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 Phencyclidine
Molecule
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
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 Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics  [Re: Swami]
#1734168 - 07/21/03 04:25 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
and started to doubt everyhting
That has nothing to do with skepticism
What do you mean this has nothing to do with skepticism? Surely you've heard of Descartes' Evil Demon problem, right?
It is a prime example of skepticism taken to its logical extreme.
Quote:
, but sounds like a mental disorder. ]/quote]
Only if you *assume* other humans exist.
Quote:
I ACTUALLY believe there are other human beings responding to my posts at a distance.
Can you prove that other human beings exist? No. Skepticism can be taken to an extreme which does sound like mental illness. That doesn't mean that it has "nothing to do with" skepticism.
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 Malachi
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Registered: 06/19/02
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Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Swami]
#1734171 - 07/21/03 04:31 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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I know you aren't. I think that I'm starting to understand your motivations more clearly, and they're at least twofold: your ostensible motivation, to prevent logical chasm jumping amongst the kiddies (such as I- which I appreciate, even if I don't act like it) but also to distance yourself from the perceived flakiness of a mushroom eating "mystic spook". even at my age I have to deal with alot of people who immediately categorize potheads, much less tripped out monkeys like myself with the likes of crystal healers and weekend trustafarians. It must be waaayyy more of a bitch to have to go to extreme logical lengths to control the damage your mystic spookiness instills in the intelligentsia.
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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich
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Phencyclidine
Molecule
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
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Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Swami]
#1734173 - 07/21/03 04:33 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
*Malachi takes the bait and swallows* Aha! You are skeptical of my source. I am very proud of you my son.
You might have a skeptical attitude, but you don't seem to understand basic philosophy.
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Steevil
Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 103
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Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics *DELETED* [Re: Swami]
#1734367 - 07/21/03 07:42 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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Post deleted by SteevilReason for deletion: I had embarrassing opinions in the noughties
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Rhizoid
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Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Steevil]
#1734420 - 07/21/03 08:52 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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There is a slightly different meaning of the word skeptic in the context of philosophy of science which is not the same thing as hardcore epistemological skepticism. In this context a skeptic is not a philosopher who doubts everything, but a person who uses critical thinking to arrive at the truth rather than believe anything just because it feels good to believe it.
The Skeptic's Dictionary exemplifies this type of skepticism. It's only skeptical about claims based on uncritical thinking, not about everything.
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Malachi
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Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
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Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Rhizoid]
#1734478 - 07/21/03 09:31 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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still, it's a matter of degree, so it's silly to criticize someone who is more skeptical than you are.
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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich
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Rhizoid
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Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Malachi]
#1734536 - 07/21/03 10:09 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yes, that is silly. But I interpreted Swami's comparison of hardcore epistemological skepticism with mental disorder as a rhetorical defense against the misrepresentation of his position that was presented here. I won't put words in Swami's mouth though, so I'll leave it at that.
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Zero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland
Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
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Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Zero7a1]
#1734812 - 07/21/03 12:04 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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Looking back Swami, you said that very few have put relationships up on here as a matter of skeptical inquiry?
WEll i should say that i tried to do that with my life... i had a relationship and i had tried to make sense of it. (it was really messing with my head). I had these thoughts that would paralyze me from going out of the house... doing, thinking about certain things. I would set up walls so i wouldnt have to think about them. Because in my "belief" that i had loved this girl i tore myself to shreds... beyond what we know as tangible... or graspable. But what i see from what you said... now looking back then... I myself did not really want to know the truth... that maybe it wouldnt work out. and that maybe i was just a kid and i wasnt really to find love. But i had wanted iit... i put everything into it, so much as to where it almost destroyed my life. But its not till now that i start to let go. That the skepticism of my own beliefs have started to cease, and my acceptance of my own life, my own real issues comes into play. It wasnt really a matter of that i didnt Want to know... Its that i couldnt really handle knowing. And i couldnt tell you what it would have done to me if i had let it all slip back then... if i hadnt tried to hide. I think in that process ive tried to save parts of myself... keep that own place for me where all those dis assembled things could go back to once its all over. maybe this will make my post have a little bit more sense... maybe put some light on the subject?
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What?
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fireworks_god
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Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Zero7a1]
#1734972 - 07/21/03 01:07 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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Okay, I am not going to get fully involved in this arguement or anything; however, I have a couple of things I would like to add.
First, Swami is here to keep us grounded, I believe. "The kiddies" don't need to float off entirely to a new reality (because this reality is still here, and that creates problems with dealing with this reality, as Vibrant found out, I believe). "One foot in reality", I believe, is a good phrase and is applicable here.
Secondly, anger, in my belief, is a direct or indirect result of fear. Anger is basically a reaction stemming from fear. A lot of things can camoflauge anger, but deep down inside, somewhere, hidden away, rumbles fear.
Fear is basically a security issue. Fear that something will be taken away, fear that something is out of your "control", etc.
Anyways, I'm not doing my best at saying what I'm trying to say, so I'll leave it like this. Hope it helps.
Peace.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
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Phencyclidine
Molecule
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
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Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Rhizoid]
#1735051 - 07/21/03 01:33 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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Fair point, that there are different types of skeptics within philosophical systems.
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DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
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Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Phencyclidine]
#1735078 - 07/21/03 01:43 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have no problem with skeptics. I am one myself, and skepticism comes in real handy when sorting out good spiritual knowledge from fanatic garbage.
but on the other hand, I see determinist rhetoric as a form of fascist intellectual propaganda designed to effect those with a high need for cognition.
there will never be a unified field theory, but there will be something so close that 99% of people wont be able to tell the difference. and the hard scientists will use it to control our perceptions of reality.
I have seen many things that cannot be logically explained with my own eyes, and I regard any attempt to tell me that they didn't happen or there was some logical explanation as fascists trying to brainwash me.
yes, I am a paranoid conspiracy nut who believes in the occult. make fun of me all you want, but you could simply realize that modern science still hasn't figured out what the universe is or how it works and there may be things in the universe that by their very nature are beyond the logical understanding of the finite mind of man.
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Ego Death
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Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Swami]
#1735835 - 07/21/03 05:09 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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>>>Only that which is false fears the light and demands to stay cloaked. It does not need to be protected; only revealed.<<<
Why do u assume that anything hidden is not true. What about the lies that you told as a child because you knew it would save your parent/s from going mad. I.E Camping out but telling them u r sleeping at a friends
Some things in this world are truths protected to stop chaos.
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Zero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland
Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
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Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: fireworks_god]
#1735981 - 07/21/03 06:02 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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IM not really trying to debate anything here. i dont really try to argue with anyone here. I just say what i have to say... and thats it. I take what i can into consideration, see what people think, and reflect. ive lost sight of my reason for posting. Maybe i never had one to begin. and thought it would be cool to ramble... but now i see what mess i am in. O well.... *jumps off bridge*
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