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ZeroBoyWD
Zombie



Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 460
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Blah Blah Blah Blah
#21877029 - 06/30/15 08:41 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Howdy. Feels great to be back in the Shroomery after several years. Now that the pleasantries are behind us, lets get right down to brass tacks. To preface though, I'm on my second bottle of Cabernet and I may tend to ramble.
Ok, so after happenstance got some cubes in my system for the first time in years I ended up getting some spores on a drunken whim. When I found some wide mouth half pints INSIDE a store, I knew it was meant to be.
Ya see, the last time I went through this I rushed in half cocked. Full pint jars, poor sterilization, some mutant hybrid between the PMP and SGFC. Lessons were learned, oh yes I learned (The whole point of this hobby right?) I used three syringes to shoot up 8 pints, lost half my stock to contaminates and still ended up with a respectable 17g all said and done (Fuck you, it was respectable to people who thought I couldn't do it)
This time I did things differently. I didn't bother making a glove box, last time I ended up stabbing myself through my gloves. This time I sterilized the shit out of the bathroom with Lysol, brought in my pot holding my sterilized jars, rubbed everything down with 70% Iso and used a torch lighter to sterilize my needle between injections.
I am amazed with my results. I don't have a large steamer pot so I had to do my jars in two batches. I also wanted to stretch my syringe a little farther and leave the option to make some LC after the fact, so I only used three injection sites instead of 4. The first batch of 5 was inoculated 13 days ago and is at 95% colonization, the second batch 12 days ago and is between 70-80% colonized.
What strikes me as so incredible is how brazen I was about inoculating in open air and yet the rapid colonization has taken hold without any sign of contaminates. I used a pressure cooker last time and lost half my stock and this time I just boiled my jars for two hours. But still, questions arise.
************************* QUERY: With only a days worth of difference between batches, why did my first batch colonize faster, with expected completion at 14-17 days, while my second group seems to be moving a bit slower, expected completion at 17-20 days? *************************
Nonetheless, the next stage is upon me. Birth is less than a week away, and I must make some decisions.
************************* QUERY: Should I dunk and roll my cakes directly after birth or wait until the first flush is done? *************************
My gut instinct tells me that, yes, I should dunk and roll.... The last time I went through this I did no dunk and roll at any point (We still thought the PMP was viable! Give me a little slack!) and saw a definite slow down in growth that at the time I attributed to a low humidity. But given that I went from somewhere in the low 20g range wet and dried to 17, I think dehydration was more the issue than humidity. But let me explain why I believed humidity to be the problem.
At the time I was living in pretty rugged conditions. I didn't even own a drill (how could I call myself a man) so when I made a brutish attempt at a SGFC I used a hot nail to punch holes all through my container. Having made a proper one this time, I can look back and say with a good deal of certainty that the diameter of the holes was much less than the recommended 1/4". I ended up throwing a couple airstones in the bottom of the tote and it seemed to push my humidity where it needed to be.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ TECH SPECIFIC QUERY: My room maintains a temperature between 75-80°F and a standing RH of 40-45%. Is a properly made SGFC enough to maintain the humidity needed inside the chamber? My chamber measures 22L x 13W x 12H and I intend to fill it with 5" of perlite (slightly less than half the container.) $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Its amazing how much easier this stuff gets once you really get into it. So much fascination and intrigue and more questions.... That further understanding is more rewarding than the yield.
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caveman421
Horticulturist


Registered: 05/04/15
Posts: 64
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Blah [Re: ZeroBoyWD]
#21877055 - 06/30/15 08:51 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Since you already made a sgfc, spawn your jars to bulk in a Tupperware container and throw it in there. Nothing fancy, just some coir from petsmart and vermiculite.
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ZeroBoyWD
Zombie



Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 460
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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No PC. That would be an issue wouldn't it? I've never done a bulk before, just PF. Are the yields really that much higher?
Edited by ZeroBoyWD (06/30/15 10:38 AM)
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Blah [Re: ZeroBoyWD]
#21877412 - 06/30/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ZeroBoyWD said: No PC. That would be an issue wouldnt it?
No you pasteurize bulk substrates by heating them to between 150f and 170f for at least an hour. No pressure cooker needed. I usually put my bulk into plastic myco bags and heat on the stove in a pot of water. Works perfect every time.
Some people use damions bucket tek, but this is not a true pasteurization.
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,536
Loc: Taiwan
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Quote:
natedawgnow said:
Quote:
ZeroBoyWD said: No PC. That would be an issue wouldnt it?
No you pasteurize bulk substrates by heating them to between 150f and 170f for at least an hour.
140-160f for no more than 1 hour
-------------------- (Yes, the egg is real)
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Blah [Re: FriedEgg]
#21877438 - 06/30/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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to each their own. I've pasteurized for longer than an hour with no adverse effects whatsoever.
And 170 is perfectly safe. Any higher and you near sterilization temps.
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Edited by natedawgnow (06/30/15 10:31 AM)
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,536
Loc: Taiwan
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probably luck. it also depends on your substrate. if you are sterilizing coir you'll probably be ok. but manure won't be as forgiving. over the long run you'll have more success if you properly pasteurize instead of partially sterilize.
-------------------- (Yes, the egg is real)
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Blah [Re: FriedEgg]
#21877480 - 06/30/15 10:41 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ya you're right, coir is pretty forgiving. I would never recommend getting it over 170, but if you hit 170 you'll be fine. Any higher and you start to sterilize but I always shoot for between 150 and 170 just to be sure. Especially when working with manure. I usually aim for 160 dead on.
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ZeroBoyWD
Zombie



Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 460
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Blah [Re: FriedEgg]
#21877484 - 06/30/15 10:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well my first move is going to be liquid culture. I don't trust myself to hit this thing right on the first try and I wanna have something to start over with.
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,536
Loc: Taiwan
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Blah [Re: ZeroBoyWD]
#21877500 - 06/30/15 10:47 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ZeroBoyWD said: Well my first move is going to be liquid culture. I don't trust myself to hit this thing right on the first try and I wanna have something to start over with.
if it's your first try, i wouldn't recommend starting with LC. start with grains or BRF cakes.
-------------------- (Yes, the egg is real)
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Blah [Re: ZeroBoyWD]
#21877503 - 06/30/15 10:47 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ZeroBoyWD said: Well my first move is going to be liquid culture. I don't trust myself to hit this thing right on the first try and I wanna have something to start over with.
If thats what you are worried about, then screw LC. Get some agar and make yourself some clean inoculant. Lc is a good way to waste the remainder of your spores
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caveman421
Horticulturist


Registered: 05/04/15
Posts: 64
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
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Dude, find a coir tek and read it. That shit is damn near sailor proof. People do it in a 5 gal bucket all the time... without pasteurization! Don't be afraid to raise your ph to 9. The myc can handle it but contamination cant. Here is Frank's coir method. I am not Frank. You should thank Frank. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17325780#17325780
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Grey
⇜ ✯ ⇝



Registered: 11/06/14
Posts: 6,223
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I sterilize my coir, in my PC, all the time. The bucket tek will work. I only pasteurize straw and poo.
Bulk in general does give you better results. If you don't have a PC, crumble some brf cakes to a tray or tub and mix with a bulk substrate. Coir is an incredibly easy starting point for bulk substrates.
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AMU Q&A If you don't have a plan of your own, you'll become a part of somebody else's.
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ZeroBoyWD
Zombie



Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 460
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Quote:
caveman421 said: Dude, find a coir tek and read it. That shit is damn near sailor proof. People do it in a 5 gal bucket all the time... without pasteurization! http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17325780#17325780
Are you saying it can be done without any sterilization of the coir? I've never done a bulk grow so I'm pretty clueless here, but that still sounds dubious.
Can anyone explain to me why the gypsum is important? Its doable but a bit of a drive if I'm gonna pick it up in the next few days.
OK but assuming I follow Frank's bucket tek, I mix the stuff up, take a few cakes and crumble them into a tray (thinking like a seedling started tray?) and then just fill the rest with my bulk substrate. Sound good?
How much additional time can I expect to add from using this method and are the yields seriously that much more impressive?
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caveman421
Horticulturist


Registered: 05/04/15
Posts: 64
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Blah [Re: ZeroBoyWD]
#21882112 - 07/01/15 09:19 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Coir is Pretty contamination resistant, however I adjust my ph to about 9, as I stated above the contams don't do well at that ph. Gypsum is optional. You want your substrate 3-4 in thick. The more spawn you use the faster it will colonize, I generally use 2-4 parts bulk to 1 part spawn and see pins in about 10-14 days. And yes yields are that much better. More substrate = more available nutrients, bigger mycelium network, and more mushies. But don't take my word for it, spend 20 bucks and give it a try!
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ZeroBoyWD
Zombie



Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 460
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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You know I just might =) A couple of the jars in my second batch seem to have stalled out, I may excise the material and then crumble them into a case. So I'm looking at mixing 2.5 pints of crumbled cakes to 5 pints of coir/verm mix.
What is your preferred method for raising the ph? Do you adjust it in the water before mixing the coir up or do you mix in a pinch of limestone when stirring the mix?
Thanks, btw, for the advice, I'm a bit outta my depth when it comes to anything past PF Tek. Super excited to try this though.
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Juiceh
Dabbing All Day



Registered: 09/25/12
Posts: 3,208
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Blah [Re: ZeroBoyWD]
#21882351 - 07/01/15 10:32 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ZeroBoyWD said: and used a torch lighter to sterilize my needle between injections.
This is probably why you had better luck this time around.
Quote:
ZeroBoyWD said:I didn't even own a drill (how could I call myself a man)
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ZeroBoyWD
Zombie



Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 460
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Blah [Re: Juiceh]
#21882783 - 07/01/15 12:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I also wiped my syringe down with 91% ISO, especially around the cap. I think that made a huge difference. Also, not sticking yourself with the needle on accident is a plus.
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,536
Loc: Taiwan
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Blah [Re: ZeroBoyWD]
#21884028 - 07/01/15 05:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ZeroBoyWD said: I also wiped my syringe down with 91% ISO, especially around the cap. I think that made a huge difference. Also, not sticking yourself with the needle on accident is a plus.
if wiping your syringe with alcohol, be careful while flaming the needle. my whole hand caught on fire a few times this way.
-------------------- (Yes, the egg is real)
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ZeroBoyWD
Zombie



Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 460
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Blah Blah Blah Blah [Re: FriedEgg]
#21884066 - 07/01/15 06:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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LOL thats great. I mean, thats terrible. Just a damp wipe rubbed across did the trick, but good advice.
Always use caution when working with combustibles
-------------------- I'm done trying to be "right." I want the exchange of ideas to be the currency of my economy. If you have something I can use, great. I'll try it out. If you think my methods are shit, great. Don't use it. We all want yields.
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