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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Fear and Loathing of Skeptics
    #1733917 - 07/21/03 03:12 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

"The truth shall set you free."

Anger is a form of fear channeled outwards, which is the usual response to skeptical inquiry. Why is that?

Anything "real" will stand up to scrutiny. Truth is not so fragile that it will shatter at the slightest touch or so frightened that it will go scurrying off like a cockroach when you turn the kitchen light on. Only that which is false fears the light and demands to stay cloaked. It does not need to be protected; only revealed.



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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Swami]
    #1733931 - 07/21/03 03:21 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

"Anger is a form of fear channeled outwards"

nope.

many forms/incidents of anger have nothing to do with fear.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Swami]
    #1733949 - 07/21/03 03:30 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

no, truth can be fragile.

example, the first phases of a relationship. you might be the type that feels it necessary to "shed light" into the "truth" of a womans feelings, but others understand that there are many circumstances (beyond this example) where less is more, where trying to bustle in and define and categorize and summarize and reduce is not what is needed to "understand"; these matters are simply to profound to write a neat synopsis outlining various arguments and your stance on the issue and your grounds for said stance, etc.

that's why we have artists, cause (not to be personal, but if you are identifying yourself as such...) people like you can't express what people like me want to hear. skeptics only disprove ideas.


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Swami]
    #1733959 - 07/21/03 03:36 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

good point. its like a dream... you know its so ambiguous. and it seems like for me there is points to dreams... sometimes. and you try to find out what it is... or what you are... but you get scared and you dont want to die... or know some things. Maybe because we are afraid of what we dont understand... and what we have to udnerstand is that we dont know too much about ourselves. Maybe people feel threatened and naked. Because they understand so little of the world around them. And when put under scrutiny they do not think of the fact that they are afraid or have a sheild of thought, but that they lack the ability to cope with a higher understanding. But i dont think scrutiny should be overly put on something... cause if you have been like me... and started to doubt everyhting... you would surely go crazy... at least for a while... till you tried to correct it.


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What?


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1733974 - 07/21/03 03:39 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

and started to doubt everyhting

That has nothing to do with skepticism, but sounds like a mental disorder. I ACTUALLY believe there are other human beings responding to my posts at a distance.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Malachi]
    #1733989 - 07/21/03 03:44 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

no, truth can be fragile. example, the first phases of a relationship.

You are going far afield here as relationships have not been brought under skeptical inquiry on these boards however; it is not the truth that is fragile the the connection between the people.

Purely fictional for argument's sake:
The fact that you were married twice before remains no matter how you look at it. The fact that your girlfriend was a stripper and had an abortion remains. This won't change. The question then becomes can the parties involved deal with the truth which is a separate issue.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Swami]
    #1733990 - 07/21/03 03:44 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

yeah they are at a distance. you are in california i believe, and im in texas. pretty far man :wink: i thought you were more clever than that. :smile: . yeah mental disorder... depression. whatever. but i recall reading Crime and Punishment by fyodor dostoyevkey. and i remember reading one of the characters talking about how they heard (in the book). that mental disorders were nothing but a mere logical error, a bad thought in the brain. I dont think i have anything really chemically or physically wrong with me that keeps me doubting. it may be a chemical embalance. anyway.... back to the point


am i fearing you? i have tried to take what you say into consideration. Are you skeptical of my skepticism?


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What?


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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Swami]
    #1733993 - 07/21/03 03:45 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

what are you talking about? so the whole epistemological debate is just mentally deranged vs. sane?

cartesian certitude is soooo 1999.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Swami]
    #1734001 - 07/21/03 03:51 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I was refering to the "truth" of anothers feelings toward yourself. as I said, this is hypothetical. a romatic relationship just illustrates the point in a more accessable manner than, say, psychic powers or god. they are all deeply personal issues which, as I said before, are currently better left to the poets than the philosophers.

hence the tendency for philosophic waxing to be poetic at it's best, and kantian at it's worse.

can you guess where the self proclaimed "skeptic" fits in on that spectrum?


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Malachi]
    #1734003 - 07/21/03 03:52 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

so the whole epistemological debate is just mentally deranged vs. sane?

Where do you come up with this?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
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Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Swami]
    #1734052 - 07/21/03 04:31 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
and started to doubt everyhting

That has nothing to do with skepticism, but sounds like a mental disorder. I ACTUALLY believe there are other human beings responding to my posts at a distance.




doubt of proof of existence of "everything" or "anything" is the central epistemological debate I refer to. duh, like you didn't understand what I was trying to say. you're just obstinate.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
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Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Malachi]
    #1734054 - 07/21/03 04:34 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

oh, and"

"The wise therefore rule by emptying hearts and stuffing bellies,
by weakening ambitions and strengthening bones.
If people lack knowledge and desire,
then intellectuals will not try to interfere.
If nothing is done, then all will be done." --Tao Te Ching 3


that's why skeptics aren't to be trusted. sensitivity to the tao is to be valued above mind games.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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OfflineDiscordja
Pope

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 243
Loc: Atlantic Canada
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Malachi]
    #1734063 - 07/21/03 04:39 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cartesian certitude is soooo 1999




I love intellectual valley-girlisms. Kudos!


--------------------
Remember, it's only true if it makes you laugh...


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Malachi]
    #1734105 - 07/21/03 05:15 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

that's why skeptics aren't to be trusted.
How can there be trust or distrust in a question?

Skeptic: "Is the sky really blue?"

Malachi: "How can I trust you after asking that?"

sensitivity to the tao is to be valued above mind games.
Talk about your basic non-sequiter...

Do you believe that John Edwards channels the dead?



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1734110 - 07/21/03 05:19 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

"Anger is a form of fear channeled outwards"

nope.


From a counseling website:

Transforming
Anger & Fear

Anger is stressful and destructive to you personally, to your productivity, and to your relationships. This tape teaches you how to release anger and heal the fear which is its real underlying cause.



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Swami]
    #1734120 - 07/21/03 05:23 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:

Do you believe that John Edwards channels the dead?





riiiight, cause edwards and Lao Tsu are on the same level. I'm done responding to you if this is the kind of weak shit you're going to spew, for christssake you dropped like 4 contentions..... just flow those over to the affirmative side.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Swami]
    #1734123 - 07/21/03 05:27 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
"Anger is a form of fear channeled outwards"

nope.


From a counseling website:

Transforming
Anger & Fear

Anger is stressful and destructive to you personally, to your productivity, and to your relationships. This tape teaches you how to release anger and heal the fear which is its real underlying cause.






are you being serious? a counseling website is your grounds?

really, you're trying to say that fear doesn't always lead to anger, just say so instead of going to the trouble of presenting laughable fodder as grounds for this line of thinking. If, on the other hand, you're serious, then I guess it is just time to laugh straight up.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Malachi]
    #1734129 - 07/21/03 05:31 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

are you being serious? a counseling website is your grounds?

*Malachi takes the bait and swallows* Aha! You are skeptical of my source. I am very proud of you my son.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Swami]
    #1734131 - 07/21/03 05:34 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

well, I suppose that means that the mean spirited laughing will have to wait as the friendly chuckling commences.  :smile:


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Fear and Loathing of Skeptics [Re: Malachi]
    #1734135 - 07/21/03 05:39 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Heh, heh! I love to tease, but am not really mean.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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