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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
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Letters to Michael Moore from the soldiers...
    #2194133 - 12/21/03 06:29 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

This thread isn't meant to dredge up old arguements about machael moore. That's not what it's about. I just think some of these letters are interesting to read considering they come from the front lines in Iraq..

Btw these are just a few...there are more at www.micahelmoore.com


Lance Corporal George Batton of the United States Marine Corps, who returned from Iraq in September (after serving in MP company Alpha), writes the following:

?You'd be surprised at how many of the guys I talked to in my company and others believed that the president's scare about Saddam's WMD was a bunch of bullshit and that the real motivation for this war was only about money. There was also a lot of crap that many companies, not just marine companies, had to go through with not getting enough equipment to fulfill their missions when they crossed the border. It was a miracle that our company did what it did the two months it was staying in Iraq during the war?. We were promised to go home on June 8th, and found out that it was a lie and we got stuck doing missions for an extra three months. Even some of the most radical conservatives in our company including our company gunnery sergeant got a real bad taste in their mouth about the Marine corps, and maybe even president Bush.?


Here's what Specialist Mike Prysner of the U.S. Army wrote to me:

?Dear Mike -- I?m writing this without knowing if it?ll ever get to you?I?m writing it from the trenches of a war (that?s still going on,) not knowing why I?m here or when I?m leaving. I?ve toppled statues and vandalized portraits, while wearing an American flag on my sleeve, and struggling to learn how to understand? I joined the army as soon as I was eligible ? turned down a writing scholarship to a state university, eager to serve my country, ready to die for the ideals I fell in love with. Two years later I found myself moments away from a landing onto a pitch black airstrip, ready to charge into a country I didn't believe I belonged in, with your words (from the Oscars) repeating in my head. My time in Iraq has always involved finding things to convince myself that I can be proud of my actions; that I was a part of something just. But no matter what pro-war argument I came up with, I pictured my smirking commander-in-chief, thinking he was fooling a nation?"


An Army private, still in Iraq and wishing to remain anonymous, writes:

?I would like to tell you how difficult it is to serve under a man who was never elected. Because he is the president and my boss, I have to be very careful as to who and what i say about him. This also concerns me a great deal... to limit the military's voice is to limit exactly what America stands for... and the greater percentage of us feel completely underpowered. He continually sets my friends, my family, and several others in a kind of danger that frightens me beyond belief. I know several other soldiers who feel the same way and discuss the situation with me on a regular basis.?


Jerry Oliver of the U.S. Army, who has just returned from Baghdad, writes:

?I have just returned home from "Operation Iraqi Freedom". I spent 5 months in Baghdad, and a total of 3 years in the U.S. Army. I was recently discharged with Honorable valor and returned to the States only to be horrified by what I've seen my country turn into. I'm now 22 years old and have discovered America is such a complicated place to live, and moreover, Americans are almost oblivious to what's been happening to their country. America has become "1984." Homeland security is teaching us to spy on one another and forcing us to become anti-social. Americans are willingly sacrificing our freedoms in the name of security, the same Freedoms I was willing to put my life on the line for. The constitution is in jeopardy. As Gen. Tommy Franks said, (broken down of course) One more terrorist attack and the constitution will hold no meaning.?
And a Specialist in the U.S. Army wrote to me this week about the capture of Saddam Hussein:
?Wow, 130,000 troops on the ground, nearly 500 deaths and over a billion dollars a day, but they caught a guy living in a hole. Am I supposed to be dazzled??


There are lots more of these, straight from the soldiers who have been on the front lines and have seen first hand what this war is really about.

I have also heard from their friends and relatives, and from other veterans. A mother writing on behalf of her son (whose name we have withheld) wrote:

?My son said that this is the worst it's been since the "end" of the war. He said the troops have been given new rules of engagement, and that they are to "take out" any persons who aggress on the Americans, even if it results in "collateral" damage. Unfortunately, he did have to kill someone in self defense and was told by his commanding officer ?Good kill.?
"My son replied ?You just don't get it, do you??
"Here we are...Vietnam all over again.?


