savings because she is trusting and gullible? Is that a good lesson for her to learn or would you step in and confront the con artists if you knew about it?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Swami]
    #2303307 -

Ok, you make a point here, but this seems vaguely like comparing apples and oranges. Some people need something to believe in, and it doesn't seem like this woman was harming anyone else with her beliefs. If it makes her happy and she's not hurting anyone else, then who are you to deprive her of her happiness?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: silversoul7]
    #2303347 -

How is the hypothetical grandmother hurting anyone? Should we abandon all watchdog agencies? Disband all bunko police squads that investigate fraud; kind of an "every man for himself"?

If it makes her happy and she's not hurting anyone else, then who are you to deprive her of her happiness?
Reread the story. I was curious about the process, not attempting to steal another's happiness.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Swami]
    #2303366 -

Ok, I give up. Let's just expose everyone to the cold, hard, truth, whether or not they can handle it.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: silversoul7]
    #2303415 -

Truth is cold and illusion is warm and fuzzy? Aren't most people here seekers of truth?

Don't give up; you are almost there!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Swami]
    #2303441 -

Truth is a tile floor and illusion is the slippers on my feet. Is that what your getting at?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Evolving]
    #2303448 -

You are truly a Zen Master and I bow to your koan.  :biggrin:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Sclorch]
    #2303454 -

Quote:
This shit is hilarious... it's like I'm in high school again... but the kids are likely to have less hair and more credit.

I really wish S&P didn't stand for Soap Opera and Philosophy. 



well, i was just speaking about the biterness that seems to have been around lately. That it sucks that shit sucks, you know. And I wonder, well why doest this sucky shit suck?

I wasnt insinuating anything :wink: ,


The thing about the bullshit in high school was, dont even get involved, and forget about it... but its harder here cause we are trying to talk about ideas, but everyone is so vastly different, and come from such different views, there is a clash.

This is what it must have been like for people a long time ago, who had just migrated into one another... its been the same thing! Crashh Crashh Crashh.

:eyemouth:


--------------------
What?

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2303485 -

Zero7a1 said:
... i was just speaking about the biterness that seems to have been around lately. That it sucks that shit sucks, you know. And I wonder, well why doest this sucky shit suck?



This too, like gas, shall pass.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Swami]
    #2303495 -

Swami said:
... and I bow to your koan.


You should bow to my Cohen, he's my attorney.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Swami]
    #2303558 -

I think the point is how to open someone's eyes in a way that hurts the least (everyone involved in the situation). This is not always an easy action and it's not always possibile. But it's always worth to try in that direction.
Quote:
How is the hypothetical grandmother hurting anyone?


If someone would present the truth to her in an improper way she could easly start to hate even those who would justify her trust otherwise. It is possibile she would not become a sceptic, but someone who carries hate inside. And hate is a very negative and powerfull feeling that it is dangerous to tempt with.

If i hurt someone with the truth unintentionaly, i don't feel okey even if i'm not directly responsibile. And the next step i try then is to make the truth warmer. The truth is usally as cold as it is presented. But i think it is not cold by default.

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Quincunx]
    #2303817 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Birth of a Skeptic [Re: Swami]
    #2303846 -

Well I'm sorry to say this thread has to be locked. Because you (and you know who you are) cannot seem to learn how to post while obeying the forum rules.

This sort of back-and-forth accusation/denile is exactly one of the things we do not want in this forum, and it is one of the things that will go away starting now or all parties involved will receive a warning and then a ban.

It takes two to fight...

I thought this thread could go somewhere, buy you've gone and proven me wrong. If I get a PM from the guilty parties I will consider reopening it...but not until then.

Thank you.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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