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InvisibleSclorch
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Michael Moore's DWMC - a review
    #2220621 - 01/05/04 03:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Let me first state that I do not support nor do I oppose Michael Moore... he's just some guy for all I care.


Okay...
So I have this very liberal friend who fancies anything several steps to the left of center.  So he keeps nagging me to read Michael Moore's Dude, Where's My Country?  Eventually, I gave in.  So I took it (and other books) on my holiday trip to pass time in the airports and whatnot.

Negatives:
Full of rhetoric, poorly written, lot's of ego and self-reference, and trite.

Positives:
He actually included sources and he asked good questions.

In summary, I really do think Moore asked some good questions, unfortunately he then answered them.  :tongue:


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Michael Moore's DWMC - a review [Re: Sclorch]
    #2221848 - 01/06/04 12:48 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What... are you people burned out on Moore?

Sorry.


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Michael Moore's DWMC - a review [Re: Sclorch]
    #2221884 - 01/06/04 01:05 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't like Michael Moore. His points aren't so much points of interest so much as they are points of inflammitory snippets..

Well, I'll forgoe kindness since he's nowhere near. I think he's just a big jackass, who makes money off being a jackass that says things that other people may agree with, but does so in such a close-minded way possible that the only thing I can describe him as is a Troll in the web forum sense of the word..
The only reason he mentioned the war in Iraq during that award ceremony was to sell books. THE ONLY. The very next day in the book store I worked in, his book was in the #1 best-seller spot.. now obviously overnight his book didn't sell a billion copies, but the fraud going on behind best-seller lists is not for this post to cover.

Bowling for Columbine -- here's an example. He mocks a bank that gives away a rifle for opening an account with them of a certain size by constantly questioning how safe a bank could be that's chock full of guns.. as if someone's going to break into the bank, steal a gun from inside the safes and behind the counters, load it with ammo presumably brought from elsewhere, and then rob the bank? That's a ludacris plan to begin with, and aside from that, that particular bank was in a small rural town.. most everyone was gun owners to begin with. Not only that, but he was a few years late, as I had known about that bank long long before Bowling for Columbine came out, and thought it a great gimmick. If you've got a town full of hunters and marksmen, a rifle for opening an account's more than a good deal.. it's odd enough to draw people in, a brilliant marketing ploy.. after all, it'd be quite something to be able to tell friends that you got this rifle from your bank. That'd be like buying shrooms from a uniformed officer -- you'd tell EEVVERRYYYONE.

I dunno.. I don't like the guy. He's just a pompous windbag, and I refuse to try to go beyond that with anything he says. There's better sources.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Michael Moore's DWMC - a review [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #2221986 - 01/06/04 01:52 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Okay, but his questions... are they categorically unfair as well?

I totally agree that he's a jackass.
I'm just wondering if anyone else thinks there's a baby in all his bathwater.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleYarry
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Re: Michael Moore's DWMC - a review [Re: Sclorch]
    #2222002 - 01/06/04 02:06 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think the questions he asks are ones we need answered, just not by him. He is definetly very one sided and hypocritical. I love the fact that he degrades the NRA in BFC yet he's a member. he brings up very valid arguements but he should leave the answers to others.. i much prefer jon stewart (daily show with john stewart) he asks the questions moore does, and he answers them in his own way without cramming it down your throat. I think moores downfall was his speech at the oscars or some other damn award show.. hes trying to be too political and alienating alot of people in the process!


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OfflineShizpow
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Re: Michael Moore's DWMC - a review [Re: Yarry]
    #2222087 - 01/06/04 02:43 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"I love the fact that he degrades the NRA in BFC yet he's a member."

This really pissed me off as well. He goes to great lengths to show that it's not the simple presence of guns in our country that leads to violence (common fucking sense anyway) and then procedes to rip into one of the only organizations in the country that's actively trying to protect our access to the very guns that he admits are not the problem.

He makes some good points, but they get lost in a sea of bullshit. He's just trying too hard and in the wrong ways to come off as cool and "politically aware," and he ends up just looking like a pompous jackass. Like the whole thing with the rifles in the bank. No, it's not in the least bit unsafe. It would take a supreme fucking mongoloid to walk into a place with loads of video cameras, write his full name and all his info down on bank account forms, submit to an instant FBI background check, and then try to rob a bank with a bolt action hunting rifle. And it's not the fact that Moore's opinion on the matter is wrong that pisses me off. It's the fact that he knows all of this as well as any of us, and he's just trying to look clever and zany.

On top of all of this, it takes a real asshole to secure an interview on false pretenses with an old man who has Alzheimer's disease, and then treat him like shit in his own home because his beliefs differ from yours. That movie really soured me on Michael Moore. There are other places where we can get political comentary that are written by more tallented people who are less full of themselves.


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If you cut a face lengthwise, urinate on it, and trample on it with straw sandles, it is said that the skin will come off. This was heard by the priest Gyojaku when he was in Kyoto. It is information to be treasured.