From a 56 year old Navy veteran, relating a conversation he had with a young man who was leaving for Iraq the next morning:

?What disturbed me most was when I asked him what weapons he carried as a truck driver. He told me the new M-16, model blah blah blah, stuff never made sense to me even when I was in. I asked him what kind of side arm they gave him and his fellow drivers. He explained, "Sir, Reservists are not issued side arms or flack vests as there was not enough money to outfit all the Reservists, only Active Personnel". I was appalled to say the least.
"Bush is a jerk agreed, but I can't believe he is this big an Asshole not providing protection and arms for our troops to fight HIS WAR!?


From a 40-year old veteran of the Marine Corps:

?Why is it that we are forever waving the flag of sovereignty, EXCEPT when it concerns our financial interests in other sovereign states? What gives us the right to tell anyone else how they should govern themselves, and live their lives? Why can't we just lead the world by example? I mean no wonder the world hates us, who do they get to see? Young assholes in uniforms with guns, and rich, old, white tourists! Christ, could we put up a worse first impression??

---------------------
you ask so many questions which answers should i choose?
is it schizoid paranoia or just existensial blues?


--------------------
Religion is for people who are afraid of going to Hell; spirituality is for those who have been there.


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Letters to Michael Moore from the soldiers... [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #2194218 - 12/21/03 07:26 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I wouldn't really be so sure that those letters came from the people they say that htey did, shitblob moore is known for making things up. SUch as everything in that stupid movie about columbine.... why couldn't he have hobbled his obese ass up to the observation deck on 9/11... fat fuck


--------------------
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Letters to Michael Moore from the soldiers... [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2194271 - 12/21/03 08:01 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Please show me what in that movie that was made up, which wasn't rebutted. I've seen that stupid site which has his so called "lies" and most of that is BS. If I were you id be more angry with the KNOWN lies from your beady eyed buddy Dubya.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Letters to Michael Moore from the soldiers... [Re: barfightlard]
    #2194278 - 12/21/03 08:06 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

www.moorewatch.org is one, I think.

Yes, most of his lies are bullshit, glad ya agree.

And the difference is, you guessed it, as it's been said a quatrillion tiems in here,you don't have PROOF that Bush lied, you have, as of today, proof that he was incorrect. Moore overtly lied.

Just because I don't like Moore, the president is my buddy? Great use of logic there, two thumbs up.


--------------------
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Letters to Michael Moore from the soldiers... [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #2194282 - 12/21/03 08:07 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

You might want to spell "Micheal Moore" correctly, and lead people to his actual webpage, rather than some mass-purchased ready-to-sell domain of www.micahelmoore.com.


--------------------
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Letters to Michael Moore from the soldiers... [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2194288 - 12/21/03 08:11 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)


From Colonel Ranch Barton, USMC
"These people are so glad we are here! Every day more Iraqi's are thankfulthat they can now practise their religion as they please, Kurds are not fearful of mass executions anymore. Boy I hope that fat shit-for-brain dickface Michael Moore isn't making things up about this".



I just made that up, but I'm sure Moore is doing the same... *shrug*


--------------------
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Letters to Michael Moore from the soldiers... [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #2194390 - 12/21/03 09:23 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

at the very least...we should give moore credit for
being smart enough not to use a form letter for his
propagandizing.

:smirk:


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Re: Letters to Michael Moore from the soldiers... [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #2194686 - 12/21/03 11:03 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

to limit the military's voice is to limit exactly what America stands for...




--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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Offlineflow
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Re: Letters to Michael Moore from the soldiers... [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #2194784 - 12/22/03 01:29 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

The truth is always somewhere in between. Moore is an asshole who only wants to make money. Coincidently so is Bush. If you take anything either one of them say as the truth you need a kick in the nuts.


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Letters to Michael Moore from the soldiers... [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2195664 - 12/22/03 02:35 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

www.moorewatch.org is a broken link and btw, there are also more broken stuff in your logic.
Proof ? Why do you need a proof when you have the whole world economical/political/social situation turned upside down thanks to G.Bush ? The truth does not need evidence or proof, it exists ...
Anyway, if the system/president is the culprit (supposition) and at the same time, is the same system which tries to verify any proof or evidence (which is the case), then any conclusion like a proof he didn't lied, is just as valid as any evidence the "fat shit-for-brain" like you say, might offer.

