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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Brown Rice Flour, Pressure Cooker, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed

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Offlinerockytop83
Ornoth/Myc/ologist

Registered: 01/21/04
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My first question... many will probobly follow.
    #2288146 - 01/30/04 10:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hello all knowing shroomers,

Ive done my research, believe me... about a months worth and im finally going to attempt my first grow. PF-tek of course! So i gathered my 1/2 pint jars, BRF, and vermiculate and plan on ordering spores (ralphsters of course) tommarow. My question is...

Would it be a good idea to go ahead and steralize my jars, or should i wait untill my syringes arrive? I unfortunatly am going to have to resort to steam sterlization, as i am a very poor college student and cannot afford a PC at this time. I was thinking that steralizing my jars now would be a good idea, that way if any jars still did have contams i would be able to catch it before innoculation and wouldnt waste any valuble spores. What do you guys think?

PS... i cant wait to get my feet wet in this hobby and am so thankfull for the shroomery, and all of you experts out there's assistance.


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~You know that same rowdy crowd was here last night is back again~


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Anonymous

Re: My first question... many will probobly follow. [Re: rockytop83]
    #2288159 - 01/30/04 10:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

ya do it now. I have WBS spawn bags for trade if you have anything interesting to trade. I mean anything electronics cds whatever


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: My first question... many will probobly follow. [Re: fee]
    #2289072 - 01/31/04 05:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If you are steam steralizing, it may be worth it to make some early... if they contam, try again.... double steralization sometimes helps when you must boil.


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Fiddlesticks.



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Offlinerockytop83
Ornoth/Myc/ologist

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 588
Loc: Rocky-lachians
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: My first question... many will probobly follow. [Re: Rose]
    #2289525 - 01/31/04 02:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Double steralization huh? Ive never heard of anyone doing this. However, doesnt seem like a bad idea. I was wondering if its possible to over-steralize though. If i were to steralize twice, how long should i wait between steralizations, should i

A) steralize them, leave them in the pot, let them cool, and then boil again.

B) steralize them, wait a few days, and steralize again?

Also, if anyone has tried this, let me know how you went about doing it and what was your success rate?


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~You know that same rowdy crowd was here last night is back again~


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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: My first question... many will probobly follow. [Re: rockytop83]
    #2289550 - 01/31/04 02:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hmmmm you have a problem there... If you sterilize now and wait to inject, you'll have a lot of contamination.... if you wait now and sterilize later, your jars will ferment long before your spores arrive... If you sterilize twice, your jars will lose moisture and the process will suffer....

the only thing to do is throw out what's in your jars now (i'm assuming you packed them already) repack them when your spores arrive, sterilize and inject as soon as the jars are cool.


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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Offlinerockytop83
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Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 588
Loc: Rocky-lachians
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: My first question... many will probobly follow. [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #2289571 - 01/31/04 02:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

OK, well MilkeOLogical, what your telling me is the opposite of what Fee and Cervantes said. However, they have been around longer and are probobly more reputable. I havnt done anything to my jars yet, and am now scared to try anything before my spores arive. More input is desired.


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~You know that same rowdy crowd was here last night is back again~


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: My first question... many will probobly follow. [Re: rockytop83]
    #2289591 - 01/31/04 02:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If you have the stuff, it can't hurt to make some jars now.... especially if you haven't done it before. You may need to make a batch or two before you get the hang of it anyway.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineMax1
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Re: My first question... many will probobly follow. [Re: rockytop83]
    #2289595 - 01/31/04 02:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Go ahead and make them. If they contam then youll know. Wont hurt a thing to do them early. I try not to do make my jars up to early but if your not going to pc them its the best way. Youll see soon enough if your sterilization is good enough with out wasting your spores. They can sit for a few weeks before use so go for it.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: My first question... many will probobly follow. [Re: rockytop83]
    #2289635 - 01/31/04 02:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I have let jars sit for 2 weeks before injection. Didnt notice any problems.


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Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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Offlinerockytop83
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Re: My first question... many will probobly follow. [Re: niteowl]
    #2289671 - 01/31/04 03:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Thats what i thought too. Ive decided that i am going to steralize half my jars today, to make sure everything works smoothly. By the way, i just put the postage stamp on my order to Ralph, im soooo excited.


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~You know that same rowdy crowd was here last night is back again~


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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: My first question... many will probobly follow. [Re: rockytop83]
    #2289713 - 01/31/04 03:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

i still stand by what i said before, reputable or not... i've seen jars sit for a week and then get injected without problems... i also saw jars sit for a week and half of them had mold by time they colonised... the longer jars sit before you inject them, the more contamination you will have, and every day you wait the jars lose moisture...


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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OfflineSatori1
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Re: My first question... many will probobly follow. [Re: rockytop83]
    #2289781 - 01/31/04 03:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I believe you should wait until your spores to arrive, and steam cook. I think it's best to innoculate as close as possible to when the jars return to room temperature, to give the mycelium a head start on any contaminates. However if you use filter patch bags, you could sterilize and worry about moisture loss before worrying about contams getting in.
I highly suggest you buy a pressure cooker. You could probably pick one up on E bay or a thrift store for $15-20.


