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Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably
    #21939108 -

The negotiations with Iran are very unlikely to be about making peace. The obstacles in the way are too great for a deal to be likely to pass through all the hoops necessary to be finalized.

More than likely, these negotiations represent a good faith effort on the part of the US and other UN member states to bring peace with Iran. Once this effort fails, and there is every indication that it will, then the path will be cleared for war with Iran.

Aside from the general political context of the situation, there is worldwide interest in scuttling the Iran deal. Even Russia does not want to see another 1B barrels of Iranian oil hit the market with prices this low, even if it would open up the arms embargo. Almost no one in the world wants to see that happen, for that matter.

War with Iran, however, would be an enormously profitable enterprise, which would prop up the price of oil for at least half a decade or so.


The "terrorist regime" and "freeing people from oppression" stuff is nothing more than a narrative the powers that be give to morons so that we aren't all contemplating the brutal realities behind warmaking. It's never about high morality, its about resources, nothing more, nothing less.

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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: xFrockx]
    #21939396 -

Arming Iran with nukes will destabilize the region and be a very lucrative opportunity for those selling weapons. War is the greatest money maker on the planet and I don't see any other reasons for a nuke deal to go down. Why even bother acting like they're going to follow any sort of rules when they already made purchases of nuclear weapon technology last month.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/iran-made-illegal-purchases-nuclear-weapons-technology-last-month_988067.html

It's like a circus show of articles with Iran these days. Iran Fines U.S. Administration $50 Billion?
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/iran-fines-u-s-administration-50-billion/


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"I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out"               
                -Bill Hicks-

__

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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: Astral Pain]
    #21940951 -

^^ in that case it's probably not a good thing that the CIA tried to sell Iran fake nuclear information, but ended up giving them real nuclear information.


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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: Astral Pain] * 1
    #21941031 -

Why should the land thieves and killers of the region be allowed to have nukes but not iran? This is thinly disguised racism. Iran is not made up of crazy people, they know that starting a nuclear war would be suicide and that usa will be forced to attack them. They have renounced nukes and if they had them, which they don't, they would be only for defense.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #21941190 -

If Iran, a Shia country, was nuclearly armed, it would almost certainly prompt prominent Sunni states, like Saudi Arabia, to also develop nuclear weapons. A nuclear arms race, in an already unstable part of the world, is the last thing anyone needs.


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DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21941397 -

Oh boo de hoo hoo, the Saudis might want their own nukes. Got news for you, they already want them. This is the weakest argument yet for stopping iran from nuclear technology which means of course war and killing loads of civilians.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21941477 -

BoldAsLove said:
If Iran, a Shia country, was nuclearly armed, it would almost certainly prompt prominent Sunni states, like Saudi Arabia, to also develop nuclear weapons. A nuclear arms race, in an already unstable part of the world, is the last thing anyone needs.


So start a nuclear war to prevent a nuclear war?

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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: qman]
    #21942060 -

Stonehenge said:
Oh boo de hoo hoo, the Saudis might want their own nukes. Got news for you, they already want them. This is the weakest argument yet for stopping iran from nuclear technology which means of course war and killing loads of civilians.


It's not an argument against them having nuclear technology. I support Iran using nuclear energy, but not them having nukes. And the Saudis want nukes, but have no imminent incentive to develop them, Iran having a weapon would change that. And let's not forget that Iran signed the NPT.

qman said:
BoldAsLove said:
If Iran, a Shia country, was nuclearly armed, it would almost certainly prompt prominent Sunni states, like Saudi Arabia, to also develop nuclear weapons. A nuclear arms race, in an already unstable part of the world, is the last thing anyone needs.


So start a nuclear war to prevent a nuclear war?


How on Earth did you get that from my post?


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DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21942142 -

>>So start a nuclear war to prevent a nuclear war?


>How on Earth did you get that from my post?

I didn't say that. No wonder people have noticed the far left is kind of dizzy.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21942182 -

BoldAsLove said:
Stonehenge said:
Oh boo de hoo hoo, the Saudis might want their own nukes. Got news for you, they already want them. This is the weakest argument yet for stopping iran from nuclear technology which means of course war and killing loads of civilians.


