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Re: Official Unbiased Ukraine Situation Thread [Re: trekie]
    #22134492 -

Great analysis of MH17--

It was almost certainly shot down by a Ukrainian Su-25 fighter jet.

Had a BUK been fired, there would have been overwhelming radar evidence and probably eyewitnesses for miles around.

But there was no smoke plume from a missile launch, and if a BUK had been fired by the rebels, the USA would have been able to present *Undeniable* radar evidence as proof... and yet this proof simply does not exist.

Ukrainian air traffic control ordered MH17 to change its flight path to fly over the war zone, no explanation was ever given for this. The Ukie ATC also ordered MH17 to lower its altitude.

Radar evidence clearly shows an Su-25 picking up speed and shadowing MH17.

It's just far too obvious. They were murdered by the Ukrainians in a false flag attack to be blamed on Russia and pro-Russian separatists.

Article:

http://www.unz.com/tsaker/flight-mh-17-one-year-later/

Flight MH-17: One Year Later

Over a year has passed since Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17 was been shot out of the skies by somebody, but we still don’t know the truth and all sorts of hypotheses continue circulating on the Internet. In the West, the Emperor Barack decreed on the day after the actual shoot-down that the party responsible for this atrocity was, of course, the Novorussians. That is as predictable as it is irrelevant since not a shred of evidence has been presented by anybody in the West. In contrast, the Russians did provide quite a lot of evidence, but it was all immediately dismissed without further ado. Again, this is also as predictable as it is irrelevant. The undeniable fact is that the western narrative about the Ukraine absolutely mandates that either the Russians or the Novorussians shot down MH-17. Any other version is completely unacceptable and therefore shall never be considered, let alone accepted, by the western politicians and their corporate media.

But for the rest of the world the question remains open: who shot down MH-17 and how?

The first thing we know is that the Ukrainian traffic air controllers directed MH-17 to fly directly over the combat zone and to lower its altitude. We also know as a fact that there was at least one Ukrainian aircraft in the immediate vicinity of MH-17 that day. This was confirmed both by Russian radar signals and by several local witnesses who saw at least one, possibly two, SU-25 aircraft in the air that day. Finally, we also know that Ukrainian air defense units were present in the area that day and that their radars were active. What nobody saw that day was the kind of large and highly visible smoke plume which would have accompanied any large missile launch, not did anybody hear anything special. There was apparently no missile launch, and yet the Ukrainian radars were active. Why?

I believe that MH-17 was shot down by a Ukrainian SU-25. Critics of this theory have pointed out that the SU-25 is a “close-air-support aircraft” which was designed to fly very low and to engage attacking armored columns, that it was never designed to fly very fast or very high, and the SU-25 does not have radar nor air-to-air missiles. Finally, the cockpit of the SU-25 is not pressurized which means that the pilot cannot fly over 7,000 meters in altitude. This is all quite true. But it also misses the point.

First, while it is true that the cabin of the SU-25 is not pressurized, all a pilot needs to do is use a mask to supply him with oxygen. The aircraft itself can easily fly well over the 7,000 meter limit. It is true that the speed of the aircraft is inadequate for intercepting a large civilian jet flying at its cruising speed. The SU-25 engines were never designed to fly high and while they can be made to bring the aircraft over 7,000 meters, they cannot develop enough speed in this rarefied atmosphere. But what the SU-25 can do is carry a R-60 infrared-guided missile. Not only does such a missile not require engagement radar, but its speed is over 3,000 kilometers per hour, far faster than any civilian airliner. The problem with the missile, however, is that its range is short, about 8,000 meters.

The SU-25 does not have radar capable of detecting a civilian airliner and guiding the SU-25 towards it. But the Buk missile radar battery definitely does. Since the course of the MH-17 was known well in advance, all the Ukrainians had to do was the keep one or two SU-25 loitering at low altitude under the air corridor which MH-17 would take and wait for the Buk missile operators to guide the best placed SU-25 towards the airliner at the appropriate moment. All the pilot would have to do when given the signal was to sharply climb towards MH-17 and get inside the missile’s flight envelope (in this case within less than 8 kilometers of MH-17) and then fire off his R-60 missile. At that point, the missile would guide itself towards the biggest heat source of the aircraft – one of the engines.

