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shirley knott
not my real name

Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 9,105
Loc: London
Last seen: 7 years, 27 days
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grain poll
#2201010 - 12/25/03 02:28 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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grain still causes me grief - i've tried several brands of birdseed from petshops and garden centres, and several ways of preparing it: still i wear my fingers to the bone each time i prepare jars, as it often appears too wet or too dry.
in the UK we don't have the big-name brands available in -marts in 20kg bags, just small packs from local companies (or can any UK growers perhaps recommend me a great brand available in a chainstore that works every time?). so what do you guys all do?
i want to give this poll a few days in the cultivation forum before moving it, if someone insists, to the poll forum. merry xmas shroomerites
-------------------- buh
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 2 days
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The key is to have the outside of the grain very dry, with all the moisture on the inside. It doesn't matter if it's rye, birdseed, or popcorn. Try a 24-48 hour soak in water at room temperature to germinate any bacterial endospores, followed by a 10-20 minute boil. This should hydrate any grain except popcorn, which usually likes to boil for an hour. The size of the kernals tells when it's ready. Drain into a collander and allow to drain for a few minutes. Now, this is important; As the steaming hot grain sits in the collander, shake it up and around so the steam evaporates off the kernals. It will only take a few minutes of this, and the kernals will be bone dry on the outside. Load jars and PC for the regular amount of time. For rye or popcorn, I use 2 hours, 20 minutes. This seems to work everytime.
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Hanky
wiffle bat.

Registered: 08/30/03
Posts: 56,993
Loc: Great Southern Land.
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the first time i tried grains i used a generic brand 'budgie mix'.....bacterial contams in every jar. second time around i used WBS from the same generic company...100% success. i used the 24 hour soak method both times and pc'd for 1 hour. as starter said to me at the time 'it's just a case of finding a grain mix that works for you'.
good luck and i'm sure you'll have it figured out soon.
-------------------- Coaster is an idiot... [quote]Coaster said: but i thnk everything thats pure is white? [/quote]
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Segabo
journeyman

Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 76
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Nice, Roger Rabbit, nice seeing you here, read your straw log tek on nansnook just a bit ago. Nice job bud. If you ever have time you should make a really nice pictoral faq for here. I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate it.
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Fcuerkt
insane visionary

Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 371
Loc: the center of a xenon ato...
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
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how do your fingers get worn to the bone?
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forevrgrounded98
Stranger

Registered: 10/25/03
Posts: 283
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Re: grain poll [Re: Fcuerkt]
#2201379 - 12/25/03 09:54 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I stopped using it because its just a PITA. It colonizes slower and results in more contams and a wider variety of contams for me. IMO its way easier and for the most part, cheaper, to use regular LGBR, not ground or anything, just cooked with 3/4 of the regular water reccomended and then PC for like 40 mins at 15 psi. I've never had one of those jars contam on me.....why fix it if its not broke Merry X-mas. -matty
-------------------- "If I don't see ya before the end of this one, I'll meet ya in the next one and don't be late" - Jimi Hendrix
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angryshroom
Stranger


Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 7,264
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I luckily live near a bulk pet food store. I buy 50 pound bags of pure white millet for $10.
I'll rinse, soak, rinse, soak, rinse over a period of a good 12 hours, then pc them after they have drip dried for about 20 minutes. I rarely get contamination!
I think rinsing is very important with birdseed/millet.
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shirley knott
not my real name

Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 9,105
Loc: London
Last seen: 7 years, 27 days
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thanks all, especially roger for the insights oh, and *bump* to the top again here's some birdseed i prepared on christmas day - draining after a 30 minute simmer
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G a n j a
Pictish and proud


Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 7,860
Loc: Zone ate
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I mainly use millet from "pets at home" or any of those large pet stores you get all over the U.K, comes in 1, 2, 5, and 15 kilo bags. sold as budgie food. Very cheap, very uniform, I find if you stick to the same brand, you get to know its abilities over time, which makes things easyer.
-------------------- er
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Fick_Duck
Truffle Shuffle


Registered: 10/18/02
Posts: 247
Loc: The Hamburger Train
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three words - Hawks Magic Formula
its the shit, fruit em as double end cased cakes in a PMP. huge fruits with ease.
-------------------- "To know life you must fuck it in the liver." -Dr. Frankenstein, Andy Warhols Frankenstein
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Psilocybeingzz


Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 14,463
Loc: International waters
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Finch seed(WBS)
 never had a problem and I got 100% success on my first try, soaked, risned , drained , loaded , PCed , BINGO 
(keep in mind I am NEW to WBS and finch seed worked great my first time, second time should be in a cople of days)
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angryshroom
Stranger


Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 7,264
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Here's some millet prepared today.
12 hour soak.
I dont like to cook my seed !!
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OldSpice
Geritol Breath...


Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 59,080
Loc: Crankytown, Texas
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-------------------- So hard to be ....WDWGFH? Texas is humongus compared to France Our Gair, who art in Texas, Paw Paw be thy Name.... My friends are thirsty
You never see a motorcycle parked outside a Psychiatrist office
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shirley knott
not my real name

Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 9,105
Loc: London
Last seen: 7 years, 27 days
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Re: grain poll [Re: OldSpice]
#2202440 - 12/26/03 04:01 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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yes, and was that with or without a simmer? the poll is on about 50% for soak / soak 'n' simmer.....
/sigh
it's not that interesting, is it? and when i drain the fucking stuff, in a sieve, it never drains properly. you can always still see water near the bottom of the sieve, even after hours in there. that bastard sieve.
/grumble
this thread sucks, i hate it. damn christmas thanks for trying to feign interest. the only interesting thing to come out of it was how many different ways there are to prep grain (yawn)
-------------------- buh
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enimatpyrt
addict
Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 498
Last seen: 20 years, 28 days
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This has worked for popcorn, wild bird seed and cracked corn...
Soak grains overnight (24 hours) in water. After this is done, boil the grain gently for approximatly one hour, more if you feel like it. Drain the grains and spray with hot water to rinse off any growing bacteria and "Grain slime". Load into jars, PC. Enjoy.
-------------------- The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.
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Sorted
Monkee
Registered: 12/26/98
Posts: 301
Loc: UK
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Quote:
shirley knott said: in the UK we don't have the big-name brands available in -marts in 20kg bags, just small packs from local companies (or can any UK growers perhaps recommend me a great brand available in a chainstore that works every time?). so what do you guys all do?
Screw big name brands.. buy it straight from the farmer! Me and a few others use millet from http://www.soarmillseeds.co.uk At ?13.75 (including P&P) for 25 kilos of near enough organic grain you can't go wrong Mycelium loves it aswell..
I always use the foolproof tek for preparation and it never fails.. just have to do a few test jars to start with to find the best water levels to use for the grain you have.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=644625&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
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Anonymous
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Load jars and PC for the regular amount of time. For rye or popcorn, I use 2 hours, 20 minutes. This seems to work everytime.
after 90 mins in the PC my water is all evaporated. if I were to pc it for another hour without the water in the PC wont that be a bad thing? do you add more water in the PC to acount for the loss of water?
thanks
zerohero
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DSD
devil

Registered: 11/30/02
Posts: 1,263
Loc: Bad,Bad person - minus ...
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: grain poll [Re: ]
#2209168 - 12/30/03 03:04 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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zero doing popcorn as we speak. i usually let the popcorn soak for 24 - 48 hours, simmer for about 1 hour,strain for about a half hour and then pc for 70 - 90 minutes.soaking the popcorn for 24 hours plus helps since it has such a hard exterior. I also soak WBS 24 hours and simmer for about a half hour, then pc for 60 minutes.
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Granola
bag lady

