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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21955184 - 07/17/15 08:41 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Bold, you keep saying I or someone must prove our "claim" that iran is no threat to anyone or else they must be subject to crippling sanctions or war. You have it backward, first of all no one has proven the claim they are a threat, not just theoretical but actual threat to any country. Secondly, a theoretical threat is no reason for the punishment they have received. You have bought into the story line fed to you by the media.
Where is iran's history of invading other countries? How much land have they stolen? Zero and none. Compare that to isreal and you see which country is the real threat and which needs sanctions and perhaps war threats.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: Stonehenge]
#21955197 - 07/17/15 08:44 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Bold, you keep saying I or someone must prove our "claim" that iran is no threat to anyone or else they must be subject to crippling sanctions or war. You have it backward, first of all no one has proven the claim they are a threat, not just theoretical but actual threat to any country. Secondly, a theoretical threat is no reason for the punishment they have received. You have bought into the story line fed to you by the media.
Where is iran's history of invading other countries? How much land have they stolen? Zero and none. Compare that to isreal and you see which country is the real threat and which needs sanctions and perhaps war threats.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: KauaiOrca]
#21955252 - 07/17/15 09:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
BoldAsLove said: Again, I mostly agree with you. But a threat doesn't have to come in the form of a bomb or ground invasion necessarily. And you're right, as it stands, Israel does not have a reason to fear imminent harm from Iran. But a nuclear weapon greatly alters the balance of power and could embolden the country in unforeseen ways. Not to mention that introducing more nuclear capabilities into a region that is already a cluster fuck increases the threat level to everyone in the region.
My entire point here is that Iran is not some harmless little country. They carry real influence in the region, and could certainly present a threat. This would only increase with a nuclear weapon.
More nuclear weapons in that region is not a good situation, I agree. Let's be honest though, Israel has them, the Saudi's helps fund Pakistan's nuclear program and I'm quite sure there are strings attached … The Soviets and Chinese have nukes and have real interest in the region.
If it takes war after war after war to prevent the region from going more nuclear, I'm not convinced that's a better option.
Personally, I find the Saudis a much bigger problem to the US than the Iranians. They fund most of the Sunni extremism, most of the 9/11 terrorists and funding came from the Saudis and they are assumed to be our ALLIES! WTF is that all about?
Iran is the center of Shia Islam and Shia is a much smaller percentage of Islam than Sunni and Shia does not have the kind of extremism element we see with Al Queda or Isis or Wahabism in general. Iran reacts more to the Saudis than they do to us.
Why would it take war after war to prevent them from having nukes? We're both arguing the same side of the coin it sounds like: Iran having nukes is negative.
All this other information about the Saudis is not really relevant. The question here is Iran and their nuclear program. If we can stop them from having a nuke through economic or diplomatic means, why wouldn't we?
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: Stonehenge]
#21955261 - 07/17/15 09:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Bold, you keep saying I or someone must prove our "claim" that iran is no threat to anyone or else they must be subject to crippling sanctions or war. You have it backward, first of all no one has proven the claim they are a threat, not just theoretical but actual threat to any country. Secondly, a theoretical threat is no reason for the punishment they have received. You have bought into the story line fed to you by the media.
Where is iran's history of invading other countries? How much land have they stolen? Zero and none. Compare that to isreal and you see which country is the real threat and which needs sanctions and perhaps war threats.
You are the one who made the original claim and never backed it up. I provided evidence and reasoning for why they are a threat to Israel and your response was, "no way, the translation is wrong."
You are fixated on hating Israel, but their actions are not really relevant to Irans nuclear program. And I certainly haven't supported Israel, they've got a troubling history of abuse.
The question here is concerning Iran's nuclear program, and you still haven't been clear about how you feel about it (except to say you hate Israel). So do you think Iran should have a nuclear weapon, why or why not?
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21955287 - 07/17/15 09:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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>If we can stop them from having a nuke through economic or diplomatic means, why wouldn't we?
You could say the same about a lot of countries. Why should we do this at great cost to us?
>You are the one who made the original claim
You still fail to see that no credible evidence has been given to show they are a threat to anyone. All you have is speculation. i also have no obligation to disprove any other conspiracy theory which is all you have. A false interpretation of what someone said is nothing. i say again, what about the nutty things some of our politicians have said? What about Reagan saying he was going to bomb Russia? i say look at actions and iran is no threat based on that but isreal is.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 minutes, 50 seconds
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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21955313 - 07/17/15 09:27 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
BoldAsLove said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
BoldAsLove said: Again, I mostly agree with you. But a threat doesn't have to come in the form of a bomb or ground invasion necessarily. And you're right, as it stands, Israel does not have a reason to fear imminent harm from Iran. But a nuclear weapon greatly alters the balance of power and could embolden the country in unforeseen ways. Not to mention that introducing more nuclear capabilities into a region that is already a cluster fuck increases the threat level to everyone in the region.