The R-60 is a rather small missile and it would never be able to destroy a large airliner like the Malaysia Airways Boeing 777. But the R-60 is more than capable of destroying one of the Boeing’s engines. At this point, the airliner would rapidly lose speed and enter into a sharp turn while the pilots would be trying to figure out what happened, extinguish a burning engine, and compensate for the increased drag. This is exactly what was observed on radar, by the way. The rapid loss of speed and altitude would make the Boeing easy prey for the SU-25 which has a powerful cannon on board which would then easily catch up and continue the attack with a volley of 30mm cannon fire. Having finished off its target, the SU-25 would then sharply turn and return to its base. This is exactly what the Russian radars saw.

One might wonder why the Ukrainians would use a close air support aircraft like the SU-25 instead of a dedicated interceptor like the SU-27 or a fighter like the MiG-29. Here again, the explanation is very simple: not only does the Ukraine have many more SU-25s than SU-27s or MiG-29s, but these latter planes would also be highly conspicuous to any witness. In contrast, the one (or, possibly two) SU-25s tasked with the destruction of MH-17 would be easy to conceal in the eastern Ukraine and on any airfield. It is precisely because the SU-25 would be an unlikely aircraft to be given such a mission that it is the perfect aircraft to execute what is a textbook example of a false flag attack.

As for the Buk, it is such a big and conspicuous missile system that it is impossible to hide. Furthermore, had such a missile been fired broad daylight, the launch would have been clearly seen for many miles around. However, as long as the Buk battery was merely guiding the SU-25 towards MH-17 nobody would have noticed it. Nobody except Russia, NATO and the US, of course.

As somebody who has personally monitored military and civilian air traffic over Europe, I can attest to the fact that several militaries in Europe are constantly monitoring the entire airspace between the Atlantic and the Urals. These militaries include the US and NATO. This is especially true for a battle zone. In fact, US and Russian AWACS aircraft are always present when a conflict occurs anywhere near Europe. They have been monitoring the war in the Persian Gulf, the war in Bosnia and Croatia, the war in Afghanistan and many other conflicts. Besides their AWACS, the Americans and Russians also use their space based satellites to monitor any conflict zone. Of course, neither side is willing to share all the detailed information it has, but the real problem here is political: the US won’t share anything at all because of the need to protect the regime in Kiev while anything the Russians would share will be immediately dismissed as “propaganda” (which is exactly what happened with the little the Russians did share).

I would add here that if had been the Novorussians who had shot down MH-17 the US could easily have proven it just as they had done with KAL-007 in 1983. In fact, in the 30 years which separate us from the shooting down of KAL-007 US intelligence capabilities have considerably improved, so I would expect the US could provide much more data than just radio intercepts. And yet the US has provided exactly nothing. There is only one logical explanation for the otherwise bizarre US refusal to provide any data at all: the US data points to the “wrong” party. In other words, the fact that the US has not released any data at all by itself indirectly proves that the Ukrainians did it.

As for the Ukrainians themselves they, of course, know exactly what happened and there is no need for them to “investigate” anything. So there is really nothing left to investigate. The Ukrainians did it and the West will never admit it.

End of story.

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Re: Official Unbiased Ukraine Situation Thread [Re: trekie]
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Re: Official Unbiased Ukraine Situation Thread [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #22141251 -

We Investigated Claims of Russian Involvement in the Seizure of a Ukranian Town




My friend has relatives in Russia and the relative was full Russian and a member of the general opposition. He said the people are getting angrier at Putin but that Russia will have to overthrow his regime because Putin has played himself against the wall.- He cant undo what he's done. One of the tipping points should occur when Russian brainwashed general populous realizes Russian army is organizing the selfproclaimed Russian pupper regimes. Also people are angry at the food destruction and business owners are horrified and mad at Putin because how he has destroyed relations with the West and Europe.


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Re: Official Unbiased Ukraine Situation Thread [Re: Bridgeburner]
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Re: Official Unbiased Ukraine Situation Thread [Re: Bridgeburner]
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Re: Official Unbiased Ukraine Situation Thread [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #22168082 -

Riot policeman killed, several wounded in grenade attack outside nation’s parliament
https://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/riot-police-severely-wounded-in-grenade-attack-outside-nations-parliament-396869.html


1 dead, more than 100 injured in Kiev as police clash with protesters
http://mashable.com/2015/08/31/kiev-ukraine-parliament-explosion-clashes/#:eyJzIjoiZiIsImkiOiJfZWpld2Y2bWx0a3N3NzZzY2Vrc3o0ZV8ifQ





The violence broke out shortly after parliament passed a controversial bill on decentralizing power in Ukraine. Opponents of the bill says it capitulates to Russian demands that Ukraine adopt a federalized system of government.