Registered: 05/18/03
Posts: 411
Loc: 50.0N-6.0E
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
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Quote:
shirley knott said: grain still causes me grief - in the UK we don't have the big-name brands available in -marts in 20kg bags, so what do you guys all do?
Shirley, check in the health food stores and bulk food stores if they are available in UK to find alternatives to bidseed, any grain will work.
My method comes from quite a bit of research, not my own as I'm to lazy, regardless of the grain I use I soak, simmer and soak a little more, drain and PC. Some of the endospores wont greminate until they reach 180F/83C. with dense grains liike popcorn I boil it for an hour or 2 and allwo the grans to split open
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stakesalad
Stranger
Registered: 08/09/23
Posts: 34
Last seen: 26 days, 13 hours
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Disclaimer: I'm newer; but, I'm pretty well researched and I went from hating WBS to liking it
Here's the keys of doing well with WBS:
- If you have the right items, this will be SO MUCH EASIER for you to handle. Recommended items below.
- If you use WBS, you 100% have to rinse it. I'm sorry; but, it's unavoidable IMO. It's starchy and it'll dirty the jars
- Soak or Not to Soak? It's up to you! YoshiTrainer has a "No Pre-Soak" method that works!...But you will have clumps to do battle with; however, you can win the war on these clumps if you shake enough.
- I recommended that Yoshi make some modifications to his original post (read it here: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28052502/fpart/9/vc/1) because I had some fails while trying this method. If I would've read it the way I typed it, it would've saved me some trouble.
The original YoshiTrainer tek is seen here; but, make sure to read my post first if you decide to try this out: YoshiTrainer: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28052502/fpart/all
What you need to make things easier - Anything linked, I own and use.
The Least Amount of Work WBS Tek (NO SOAKING - MOST LIKELY TO CLUMP):
- Like Yoshi said in his thread, measure your jar and the dry grains together and write this number down. However many mL of water you need to add will be added to this number later on. Example: Yoshi calls for 1.333 Cups of WBS and 165mL of water for a quart. My Ball Wide-Mouth Quart Jar (no lid, no ring) + 1.333 cups of dried WBS weighed 702.2g. Yoshi calls to add 165mL of water to this later on, so 702.2 + 165.0 = 867.2g, which is going to be the our target weight later on.
- I have one of those non-fixed, hosed faucet heads so this is easy for me to do; but, put the 5 gallon bucket in the sink, add the seed, fill the water directly into the bucket while continually stirring it with your hand. Fill the bucket up most the wayl; just whatever is comfortable for you to control.
- Dump the water through the strainer.
- The sunflower seeds will mostly be dumped out but everything else will be still in the bucket. You can decide here whether or not you want to remove the sunflower seeds. Yoshi likes to KEEP them, because in his experience, he says the sunflower seeds help battle the clumps! I haven't tried out this nugget of info yet. My last attempt I strained them.
- Repeat the process again. Stir continuously. The water will dirty again... Dump it!
- Repeat a 3rd time, and maybe a 4th if you really want clean grains.
- Now, the grains are wet, and are heavier... Just fill 1.333cups of this wet grain into the jar, and you'll see it's heavier... Now fill water to hit that 867.2g target weight and you don't have to be exact. NOTE: The grain will expand when getting PC'd
- Pressure cook!
- I don't know if shaking cooler vs. shaking at a warmer temperature is best, yet. In my experience, you want to shake when warmer.
- NOTE: There is a pretty decent amount of shaking involved to get these clumps out. Have a tennis ball handy so you can really hit it hard without breaking anything. I haven't yet experimented with less water yet; but, I also re-used some already hydrated grain on my last attempt, which I've learned is a big "NONO"
Result: I had a "puck" at the bottom of mine (it's seen at the top in the pic). I just really had to shake it out and use that tennis ball for about 5 minutes.

Doing 7-10 of jars like these would be kinda tiresome IMO, which is why I prefer the second method. I haven't adjusted the water amount of Yoshi's yet.
The No Shake Method; but, takes more time and work but not too bad still (SOAKING REQUIRED - NO CLUMPS):
- Wash your grain using the method I described above, where you continually mix with your hand. If you want to strain your sunflower seeds out using a hand strainer or by dumping, go for it. Repeat 3 more times after this, and now the water should be clean!
- Use a 1:1 ratio of water to grain in your bucket. It doesn't need to be exact; but, be on the side of "more water"
- Soak for 12-18 hours
- Dump into your sink strainer, and your grains will be a lot puffier
- Pour it out on cookie to dry. Put them under a fan on full blast. Mix them every few hours to make sure there isn't a layer hiding and not getting dried. You can use your strainers here in lieu of cookie sheets by hanging them over the buckets or kitchen bowls. The mesh allows for air flow to come through, and they dry a ton quicker.
- Once it passes the paper towel test, load a myco-quart or whatever into the jar and pressure cook. The paper towel test is basically just getting a handful, putting it on a paper towel, and pouring it off... If there's virtually nothing left behind on the paper towel, it's dry enough. Honestly, you'll know it when you feel it!
No picture; but, it was damn near perfect.
Some have said that sunflower seeds harbor contamination; but, Yoshi doesn't think so. The second method is better if you don't want sunflower seeds in yours, because Yoshi says those sunflower seeds help break up the clumps.
Follow Bod's pressure cook method. Vent the steam for at least 10 mins before putting the weight on. You want the air out, and maximum steam in that PC.
I hope this helps. If not, I've wasted my time.
If you want to try a slower yet easier grain, I'd give popcorn a shot. Yoshi has a method for that; but, I've only tried the method where you cook the popcorn grains before hand to hydrate them, then sterilizing them later after they dry.
Edited by stakesalad (09/02/23 07:04 PM)
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Pnin
Riz Gukgak