My entire point here is that Iran is not some harmless little country. They carry real influence in the region, and could certainly present a threat. This would only increase with a nuclear weapon.
More nuclear weapons in that region is not a good situation, I agree. Let's be honest though, Israel has them, the Saudi's helps fund Pakistan's nuclear program and I'm quite sure there are strings attached … The Soviets and Chinese have nukes and have real interest in the region.
If it takes war after war after war to prevent the region from going more nuclear, I'm not convinced that's a better option.
Personally, I find the Saudis a much bigger problem to the US than the Iranians. They fund most of the Sunni extremism, most of the 9/11 terrorists and funding came from the Saudis and they are assumed to be our ALLIES! WTF is that all about?
Iran is the center of Shia Islam and Shia is a much smaller percentage of Islam than Sunni and Shia does not have the kind of extremism element we see with Al Queda or Isis or Wahabism in general. Iran reacts more to the Saudis than they do to us.
Why would it take war after war to prevent them from having nukes? We're both arguing the same side of the coin it sounds like: Iran having nukes is negative.
All this other information about the Saudis is not really relevant. The question here is Iran and their nuclear program. If we can stop them from having a nuke through economic or diplomatic means, why wouldn't we?
"If we (US) can stop them from having a nuke"
It shouldn't be "we", it should be the whole world (EU, China, Russia, India, ect). If the rest of the world isn't too concerned, so be it.
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: Stonehenge]
#21955316 - 07/17/15 09:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: >If we can stop them from having a nuke through economic or diplomatic means, why wouldn't we?
You could say the same about a lot of countries. Why should we do this at great cost to us?
What is the great cost for us? And we already use this strategy successfully with most of the world.
Quote:
>You are the one who made the original claim
You still fail to see that no credible evidence has been given to show they are a threat to anyone. All you have is speculation. i also have no obligation to disprove any other conspiracy theory which is all you have. A false interpretation of what someone said is nothing. i say again, what about the nutty things some of our politicians have said? What about Reagan saying he was going to bomb Russia? i say look at actions and iran is no threat based on that but isreal is.
You just assumed it was a class interpretation, can you provide anything to support that? And besides, no one here denies the tensions between Iran and Israel. If your neighbor down the street hated you and was constantly making threats or accusations, would you wait until he was at your front door with a gun before you considered him a threat?
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: qman]
#21955325 - 07/17/15 09:32 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
BoldAsLove said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
BoldAsLove said: Again, I mostly agree with you. But a threat doesn't have to come in the form of a bomb or ground invasion necessarily. And you're right, as it stands, Israel does not have a reason to fear imminent harm from Iran. But a nuclear weapon greatly alters the balance of power and could embolden the country in unforeseen ways. Not to mention that introducing more nuclear capabilities into a region that is already a cluster fuck increases the threat level to everyone in the region.
My entire point here is that Iran is not some harmless little country. They carry real influence in the region, and could certainly present a threat. This would only increase with a nuclear weapon.
More nuclear weapons in that region is not a good situation, I agree. Let's be honest though, Israel has them, the Saudi's helps fund Pakistan's nuclear program and I'm quite sure there are strings attached … The Soviets and Chinese have nukes and have real interest in the region.
If it takes war after war after war to prevent the region from going more nuclear, I'm not convinced that's a better option.
Personally, I find the Saudis a much bigger problem to the US than the Iranians. They fund most of the Sunni extremism, most of the 9/11 terrorists and funding came from the Saudis and they are assumed to be our ALLIES! WTF is that all about?
Iran is the center of Shia Islam and Shia is a much smaller percentage of Islam than Sunni and Shia does not have the kind of extremism element we see with Al Queda or Isis or Wahabism in general. Iran reacts more to the Saudis than they do to us.
Why would it take war after war to prevent them from having nukes? We're both arguing the same side of the coin it sounds like: Iran having nukes is negative.
All this other information about the Saudis is not really relevant. The question here is Iran and their nuclear program. If we can stop them from having a nuke through economic or diplomatic means, why wouldn't we?
"If we (US) can stop them from having a nuke"
It shouldn't be "we", it should be the whole world (EU, China, Russia, India, ect). If the rest of the world isn't too concerned, so be it.
Why does this claim keep coming up?? The sanctions against Iran are global. The talks were help by the P5+1 group. Do you honestly believe it's just the U.S. who doesn't want Iran to have a weapon?
