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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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grain poll
    #2201010 -

grain still causes me grief - i've tried several brands of birdseed from petshops and garden centres, and several ways of preparing it: still i wear my fingers to the bone each time i prepare jars, as it often appears too wet or too dry.

in the UK we don't have the big-name brands available in -marts in 20kg bags, just small packs from local companies (or can any UK growers perhaps recommend me a great brand available in a chainstore that works every time?). so what do you guys all do?

i want to give this poll a few days in the cultivation forum before moving it, if someone insists, to the poll forum. merry xmas shroomerites  :tongue:
do you use grains?
You may choose only one
how do you prepare them?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from 12/25/03 02:25 PM until the end of time

View the results of this poll | Filter by response



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buh

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Re: grain poll [Re: shirley knott]
    #2201242 -

The key is to have the outside of the grain very dry, with all the moisture on the inside. It doesn't matter if it's rye, birdseed, or popcorn. Try a 24-48 hour soak in water at room temperature to germinate any bacterial endospores, followed by a 10-20 minute boil. This should hydrate any grain except popcorn, which usually likes to boil for an hour. The size of the kernals tells when it's ready. Drain into a collander and allow to drain for a few minutes. Now, this is important; As the steaming hot grain sits in the collander, shake it up and around so the steam evaporates off the kernals. It will only take a few minutes of this, and the kernals will be bone dry on the outside. Load jars and PC for the regular amount of time. For rye or popcorn, I use 2 hours, 20 minutes. This seems to work everytime.


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Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Re: grain poll [Re: shirley knott]
    #2201267 -

the first time i tried grains i used a generic brand 'budgie mix'.....bacterial contams in every jar.
second time around i used WBS from the same generic company...100% success.
i used the 24 hour soak method both times and pc'd for 1 hour.
as starter said to me at the time 'it's just a case of finding a grain mix that works for you'.

good luck and i'm sure you'll have it figured out soon.


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Coaster is an idiot...
[quote]Coaster said:
but i thnk everything thats pure is white?
[/quote]



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Re: grain poll [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #2201268 -

Nice, Roger Rabbit, nice seeing you here, read your straw log tek on nansnook just a bit ago. Nice job bud. If you ever have time you should make a really nice pictoral faq for here. I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate it.

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Re: grain poll [Re: shirley knott]
    #2201321 -

how do your fingers get worn to the bone?

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Re: grain poll [Re: Fcuerkt]
    #2201379 -

I stopped using it because its just a PITA.  It colonizes slower and results in more contams and a wider variety of contams for me.  IMO its way easier and for the most part, cheaper, to use regular LGBR, not ground or anything, just cooked with 3/4 of the regular water reccomended and then PC for like 40 mins at 15 psi. I've never had one of those jars contam on me.....why fix it if its not broke :smile:  Merry X-mas.
-matty


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"If I don't see ya before the end of this one, I'll meet ya in the next one and don't be late" - Jimi Hendrix

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Re: grain poll [Re: shirley knott]
    #2201416 -

I luckily live near a bulk pet food store. I buy 50 pound bags of pure white millet for $10.

I'll rinse, soak, rinse, soak, rinse over a period of a good 12 hours, then pc them after they have drip dried for about 20 minutes. I rarely get contamination!

I think rinsing is very important with birdseed/millet.

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Re: grain poll [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #2201806 -

thanks all, especially roger for the insights  :thumbup:
oh, and *bump* to the top again  :laugh:

here's some birdseed i prepared on christmas day - draining after a 30 minute simmer





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Re: grain poll [Re: shirley knott]
    #2201983 -

I mainly use millet from "pets at home" or any of those large
pet stores you get all over the U.K, comes in 1, 2, 5, and 15 kilo bags.
sold as budgie food. Very cheap, very uniform, I find
if you stick to the same brand, you get to know its abilities over
time, which makes things easyer.


--------------------
er

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Re: grain poll [Re: shirley knott]
    #2202134 -

three words - Hawks Magic Formula

its the shit, fruit em as double end cased cakes in a PMP.
huge fruits with ease.


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"To know life you must fuck it in the liver." -Dr. Frankenstein, Andy Warhols Frankenstein

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Re: grain poll [Re: shirley knott]
    #2202195 -

Finch seed(WBS)
:smile:
never had a problem and I got 100% success on my first try, soaked, risned , drained , loaded , PCed  , BINGO :smile:

(keep in mind I am NEW to WBS and finch seed worked great my first time, second time should be in  a cople of days)


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Re: grain poll [Re: shirley knott]
    #2202260 -

Here's some millet prepared today.