As news spread that MPs had voted to approve the first stage of the bill’s passage through Parliament, nationalist protesters, some masked, pushed at police lines, beating officers with sticks and snatching riot shields from them. A smoke bomb was then thrown at the side of parliament.

Riot police were then moved forward in force to form a cordon about five officers thick around the parliament. Protesters continued to attack them. Live broadcasts from the scene showed police using tear gas on the crowd, and protesters apparently hurling the gas canisters back at police.

Then the grenade was thrown.


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Re: Official Unbiased Ukraine Situation Thread [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #22215067 -

Supporting a War that isn't: Russian Public Opinion and the Ukraine Conflict
http://carnegie.ru/eurasiaoutlook/?fa=61236


The strength of Russian propaganda rests on certain intrinsic core factors: a mistrust for the West that began to grow in the second half of the 1990s, the passive consumption of television content by the majority of the population, and a nostalgia for lost superpower status. Russians possessed these traits long before the onset of the Ukraine crisis. All the Russian authorities had to do was to identify them and exploit them--and they did so without thinking twice.










What spawned Russia's 'troll army'? Experts on the red web answer your questions
http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/sep/08/russia-troll-army-red-web-any-questions

In short, the goal is to promote Putin’s personal image among western audiences already critical of the US government and its allies.






Putin’s Gamble: An End to NATO and Restoration of Russian Might
http://www.newsweek.com/putins-gamble-end-nato-and-restoration-russian-might-368883
Internally, the strategy feeds nationalism, familiarity and orientation to the disempowered Russian people, offers the prospect for greater profit to the powerful rich and promises purpose, identity and resources to the power ministries...Externally, the strategy relies on the use of all elements of power—including military—to discredit, devalue and delegitimize the current European security system.


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Re: Official Unbiased Ukraine Situation Thread [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #22322899 -

Putin in Syria Is Just Like Putin in Ukraine
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-10-01/putin-in-syria-is-just-like-putin-in-ukraine




U.S., allies demand Russia halt Syria strikes outside IS areas
http://reuters.com/article/2015/10/02/us-mideast-crisis-syria-airstrikes-idUSKCN0RW0W220151002



The Christian zeal behind Russia’s war in Syria
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/10/01/the-christian-zeal-behind-russias-war-in-syria/
Putin has anchored his political brand in religious nationalism, centered on the Russian Orthodox Church, which has emerged as a major pillar in the Russian nation-state after decades of Soviet suppression. It's a key agent in spreading Putin-friendly patriotic propaganda, from anti-gay proselytizing to backing a more muscular Russian foreign policy.




'Cold as Ice': Canada’s Election, as Told Through Russian Propaganda | VICE News
https://news.vice.com/article/cold-as-ice-canadas-election-as-told-through-russian-propaganda


Putin TV: Russian Airstrikes Are ‘Sacred’
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/30/putin-tv-russian-airstrikes-are-sacred.html
The transformation from skeptic to cheerleader is tough to complete but RT has successfully pulled it off in a matter of weeks. Bombs away!


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Re: Official Unbiased Ukraine Situation Thread [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #22348922 -

"If Nazi propaganda is wrong, why is chauvinistic Russian propaganda fine?"

Meet the Colonel in Charge of Countering Russian Propaganda
https://news.vice.com/article/meet-the-colonel-in-charge-of-countering-russian-propaganda-in-lithuania?utm_source=vicenewsfb



"Russia is making a very serious situation in Syria much more dangerous."
NATO Is Getting Ready to Defend Turkey From Russia
https://news.vice.com/article/nato-is-getting-ready-to-defend-turkey-from-russia?utm_source=vicenewsfb



During a four-day simulation exercise – which included wounds made of plastic, glue, and fake crimson blood – we saw what could happen if Russia invaded Lithuania...
Lithuania Thinks the Russians Are Coming — and It's Preparing with Wargames
https://news.vice.com/article/lithuania-thinks-the-russians-are-coming-and-its-preparing-with-wargames?utm_source=vicenewsfb