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 minutes, 50 seconds
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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21955375 - 07/17/15 09:48 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
BoldAsLove said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
BoldAsLove said: Again, I mostly agree with you. But a threat doesn't have to come in the form of a bomb or ground invasion necessarily. And you're right, as it stands, Israel does not have a reason to fear imminent harm from Iran. But a nuclear weapon greatly alters the balance of power and could embolden the country in unforeseen ways. Not to mention that introducing more nuclear capabilities into a region that is already a cluster fuck increases the threat level to everyone in the region.
My entire point here is that Iran is not some harmless little country. They carry real influence in the region, and could certainly present a threat. This would only increase with a nuclear weapon.
More nuclear weapons in that region is not a good situation, I agree. Let's be honest though, Israel has them, the Saudi's helps fund Pakistan's nuclear program and I'm quite sure there are strings attached … The Soviets and Chinese have nukes and have real interest in the region.
If it takes war after war after war to prevent the region from going more nuclear, I'm not convinced that's a better option.
Personally, I find the Saudis a much bigger problem to the US than the Iranians. They fund most of the Sunni extremism, most of the 9/11 terrorists and funding came from the Saudis and they are assumed to be our ALLIES! WTF is that all about?
Iran is the center of Shia Islam and Shia is a much smaller percentage of Islam than Sunni and Shia does not have the kind of extremism element we see with Al Queda or Isis or Wahabism in general. Iran reacts more to the Saudis than they do to us.
Why would it take war after war to prevent them from having nukes? We're both arguing the same side of the coin it sounds like: Iran having nukes is negative.
All this other information about the Saudis is not really relevant. The question here is Iran and their nuclear program. If we can stop them from having a nuke through economic or diplomatic means, why wouldn't we?
"If we (US) can stop them from having a nuke"
It shouldn't be "we", it should be the whole world (EU, China, Russia, India, ect). If the rest of the world isn't too concerned, so be it.
Why does this claim keep coming up?? The sanctions against Iran are global. The talks were help by the P5 1 group. Do you honestly believe it's just the U.S. who doesn't want Iran to have a weapon?
Does China and Russia (who are allies of Iran) fear Iran getting nuclear weapons? No.
Do you think the rest of the world will even follow the rules of the sanctions over time? It's one thing to sign an agreement and it's another thing to actually live by it. The EU does billions worth of business with Iran, they are not big fans of losing a business partner.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,368
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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: qman]
#21955412 - 07/17/15 09:59 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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China and Russia aren't getting nuked by anyone anytime soon, and neither is the US.
We're playing big brother for Israel, who ironically has illegal nukes, with Iran.
Pakistan is a much bigger threat, but nobody talks about the potential for a nuclear war between them and India. Or selling nukes to Saudi Arabia.
No, let's worry about the nation that hasn't invaded anybody since the 1800s.
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: qman]
#21955432 - 07/17/15 10:06 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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China:
Quote:
In January 2012, Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao strongly criticized Iran's nuclear program, saying that China "adamantly opposes Iran developing and possessing nuclear weapons"
Russia:
Quote:
Russia will do everything in its power to ensure the full implementation of the Vienna agreements, assisting in strengthening global and regional security, global nuclear non-proliferation, the creation in the Middle East of a zone free from weapons of mass destruction and their means of delivery, and the mobilisation of a broad coalition in the region to counter terrorist threats.
The EU has had sanctions on Iran since 2010.
It is definitely not just America who doesn't want Iran to have a nuke.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21955440 - 07/17/15 10:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: China and Russia aren't getting nuked by anyone anytime soon, and neither is the US.
We're playing big brother for Israel, who ironically has illegal nukes, with Iran.
Pakistan is a much bigger threat, but nobody talks about the potential for a nuclear war between them and India. Or selling nukes to Saudi Arabia.
No, let's worry about the nation that hasn't invaded anybody since the 1800s.
Israel, India, and Pakistan all have nuclear weapons and never signed the NPT. How do you propose we take their nuclear weapons away from them?
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 minutes, 50 seconds
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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21955503 - 07/17/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
BoldAsLove said: China:
Quote:
In January 2012, Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao strongly criticized Iran's nuclear program, saying that China "adamantly opposes Iran developing and possessing nuclear weapons"
Russia:
Quote:
Russia will do everything in its power to ensure the full implementation of the Vienna agreements, assisting in strengthening global and regional security, global nuclear non-proliferation, the creation in the Middle East of a zone free from weapons of mass destruction and their means of delivery, and the mobilisation of a broad coalition in the region to counter terrorist threats.
The EU has had sanctions on Iran since 2010.