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InvisibleYarry
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Re: Michael Moore's DWMC - a review [Re: Shizpow]
    #2222103 - 01/06/04 02:52 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

but man u gotta admit, coming to a place a few days after the gun murder of a 6 year old to promote gun rights.. i know hes trying to stay in the media eye but thats cold.


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Grumpy Old Man.


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OfflineShizpow
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Re: Michael Moore's DWMC - a review [Re: Yarry]
    #2222183 - 01/06/04 03:37 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I agree. I've never claimed that Charleton Heston was on the all star list for tact, but that's another matter. I'm not taking issue with what Michael Moore said to Heston, but the way in which he went about it.


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If you cut a face lengthwise, urinate on it, and trample on it with straw sandles, it is said that the skin will come off. This was heard by the priest Gyojaku when he was in Kyoto. It is information to be treasured.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Michael Moore's DWMC - a review [Re: Shizpow]
    #2223288 - 01/06/04 03:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Michael Moore is a revolutionary. Of course he's going to piss you people off.




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Offlinewaterbug
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Re: Michael Moore's DWMC - a review [Re: Sclorch]
    #2223535 - 01/06/04 05:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I've read the book, Ive seen the movies and I have to say that I think Michael Moore is one of the only people in this country that I trust at all. He is a good man fighting a good fight for once. He wants the best for his country, and the people in it, the reason he went into that bank was to show just how easy it is to get a gun in the United States not only are we allowed to own things that are meant for one thing (death), but all we have to do to get one is sign up for a bank account, wtf?


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InvisibleYarry
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Re: Michael Moore's DWMC - a review [Re: waterbug]
    #2223559 - 01/06/04 05:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

hah did anyone hear about how he got a ficus tree elected to US Senate?? honestly, they wouldnt let him in but this is the story. A small county in, i beleive, Florida, had the same senate representation for a LONG time and they were fed up. No one ran against him. Then just for a joke Moore puts a tree up against this guy, and it actually won the vote! The catch was there were very few rules for candidates, They had to be born in the US, at least 25 years of age, and of good health. How great is that?


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Offlined33p
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Re: Michael Moore's DWMC - a review [Re: Yarry]
    #2223995 - 01/06/04 08:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

YarryShroomer said:
but man u gotta admit, coming to a place a few days after the gun murder of a 6 year old to promote gun rights.. i know hes trying to stay in the media eye but thats cold.




Wow are you fucking joking me?

I guess Moore really worked his magic on you didn't he. The FACT is that Heston was not there to support gun rights, he was not there a few days after. In fact he went there many weeks after to support a canidate in the race for the presidency. In fact Moore was there at the same time to promote his canidate but he didnt seem to mention it. It is also believed he faked that scene with the mothers or whatever beacuse it was at the wrong time.

Damn you see thats why i hate this prick beacuse his sole intent was to disinform his viewers to get them to accept his own views.


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Michael Moore's DWMC - a review [Re: d33p]
    #2224179 - 01/06/04 10:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think the NRA did hold a meeting/rally, call it what you will, in Colorado shortly after Columbine, but I think it was in Denver?.. it wasn't to promote guns. It wasn't to celebrate the use of guns. It was to gather support against the coming tide of absolutely useless and reactionary gun laws that were already being thrown about within days of the killings. Those in support of gun control are very, very often far, far more of a knee-jerk reactionary type than anyone opposed to it, simply because they always wait for someone to die and immediately throw out a law that they say would have prevented it, but actually would NOT have, and use the emotional force of the death of an innocent to further their own agenda. And personally? That's fucking sick.

Michael Moore's domain is that of emotional manipulation and pure shock value. In other words he's unintelligent scum.

Jon Stewart's a good example. He's liberal, sure, but the questions he asks are fair, and what's more, the banter between him and whoever he's interviewing is funny and unbiased. Michael Moore's questions are ALWAYS loaded, ALWAYS condescending, and ALWAYS filled with contempt for anyone who either isn't Michael Moore or anyone who doesn't believe Michael Moore is the next Messiah come to earth. distasteful..


--------------------
i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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Anonymous

Re: Michael Moore's DWMC - a review [Re: waterbug]
    #2224189 - 01/06/04 10:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Michael Moore is one of the only people in this country that I trust at all.

:oogle:


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Offlined33p
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Re: Michael Moore's DWMC - a review [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #2224404 - 01/06/04 11:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Monkey the slaying of the 6 year old was in Rowland which is different from columbine but yet another instance when Moore took a stab at the NRA.

And by the way monkey the NRA meeting in denver shortly after the columbine shooting was required by law. but of course Moore forgot to say that right..............


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Offlinedaba
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Re: Michael Moore's DWMC - a review [Re: Sclorch]
    #2224422 - 01/06/04 11:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Michael Moore came to speak in the Greek Theatre at UC Berkeley.