12 hour soak.

I dont like to cook my seed !!


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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: shirley knott]
    #2202403 -



--------------------
So hard to be ....WDWGFH?
Texas is humongus compared to France
Our Gair, who art in Texas,
Paw Paw be thy Name....
My friends are thirsty


You never see a motorcycle parked outside a Psychiatrist office:biker:

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Re: grain poll [Re: OldSpice]
    #2202440 -

yes, and was that with or without a simmer? the poll is on about 50% for soak / soak 'n' simmer.....

/sigh

it's not that interesting, is it? and when i drain the fucking stuff, in a sieve, it never drains properly. you can always still see water near the bottom of the sieve, even after hours in there. that bastard sieve.

/grumble

this thread sucks, i hate it. damn christmas  :mad: thanks for trying to feign interest. the only interesting thing to come out of it was how many different ways there are to prep grain (yawn)


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buh

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Re: grain poll [Re: shirley knott]
    #2202490 -

This has worked for popcorn, wild bird seed and cracked corn...

Soak grains overnight (24 hours) in water. After this is done, boil the grain gently for approximatly one hour, more if you feel like it. Drain the grains and spray with hot water to rinse off any growing bacteria and "Grain slime". Load into jars, PC. Enjoy.


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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

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Re: grain poll [Re: shirley knott]
    #2203527 -

shirley knott said:
in the UK we don't have the big-name brands available in -marts in 20kg bags, just small packs from local companies (or can any UK growers perhaps recommend me a great brand available in a chainstore that works every time?). so what do you guys all do?


Screw big name brands.. buy it straight from the farmer! Me and a few others use millet from http://www.soarmillseeds.co.uk
At ?13.75 (including P&P) for 25 kilos of near enough organic grain you can't go wrong :smile: Mycelium loves it aswell..

I always use the foolproof tek for preparation and it never fails.. just have to do a few test jars to start with to find the best water levels to use for the grain you have.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=644625&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

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Re: grain poll [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #2208984 -

RogerRabbit said:
Load jars and PC for the regular amount of time. For rye or popcorn, I use 2 hours, 20 minutes. This seems to work everytime.


after 90 mins in the PC my water is all evaporated. if I were to pc it for another hour without the water in the PC wont that be a bad thing? do you add more water in the PC to acount for the loss of water?

thanks

zerohero

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Re: grain poll [Re: ]
    #2209168 -


zero
doing popcorn as we speak. i usually let the popcorn soak for 24 - 48 hours, simmer for about 1 hour,strain for about a half hour and then pc for 70 - 90 minutes.soaking the popcorn for 24 hours plus helps since it has such a hard exterior. I also soak WBS 24 hours and simmer for about a half hour, then pc for 60 minutes.

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Re: grain poll [Re: shirley knott]
    #2209537 -

shirley knott said:
grain still causes me grief - in the UK we don't have the big-name brands available in -marts in 20kg bags, so what do you guys all do?



Shirley, check in the health food stores and bulk food stores if they are available in UK to find alternatives to bidseed, any grain will work.

My method comes from quite a bit of research, not my own as I'm to lazy, regardless of the grain I use I soak, simmer and soak a little more, drain and PC. Some of the endospores wont greminate until they reach 180F/83C. with dense grains liike popcorn I boil it for an hour or 2 and allwo the grans to split open

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Re: grain poll [Re: shirley knott]
    #28456337 -

Disclaimer: I'm newer; but, I'm pretty well researched and I went from hating WBS to liking it

Here's the keys of doing well with WBS:
  • If you have the right items, this will be SO MUCH EASIER for you to handle. Recommended items below.
  • If you use WBS, you 100% have to rinse it. I'm sorry; but, it's unavoidable IMO. It's starchy and it'll dirty the jars
  • Soak or Not to Soak? It's up to you!  YoshiTrainer has a "No Pre-Soak" method that works!...But you will have clumps to do battle with; however, you can win the war on these clumps if you shake enough.
  • I recommended that Yoshi make some modifications to his original post (read it here: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28052502/fpart/9/vc/1) because I had some fails while trying this method. If I would've read it the way I typed it, it would've saved me some trouble.