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InvisibleBadEnglish
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Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 369
Re: My first question... many will probobly follow. [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #2289787 - 01/31/04 04:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If jars are properly sterilized it doesnt matter how long they sit as long as they are sealed they wont contam.The whole point is to kill off all the contams inside the jar.If nothing can get into the jar then they wont contam.If you have jars after a week that are contaminated,then you dont sterilize properly,if it is happening after innoculation,then you are letting contams in or it is your syringe or another factor.Some people purposly do jars ahead of time so they know for sure if any contams are present before innoculation.As long as you follow the procedure and keep the foil over them, youll be fine.


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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: My first question... many will probobly follow. [Re: BadEnglish]
    #2289798 - 01/31/04 04:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The problem is, the jars are not sealed. They breathe. they leak. Leave a jar sitting, and moisture will exit while air enters. The air inevitable has contams in it, which is why PF designed the dry vermiculite layer above the substrate. The vermiculite layer is not infallible however, so the longer the jar sits, the greater chance it will contaminate.


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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Offlinerockytop83
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Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 588
Loc: Rocky-lachians
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: My first question... many will probobly follow. [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #2289811 - 01/31/04 04:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Wow, thanks for all the great input. This seems to be a highly debatable question. I still think steralizing at least some of my jars would be a good idea. However, what do you all think about this idea i just came up with...

Could I put the jars in a zipplock bag after steralizing them to reduce the moisture loss/air intake untill my spores arrive? Seems logical to me, however ive never heard of anyone doing this.

I dont think its going to be THAT big of a deal anyway, seeing how i should have spores by next weekend.


--------------------


~You know that same rowdy crowd was here last night is back again~


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InvisibleBadEnglish
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Re: My first question... many will probobly follow. [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #2289817 - 01/31/04 04:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If you have the verm barrier and you leave the foil on and place them in a clean sterile enviroment(like a garbage bag sprayed on the inside with lysol,then sealed).Nothing is gonna get in.If they contam,you didnt sterilize properly.
And if what you say is true that jars arent sealed tight then why bother canning food,if air and contams can get in?
All your really doing with PF jars is Canning them,just like food.


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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: My first question... many will probobly follow. [Re: rockytop83]
    #2289828 - 01/31/04 04:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

A ziplock bag will provide a better seal than the jars do, granted. But look at it this way... if you sterilize now and wait a week, you MIGHT get good results, you might not. if you inject the jars immediately after sterilization (giving the jars several hours to cool, of course), Then you WILL get the best results possible. It is still a good idea to do the process a few times before you inject, just for practice.

Substrate is cheap. Spores are expensive. If you toss out what you have now, you've only lost some rice and some vermiculite. If you inject after a week of sitting, and things do not go well, then you have not only lost your rice and verm, you've also lost your spores.

But hey, I'm not the expert here. If the teddy bear says you can leave them sitting all you want, he's got all the mushroom ratings, he must be the expert, so you better listen to him. The spore dealers will still be there when you want to order more.


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: My first question... many will probobly follow. [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #2289859 - 01/31/04 04:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If you want to do something with this week, by all means, make some jars. It does take a little practice.

As for contams, search for tyvek or polyfil.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Re: My first question... many will probobly follow. [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #2290091 - 01/31/04 07:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

A ziplock bag will provide a better seal than the jars do, granted. But look at it this way... if you sterilize now and wait a week, you MIGHT get good results, you might not. if you inject the jars immediately after sterilization (giving the jars several hours to cool, of course), Then you WILL get the best results possible. It is still a good idea to do the process a few times before you inject, just for practice.




No I really think that your looking as this bass akward. If you sterilize a jar and let it sit for a week, and it doesen't contam (which it WON'T if you make your jars right), then you know your getting it reasonably sterile. Sterilizing a jar and letting sit is a GREAT way to test your sterilization proceedures. It's a CONTROL jar. If your jars contam after a week, don't you think that they will contam after a week WITH your expensive spores in them, too?? Steaming a jar for 90 min in a few inhces of water will get you 0 contams if you do everything right. If you use a polyfill filter you can eiminate the dry verm barrier, and use that room to shake up your substrate. Also the mycellium will be able to breathe thruough the polyfill making for faster colonization. Keep reading.  :rolleyes:


SM


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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: My first question... many will probobly follow. [Re: simplemachine]
    #2290302 - 01/31/04 08:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

there's no such thing as "reasonably sterile", either the jar is sterile or it isn't...
The sterility of the jars has nothing to do with contams that show up weeks later... when the jars come out of the pressure cooker, they are sterile, no doubt about that. After a week sitting in an unsterile room, they're still probably ok. Two weeks later, half of them are going to show signs of mold, unless they're fully colonized. If you inject spores when the jars are already sitting a week, they're probably still good when you do it. Two weeks later, when your jars are almost fully colonized, thats when you'll start to see your mold.

You only need one test jar to find out if your sterilisation method works ok, and if it doesn't you'll see those contams before a week is up, but there's no reason to repeat that process with every batch as long as your methods don't change...


So I see no benefit to waiting a week, and a whole lot of risk of contams if you do...


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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