He was paid $14,000 to do it, and his DWMC was $25 a copy.
I paid my $10 to hear him.

Other than that, I am impartial to him.


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Offlined33p
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Re: Michael Moore's DWMC - a review [Re: daba]
    #2224457 - 01/07/04 12:18 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hrmmmmm half an 1/8 of miami's best nugs or a copy of DWMC.

I still can't understand why i didnt pick up the book.


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OfflineSlapnutRob
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Re: Michael Moore's DWMC - a review [Re: d33p]
    #2224716 - 01/07/04 01:52 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I am a Michael Moore fan. Read Stupid White Men, loved it. Haven't read Dude, Where's my Country. I'd like to point out that I don't think there's any hypocrisy in him being an NRA member. You claim that he "degrades the NRA." In Bowling for Columbine, he goes after Heston for holding his rallies where and when he did, and he asked him some tough questions. Heston had his chance to fuck up Moore's plans, but instead he walked off, and handed Moore the climax of his film.

I think Moore should be applauded for dispelling the liberal myth (one that I, of course a liberal, used to subscribe to) that guns and/or poverty is the problem. He argues a less mainstream idea in this film.... that our culture of fear is the problem.

I think the vast majority of you who were turned off by Bowling for Columbine (GREAT film) just didn't want to give it a chance.

Shizpow, you act like Moore was trying to make some "OMG! How unsafe!" point with the opening scene in which he gets the gun. Somehow I didn't get that. I thought it was for comedic value over anything else. And about the old man "with alzheimer's". Did he ever say that guy had alzheimer's? And did he really treat him like shit? You must have been watching a different movie than I.

Quote:

Michael Moore's questions are ALWAYS loaded, ALWAYS condescending, and ALWAYS filled with contempt for anyone who either isn't Michael Moore or anyone who doesn't believe Michael Moore is the next Messiah come to earth. distasteful..



I see no evidence of anything like this going on.

I hear all this buzz about Bowling for Columbine being so deceptive, and so liberal, but if that were true it seems to me that he would be arguing something more liberal... not that "fear" is the problem, which is a very friendly idea with conservative models of an "attack dog" media in which it leads if it bleeds.

Michael Moore isn't my favorite populust author. I'm a much bigger fan of Al Franken (much funnier and definitely smarter) and especially Greg Palast (who Michael Moore gets a lot of stuff from, particularly the 2000 election stuff in Stupid White Men). Nonetheless, Moore's fighting the good fight in my eyes. Thumbs up to anyone who's for the people, not the corporations.


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Offlined33p
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Re: Michael Moore's DWMC - a review [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #2224766 - 01/07/04 02:13 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well i never said he was was being a hypocrite about him being in the NRA. The movie seems strange to me in that he seems to change his viewpoint on guns a few times. He first makes it seem as though the guns themselves are the problem and then later makes it seem as if the american mentality is the problem. He doesnt make it clear whether is taking a very personal narrating tone in the movie or a more balanced documentary type position. He tries to apeal to more than one audience. Also he says the heston interview is uncut but there is supositly some clock in the shot were 5 minutes pass yet only 30 secs remain in the movie. Also where he set up buys or faked some shoots. But who knows its half speculation a guess.

And i completely agree that Bowling was a great film or movie i just didnt like it winning an oscar for a cadegory it really didnt belong in. Its no doubt that moore uses his narratration in a persuasive manner with decieving info. This just doesnt fit the standards for an oscar.

i mean i love al franken and i find him very funny but i just take most of what he says with a grain of salt just like jon stewart. Now Moore should be treated like this yet instand they gave him an oscar documentary.

I mean the movie was great and funny and entaining and all but then it won an oscar for documentary and Moore was acting all serious. wtf?

Sorry for any mistakes due to inebriation


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
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Re: Michael Moore's DWMC - a review [Re: d33p]
    #2224922 - 01/07/04 03:46 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Well i never said he was was being a hypocrite about him being in the NRA. The movie seems strange to me in that he seems to change his viewpoint on guns a few times. He first makes it seem as though the guns themselves are the problem and then later makes it seem as if the american mentality is the problem. He doesnt make it clear whether is taking a very personal narrating tone in the movie or a more balanced documentary type position




He is exploring theories throughout the movie, first he talks about guns in general and dispels it by showing that he himself is a member of the NRA and that Canada has as many guns per capita. He talks to the guy(forget his name) who wrote a book about the culture of fear in America and that guy talks about his book and theories. He even toys with the idea that bowling was the reason for Columbine. He poses a lot of questions, ones that the viewer has to answer on their own. He has already dispelled the rumours and accusations set ups( or at least explained what the rumours were about, essentially dispelling them. Like asking the bank if a camera crew would be allowed to join him, that's not a setup.) People get mad at what they conclude on their own at the end of this movie. Otherwise people would actually attack what he says instead of saying he makes it up(again, dispelled) or is a fat asshole.


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