Romania Is Starting to Freak Out About Russian Designs on Transnistria
https://news.vice.com/article/romania-is-starting-to-freak-out-about-russian-designs-on-transnistria?utm_source=vicenewsfb


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Edited by Bridgeburner (10/08/15 07:25 AM)

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Re: Official Unbiased Ukraine Situation Thread [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #22438814 -

Sweden's Defense Minister says his country is considering joining a Nato center for strategic communication in order to combat Russian social media campaigns and false information concerning the Ukraine conflict.
http://www.thelocal.se/20151026/sweden-eyeing-nato-help-in-propaganda-wars




Comical, But Sad: The Russian Foreign Ministry continues to use fictional materials (including photos of comedians) to propagandize in favor of its foreign forays.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/21/europe/kal-penn-russia-ambassador-tweet/?iid=ob_homepage_showcase_pool&iref=obinsite




Even Russian moms cannot escape the Kremlin's endless crackdown on the free flow of information concerning the situation in Ukraine.
http://www.rferl.org/…/mom-faces-years-in-pri…/27316728.html





Russian human rights activist Nadezhda Kutepova says that state TV channel Rossia 1 broadcast reports falsely accusing her of “industrial espionage. The reports followed her fight to protect the health of the residents of a town in the Chelyabinsk region, where a nuclear accident occurred decades ago.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/20/russia-activist-flee-nuclear-tv-witch-hunt





Russia retreats to autarky as poverty looms
Inozemtsev: Russia is headed "towards a quasi-Soviet economy detached from the world and, at the same time, proud of its autarky; towards a deteriorating economy which compensates for the drop in living standards with pervasive propaganda."





The Myth­ of Putin’s Strategic Genius
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/23/opinion/the-myth-of-putins-strategic-genius.html?_r=1





A Taliban-Russia team-up against ISIS?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/26/a-taliban-russia-team-up-against-isis.html?via=desktop&source=twitter


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Re: Official Unbiased Ukraine Situation Thread [Re: Bridgeburner]
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Re: Official Unbiased Ukraine Situation Thread [Re: Bridgeburner]
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Re: Official Unbiased Ukraine Situation Thread [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #22581366 -

The Priest, the Pianist, a Cat, and a DIY Sauna: One Week in Ukraine’s Forgotten War
By Jack Losh

November 27, 2015 | 2:50 pm


https://news.vice.com/article/the-priest-the-pianist-a-cat-and-a-diy-sauna-one-week-in-ukraines-forgotten-war


For seven days, VICE News embedded with the men of 2nd Platoon, a close-knit and eclectic mix of conscripts, career soldiers, nationalistic volunteers, Soviet Army veterans, ex-cons, and a chaplain. They hold the line on the outskirts of Pisky, a once-affluent neighborhood on the northern outskirts of Donetsk, now dealt near-total destruction by the relentless pounding of artillery.

Undersupplied and living in squalor, the soldiers are fighting a forgotten war. They feel neglected by their own country and the West, and hold the purported ceasefire in contempt. Now they're hungry for a new push. As fighting flared along the 280-mile eastern front, the platoon's warren of muddy trenches offered a ringside view of Europe's latest conflagration and provided powerful evidence that Ukraine's tentative peace is, yet again, on the brink of collapse.


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Re: Official Unbiased Ukraine Situation Thread [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #22817416 -

So I was banned from the pub for a while.
Nothing too significant happen since your last post Bridgeburner?


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Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...

At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.

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Re: Official Unbiased Ukraine Situation Thread [Re: Acaterpillar]
    #22819786 -

Basically the insurgent "republics" of Kreml's sattellite warlords have a "ceasefire" with Ukraine. It is a frozen conflict now. Putin seems to have betrayed the "people's republics" as the Russian people expected Russia to expand even further. Now Crimea has turned into a monetary drain on Russia. Ukraine is basically trying to survive too, although it is crippled by rampant corruption. Everything has turned to shit as Putins nationalistic efforts have hit both the aggressor and the victim hard. There is speculation Putin will dump the mess to the next "president" and retire as a "strong president who made Russia great again". Right now people are focused on Syria again where Russia is trying to keep the dictator in power. Russias propaganda is as rabid as ever.


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