The original YoshiTrainer tek is seen here; but, make sure to read my post first if you decide to try this out: YoshiTrainer: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28052502/fpart/all

What you need to make things easier - Anything linked, I own and use.


The Least Amount of Work WBS Tek (NO SOAKING - MOST LIKELY TO CLUMP):
  • Like Yoshi said in his thread, measure your jar and the dry grains together and write this number down. However many mL of water you need to add will be added to this number later on.  Example: Yoshi calls for 1.333 Cups of WBS and 165mL of water for a quart.  My Ball Wide-Mouth Quart Jar (no lid, no ring) + 1.333 cups of dried WBS weighed 702.2g. Yoshi calls to add 165mL of water to this later on, so 702.2 + 165.0 = 867.2g, which is going to be the our target weight later on.
  • I have one of those non-fixed, hosed faucet heads so this is easy for me to do; but, put the 5 gallon bucket in the sink, add the seed, fill the water directly into the bucket while continually stirring it with your hand. Fill the bucket up most the wayl; just whatever is comfortable for you to control.
  • Dump the water through the strainer.
  • The sunflower seeds will mostly be dumped out but everything else will be still in the bucket. You can decide here whether or not you want to remove the sunflower seeds. Yoshi likes to KEEP them, because in his experience, he says the sunflower seeds help battle the clumps!  I haven't tried out this nugget of info yet. My last attempt I strained them.
  • Repeat the process again. Stir continuously. The water will dirty again... Dump it!
  • Repeat a 3rd time, and maybe a 4th if you really want clean grains.
  • Now, the grains are wet, and are heavier... Just fill 1.333cups of this wet grain into the jar, and you'll see it's heavier... Now fill water to hit that 867.2g target weight and you don't have to be exact. NOTE: The grain will expand when getting PC'd
  • Pressure cook!
  • I don't know if shaking cooler vs. shaking at a warmer temperature is best, yet.  In my experience, you want to shake when warmer.
  • NOTE: There is a pretty decent amount of shaking involved to get these clumps out. Have a tennis ball handy so you can really hit it hard without breaking anything. I haven't yet experimented with less water yet; but, I also re-used some already hydrated grain on my last attempt, which I've learned is a big "NONO"


Result: I had a "puck" at the bottom of mine (it's seen at the top in the pic).
I just really had to shake it out and use that tennis ball for about 5 minutes.


Doing 7-10 of jars like these would be kinda tiresome IMO, which is why I prefer the second method. I haven't adjusted the water amount of Yoshi's yet.

The No Shake Method; but, takes more time and work but not too bad still (SOAKING REQUIRED - NO CLUMPS):
  • Wash your grain using the method I described above, where you continually mix with your hand. If you want to strain your sunflower seeds out using a hand strainer or by dumping, go for it. Repeat 3 more times after this, and now the water should be clean!
  • Use a 1:1 ratio of water to grain in your bucket. It doesn't need to be exact; but, be on the side of "more water"
  • Soak for 12-18 hours
  • Dump into your sink strainer, and your grains will be a lot puffier
  • Pour it out on cookie to dry. Put them under a fan on full blast. Mix them every few hours to make sure there isn't a layer hiding and not getting dried. You can use your strainers here in lieu of cookie sheets by hanging them over the buckets or kitchen bowls. The mesh allows for air flow to come through, and they dry a ton quicker.
  • Once it passes the paper towel test, load a myco-quart or whatever into the jar and pressure cook. The paper towel test is basically just getting a handful, putting it on a paper towel, and pouring it off... If there's virtually nothing left behind on the paper towel, it's dry enough. Honestly, you'll know it when you feel it!


No picture; but, it was damn near perfect.

Some have said that sunflower seeds harbor contamination; but, Yoshi doesn't think so. The second method is better if you don't want sunflower seeds in yours, because Yoshi says those sunflower seeds help break up the clumps.

Follow Bod's pressure cook method. Vent the steam for at least 10 mins before putting the weight on. You want the air out, and maximum steam in that PC.

I hope this helps.
If not, I've wasted my time.

If you want to try a slower yet easier grain, I'd give popcorn a shot. Yoshi has a method for that; but, I've only tried the method where you cook the popcorn grains before hand to hydrate them, then sterilizing them later after they dry.

Edited by stakesalad (09/02/23 07:04 PM)

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