It's not an argument against them having nuclear technology. I support Iran using nuclear energy, but not them having nukes. And the Saudis want nukes, but have no imminent incentive to develop them, Iran having a weapon would change that. And let's not forget that Iran signed the NPT.

qman said:
BoldAsLove said:
If Iran, a Shia country, was nuclearly armed, it would almost certainly prompt prominent Sunni states, like Saudi Arabia, to also develop nuclear weapons. A nuclear arms race, in an already unstable part of the world, is the last thing anyone needs.


So start a nuclear war to prevent a nuclear war?


How on Earth did you get that from my post?


Well, how are you going to stop sovereign nations from developing nuclear weapons?  Just ask nicely?

Russia, China, Europe and the rest of the world don't seem to care, why should you?

The only way to stop them is to go to war and more likely than not a nuclear war, it makes no sense for the US to be involved in that situation.

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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21942218 -

Stonehenge said:
>>So start a nuclear war to prevent a nuclear war?


>How on Earth did you get that from my post?

I didn't say that. No wonder people have noticed the far left is kind of dizzy.


It quite clearly says at the top of the quote "qman said". Jesus man, calm down a bit. I get that you don't like me, but you don't have to make everything about you.

Also, do you have any response to what I actually replied to you with?


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DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

Edited by BoldAsLove (07/14/15 04:29 PM)

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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: qman]
    #21942247 -

qman said:
Well, how are you going to stop sovereign nations from developing nuclear weapons?  Just ask nicely?


Yes, a diplomatic solution is the ideal one and the one currently being used. Diplomacy has worked pretty well I'd say, just look at the NPT.

Quote:
Russia, China, Europe and the rest of the world don't seem to care, why should you?


Seriously? Russia, China, and Europe all care very much about Iran having a nuclear weapon, that's why they were involved in the talks for years now. (Not all of Europe, but big players, like the UK, Germany, and France)

Quote:
The only way to stop them is to go to war and more likely than not a nuclear war, it makes no sense for the US to be involved in that situation.


There is no need for war, let alone nuclear war, when diplomacy is still on the table, and never once did I suggest force should be used. Please don't put words in my mouth.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21942270 -

BoldAsLove said:
qman said:
Well, how are you going to stop sovereign nations from developing nuclear weapons?  Just ask nicely?


Yes, a diplomatic solution is the ideal one and the one currently being used. Diplomacy has worked pretty well I'd say, just look at the NPT.

Quote:
Russia, China, Europe and the rest of the world don't seem to care, why should you?


Seriously? Russia, China, and Europe all care very much about Iran having a nuclear weapon, that's why they were involved in the talks for years now. (Not all of Europe, but big players, like the UK, Germany, and France)

Quote:
The only way to stop them is to go to war and more likely than not a nuclear war, it makes no sense for the US to be involved in that situation.


There is no need for war, let alone nuclear war, when diplomacy is still on the table, and never once did I suggest force should be used. Please don't put words in my mouth.


Do you seriously think there's a diplomatic solution to this situation?  The US and Israel are just going to "talk" the Iranians out of producing a nuclear weapons program?  If you believe that, I have a few bridges for sale!

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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: qman]
    #21942304 -

It is by far in Iran's best interest to get an end to the strong sanctions put on it, by not just the U.S., but much of the rest of the world. Iran wants a nuke, but not if that means financial ruin. I dont see it being very likely that they'll have a nuke anytime soon, even if they do want one.


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DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21942416 -

There is nothing in the deal that even slows it down.  Fuck 'em.  Sanction the shit out of them until they bleed.  They are scum anyway.


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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21942458 -

We'll see how well the deal works. I'm cautiously optimistic that Iran will be on its best behavior for quite a while to avoid another round of sanctions.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: zappaisgod] * 2
    #21942471 -

We should sanction the hell out of isreal, and leave iran alone. Iran is not parasitizing us.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21942473 -

Are you tripping right now?


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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21942531 -

Unfortunately, no. I don't see why Iran has any reason to pursue a nuclear weapon given the state of their economy right now, nor why that would be considered such a ludicrous idea.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21942535 -

Stonehenge said:
We should sanction the hell out of isreal, and leave iran alone. Iran is not parasitizing us.


Israel is a far stronger ally to have in the region than Iran.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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