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Letters to Michael Moore from the soldiers... [Re: afoaf]
    #2195860 - 12/22/03 04:24 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

hey afoaf, did I ever tell you about the time I parachuted from a C-17 onto a cold, muddy field in Northern Iraq with the 503rd Airborne Infantry Regiment, otherwise known as the "Rock." ?


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Letters to Michael Moore from the soldiers... [Re: Edame]
    #2195903 - 12/22/03 04:53 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

no, but I do remember that little ditty about your service
in the Texas Air National Guard.

you're a damn good soldier...

:smirk:


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Letters to Michael Moore from the soldiers... [Re: MAIA]
    #2198311 - 12/23/03 07:18 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MAIA said:
www.moorewatch.org is a broken link and btw, there are also more broken stuff in your logic.




We've already had this thread about 2 months ago, when the search engine work's, I'll let you read and catch up. I'll work on my "also more broken stuff" in the near future, I have ENGLISH class now.
Quote:


Proof ? Why do you need a proof when you have the whole world economical/political/social situation turned upside down thanks to G.Bush ?
[/quote
So, if you see someone make a statment like that and offer no
support, you accept it as truth? Aliens have landed in America!
Quote:


The truth does not need evidence or proof, it exists ...




Anything that exists can be objectively proved. Mount Rushmore, for example, is not near me, but I can visit it, see pictures of it, or do numerous other things to prove it exists. You are talking about blindly accepting something. If you want to prove something, the standards of this forum are a little bit higher. If it is the truth that you are expressing, it should be quite easy to prove, right?
Quote:


Anyway, if the system/president is the culprit (supposition) and at the same time, is the same system which tries to verify any proof or evidence (which is the case), then any conclusion like a proof he didn't lied, is just as valid as any evidence the "fat shit-for-brain" like you say, might offer.




I don't have a clue what you are saying there. Use less pronouns and more description until you've laid out your entire theory, and provided that little proof thing we talked about earlier.
Just a little help
proof ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prf)
n.
The evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion as true.

The validation of a proposition by application of specified rules, as of induction or deduction, to assumptions, axioms, and sequentially derived conclusions.
A statement or argument used in such a validation.

Convincing or persuasive demonstration: was asked for proof of his identity; an employment history that was proof of her dependability.
The state of being convinced or persuaded by consideration of evidence.
Determination of the quality of something by testing; trial: put one's beliefs to the proof.
Law. The result or effect of evidence; the establishment or denial of a fact by evidence.
The alcoholic strength of a liquor, expressed by a number that is twice the percentage by volume of alcohol present.
Printing.
A trial sheet of printed material that is made to be checked and corrected. Also called proof sheet.
A trial impression of a plate, stone, or block taken at any of various stages in engraving.

A trial photographic print.
Any of a limited number of newly minted coins or medals struck as specimens and for collectors from a new die on a polished planchet.




truth ( P ) Pronunciation Key (trth)
n. pl. truths (trthz, trths)
Conformity to fact or actuality.
A statement proven to be or accepted as true.
Sincerity; integrity.
Fidelity to an original or standard.

Reality; actuality.
often Truth That which is considered to be the supreme reality and to have the ultimate meaning and value of existence.



You have to have PROOF of the TRUTH, not conjecture or wild assertations.


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Letters to Michael Moore from the soldiers... [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2199233 - 12/24/03 07:26 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

You have to have PROOF of the TRUTH, not conjecture or wild assertations.




"Bush is not lying" How can you prove someone didn't do something ?
Do you know the TRUTH ?
Can you prove something didn't happen without knowing the truth ?

You may believe in his words, that's one thing. Now, proving he's not lying is logically impossible till you know the truth, which you don't :wink:. Proving someone is lying is different, try to think why...

Quote:

Anything that exists can be objectively proved.




Yes, but you are trying to prove something that doesn't exist, something that someone didn't do.

Quote:

If it is the truth that you are expressing, it should be quite easy to prove, right?




Right, but how do you know someone is expressing the truth ? Isn't history full of chapters of lies thought to be true which were corrected later, please correct me if i'm wrong.
And, thanks about the meaning of those words but i have some dictionaries laying around, i know writing in a foreign language can be difficult sometimes.

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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