It is definitely not just America who doesn't want Iran to have a nuke.
Why do you buy into every headline put out by a government official and call it complete truth? What do you expect them to say?
Does Russia and China still sell them high technology military weaponry? Yes they do, so it seems they talk the talk but don't walk the walk.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/14/europe/russia-iran-air-defense-system-sale/
http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-is-selling-a-game-changing-missile-system-to-iran-2015-4
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-10-27/some-chinese-missile-sales-to-iran-may-escape-u-s-sanctions-law
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21955510 - 07/17/15 10:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think we all know that this agreement WILL pass and Iran will do everything they can to stall, slow, re position, etc. the agreement as far as they can for as long as they can. This is the nature of these kinds of agreements. At some point a few years from now, we'll get a comprehensive report that there are other sites/locations that Iran has moved their supplies, research and production facilities to. WE KNOW THIS IS COMING. The question is, what to do about it? At some point the drums for war will beat hard and that will be another huge mistake if we take the bait again.
Instead, let's focus our attention more at home, on Mexico, Central and South America and get out of this global policing situation. Let Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Turkey sort this one out. We can get to energy independence quickly if we focus on it and we can have a lot fewer tankers going to and coming from the Middle East and, instead going to ports all over the Americas. Nuclear proliferation is bad but it's also bad to get baited into these decades long ground wars that just deplete our resources and ability to focus on solving problems at home.
Just my 2 cents.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: qman]
#21955514 - 07/17/15 10:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just because they sell them weaponry doesn't mean they support them having nuclear weapons. The leaders of those countries are smart enough to realize that Iran having a nuke is destabilizing for the region and bad for just about everyone. Once again, the point here is that the U.S. is not standing alone in opposing Irans nuclear program.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 minutes, 50 seconds
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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: KauaiOrca]
#21955540 - 07/17/15 10:42 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said: I think we all know that this agreement WILL pass and Iran will do everything they can to stall, slow, re position, etc. the agreement as far as they can for as long as they can. This is the nature of these kinds of agreements. At some point a few years from now, we'll get a comprehensive report that there are other sites/locations that Iran has moved their supplies, research and production facilities to. WE KNOW THIS IS COMING. The question is, what to do about it? At some point the drums for war will beat hard and that will be another huge mistake if we take the bait again.
Instead, let's focus our attention more at home, on Mexico, Central and South America and get out of this global policing situation. Let Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Turkey sort this one out. We can get to energy independence quickly if we focus on it and we can have a lot fewer tankers going to and coming from the Middle East and, instead going to ports all over the Americas. Nuclear proliferation is bad but it's also bad to get baited into these decades long ground wars that just deplete our resources and ability to focus on solving problems at home.
Just my 2 cents.
Well said.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: zappaisgod]
#21955670 - 07/17/15 11:07 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: The Saudis would much rather Iran doesn't increase the global oil supply, for a multitude of reasons.
They fucking hate each other.
The saudis are already attacking yemen, why are we not sanctioning them? Plus they're Muslims, you would surely think carpet bombing them would be a public service?
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,368
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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21955767 - 07/17/15 11:41 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
BoldAsLove said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: China and Russia aren't getting nuked by anyone anytime soon, and neither is the US.
We're playing big brother for Israel, who ironically has illegal nukes, with Iran.
Pakistan is a much bigger threat, but nobody talks about the potential for a nuclear war between them and India. Or selling nukes to Saudi Arabia.
No, let's worry about the nation that hasn't invaded anybody since the 1800s.
Israel, India, and Pakistan all have nuclear weapons and never signed the NPT. How do you propose we take their nuclear weapons away from them?
I'm not necessarily saying we should.
But worrying about hypothetical nukes being used to solve a hypothetical problem by a nation with virtually zero history of aggression, instead of actual threats by actual nations with actual nukes, is stupidity.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21955779 - 07/17/15 11:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
I'm not necessarily saying we should.
But worrying about hypothetical nukes being used to solve a hypothetical problem by a nation with virtually zero history of aggression, instead of actual threats by actual nations with actual nukes, is stupidity.
VERY well said!!!
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Here's what the Iran Negotiations are really about, probably [Re: KauaiOrca]
#21955929 - 07/17/15 12:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Why do so many people seem absolutely sure iran is the bad guy in the world? SA supports terrorism, so does turkey, Russia, china, and others. i do not see a shred of evidence that iran is some big threat to the world. We do nothing about n korea, our hypocrisy is plain to see. We are against iran because isreal told us to be and the media they control told us this big story. i see most people have eaten it up and adopted the story line. Zappa i can see since he hates everyone over there but the rest of you?
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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