Registered: 07/18/23
Posts: 395
Last seen: 8 hours, 39 minutes
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Sometimes you necro the oldest post you can find.
-------------------- 🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿 >my end of 2023 grow journal<
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stakesalad
Stranger
Registered: 08/09/23
Posts: 34
Last seen: 26 days, 13 hours
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Re: grain poll [Re: Pnin]
#28456359 - 09/02/23 07:06 PM (4 months, 23 days ago) |
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Well that's fucking embarrassing.
I'm used to much newer version of vBulletin. I don't know what the fuck this Shroomery shit runs on; but, it's a cluster sometimes.
I have no idea how this thread popped up on me 🤣 - EDIT: The "similar threads" feature at the bottom. Feature...
Edited by stakesalad (09/02/23 07:07 PM)
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oldBMXboy
Stranger


Registered: 03/17/23
Posts: 14
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
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I'm the outlier. I use "Popcorn No-PC Tek", works like a champ. Pressure cookers aren't necessary with clean grain, if you can maintain presence of mind during pasteurization and inoculation, we're not performing heart transplants.
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veggie

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,501
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Quote:
I use "Popcorn No-PC Tek", works like a champ.
Grain needs to be properly sterilized in a pressure cooker, especially a large, hard grain like popcorn.
oldBMXboy, the last time you mentioned the "Popcorn No-PC Tek" is when you created a bacteria contaminated substrate from using it. So please don't recommend it to others.
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oldBMXboy
Stranger


Registered: 03/17/23
Posts: 14
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
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Re: grain poll [Re: veggie]
#28457423 - 09/03/23 04:47 PM (4 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
veggie said:
Quote:
I use "Popcorn No-PC Tek", works like a champ.
Grain needs to be properly sterilized in a pressure cooker, especially a large, hard grain like popcorn.
oldBMXboy, the last time you mentioned the "Popcorn No-PC Tek" is when you created a bacteria contaminated substrate from using it. So please don't recommend it to others.
I've had one jar in 12 go bacterial, that ratio can happen to any noob with a pc too. I can recommend any commonly used tech, only commie bitches have a problem with free speech.
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WyoMX

Registered: 07/06/15
Posts: 2,100
Loc: PNW
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You are free to recommend any commonly used tek but I'd venture to say you're the one single person on this board using that tek so that doesn't sound commonly used to me. I'd be interested in seeing these jars you think are clean. Nobody on these boards will agree you don't need to pc. Unless you used atmospheric sterilization but people who use that do very very large amounts of grain at a time and run it for 24hrs. Not 2 like you mentioned in a previous thread.
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Kinoko314
Stranger Danger



Registered: 12/16/22
Posts: 1,521
Loc: Colorado
Last seen: 13 days, 11 hours
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Re: grain poll [Re: WyoMX] 1
#28457536 - 09/03/23 06:07 PM (4 months, 22 days ago) |
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I still haven't seen this no-pc popcorn tek, but it sounds dubious at best. We try to recommend best practices so that people don't waste their time.
If you want to say whatever and not get pushback, try reddit.
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starvinghooker
Voyager



Registered: 04/16/23
Posts: 533
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But free speech dey dirk a durrrrr!
-------------------- Grab life by the balls and yank on 'em til everything you want comes gushing out in thick, creamy ribbons Noob like me? Start here! Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 8,528
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
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Quote:
oldBMXboy said:
Quote:
veggie said:
Quote:
I use "Popcorn No-PC Tek", works like a champ.
Grain needs to be properly sterilized in a pressure cooker, especially a large, hard grain like popcorn.
oldBMXboy, the last time you mentioned the "Popcorn No-PC Tek" is when you created a bacteria contaminated substrate from using it. So please don't recommend it to others.
I've had one jar in 12 go bacterial, that ratio can happen to any noob with a pc too. I can recommend any commonly used tech, only commie bitches have a problem with free speech.
LOL. What a dumb fuck post.
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phungiphreak
Propagater


Registered: 07/06/23
Posts: 5
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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I use oats, much cheaper and all the qualities I am also looking for when using to ]
knock up bulk substrates.
If you wanted a data set that might actually be helpful,do a bit of homework and create
a proper poll.
Cheers
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 8,528
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
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You realize the op is 20 years old?
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