Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery

Kratom Eye
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: MagicBag.co Certified Organic All-In-One Grow Bags, Contam-Resistant All-In-One Grow Bags   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
Dear atheists, Pascal's Wager?
    #21481492 -

This is more directed towards atheists... But I essentially just want to hear your opinions on Pascal's Wager...

I find it very hard for me to just believe, but I would definitely like to as I agree with Pascal in that belief in God might be the most rational approach. I tend to think this way in terms of free will VS determinism as well (i.e. it is rational to behave and belief as if we have free will).


--------------------
"a note for asses: what is very convincing, is not necessarily true - it is merely convincing"

primus------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------mama didn't raise no fool

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Dear atheists, Pascal's Wager? [Re: unsui888]
    #21481828 -

What if God preferred people who didn't believe in God to those who believed in a false one?


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Dear atheists, Pascal's Wager? [Re: viktor]
    #21482363 -

pascal's wager in itself seems poor ground for belief in god.. it could be used to justify the belief in any thing where the consequences are bad for not believing in the thing

i would say i am agnostic, i dont find the question of god particularly interesting


--------------------
dripping with fantasy

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Dear atheists, Pascal's Wager? [Re: unsui888] * 1
    #21482916 -

Pascal's wager is dumb. He frames it as a 2 choice option: to believe in the Christian God or not. However, it doesn't take into consideration that there are 100s of 1000s of different beliefs in god (>10,000 christian denominations alone) and many claim they are the one and only truth and if you pick another truth you're damned forever, so it becomes an impossible guessing game of picking the right 1 instead of the either or situation that Pascal proposed. Furthermore, basing ones beliefs on fear alone is kind of lame.

I could make a similar wager about aliens that if you believed in them they will take you to their home planet and gift you with immortality, but if you don't they will abduct you and anally probe you. I could make tons of similar fantasy wagers. Does that mean the most rational thing is to believe in a bunch of BS just in case? Seems highly irrational and paranoid to me.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Dear atheists, Pascal's Wager? [Re: White Beard]
    #21483371 -

^I like the point you make WB.

Instead of limiting it to belief in the Judeo-Christian God, I was thinking more along the lines of just believing in some divine power. But then we are still in trouble because this divine power might be the Judeo-Christian God, and want you to believe in a precise way.

Perhaps Pascal's Wager is better applied to free-will and determinism when there is less at stake...


--------------------
"a note for asses: what is very convincing, is not necessarily true - it is merely convincing"

primus------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------mama didn't raise no fool

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Dear atheists, Pascal's Wager? [Re: unsui888]
    #21483387 -

What is God? to most it is something believed in but not experienced if at best only glimpsed. Therefore God is dogma. However the true nature of God is one with science, hence why enlightened extra-terrestrials have a direct relationship with God through Spirit. The science of Spirit is meditation and the various practices that cultivate spirituality.

How much of the major religions is just dogma however? You rarely see a Christian fret over whether or not they serve Allah properly, why?


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Dear atheists, Pascal's Wager? [Re: leery11] * 1
    #21484781 -

White Beard's approach to the question has long been part of my thinking on the subject of Pascal's Wager; that of the false dichotomy that it presents. It is also worth pointing out that this exercise in thought is a non sequitur when it comes to placing belief in whatever diety you apply it to, presumably the god of Abrahamic religion. If a rationalist approach is used in approaching the god question, it seems that a non-delusional subject who is not exposed to dogma and childhood indoctrination should invariably come to the conclusion that withholding belief in god is rational (sorry if this is seen as abrasive). If then it turns out that an omnipotent, benevolent, omniscient god does exist, and he would damn one to hell to burn in a lake of fire eternally for honestly being unable to find any sound evidence for His existence during life, I would question your definition of benevolence, and whether your god is worthy of my worship.

Props to the Shroomery for being one of the few places on the internet where a religious discussion can take place without fuckwad trolls and flame wars.:thumbup: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"We don't think
You understand."

We don't think;
You understand?


Edited by iamjimmeh (03/31/15 07:06 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Dear atheists, Pascal's Wager? [Re: iamjimmeh]
    #21486785 -

personally I'm a fan of the Epicurean paradox.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”


--------------------
Live Mythically


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Dear atheists, Pascal's Wager? [Re: Bjorn_Stormcrow]
    #21486828 -

Ulfrick said:
personally I'm a fan of the Epicurean paradox.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”


As I am. But then one could argue, "What would be the point, if there were no free will, to do as one pleases?"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Dear atheists, Pascal's Wager? [Re: Uzziel]
    #21487050 -

Uzziel said:
Ulfrick said:
personally I'm a fan of the Epicurean paradox.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”


As I am. But then one could argue, "What would be the point, if there were no free will, to do as one pleases?"


Who says that a god needs to be omnipotent? in fact the only one that I can think of that NEEDS to be omnipotent and pure good in order to be real (or the entire premise of the religion falls apart) is the abrahamic one. Pretty much every other religion seemed to be pretty okay with the idea of gods not being able to do everything, fix every problem, or in fact even be good people.


--------------------
Live Mythically


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Dear atheists, Pascal's Wager? [Re: Bjorn_Stormcrow]
    #21489090 -

Ulfrick said:
Who says that a god needs to be omnipotent? in fact the only one that I can think of that NEEDS to be omnipotent and pure good in order to be real (or the entire premise of the religion falls apart) is the abrahamic one. Pretty much every other religion seemed to be pretty okay with the idea of gods not being able to do everything, fix every problem, or in fact even be good people.



I've been wondering about this for a long time.  Great point.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Dear atheists, Pascal's Wager? [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #21489154 -

i find it strange how people literally think of god as a legitimate being. I think of it more as the deep connection between everything, kind of like a mysterious force


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Dear atheists, Pascal's Wager? [Re: unsui888]
    #21499208 -

unsui888 said:
This is more directed towards atheists... But I essentially just want to hear your opinions on Pascal's Wager...

I find it very hard for me to just believe, but I would definitely like to as I agree with Pascal in that belief in God might be the most rational approach. I tend to think this way in terms of free will VS determinism as well (i.e. it is rational to behave and belief as if we have free will).


Pascal's Wager would work if there was only one God with only one true set of commandments.  As is, we're faced with hundreds of "True and Holy Words from the One and Real God."  So basically, if you follow one set of commandments to avoid Hell then you're faced with Hell from the other hundreds of other religions on Earth.

/basically, erroneous logic FTL. Besides, any God that would accept anyone into Heaven who used a logical argument to try to attain paradise instead of Hell rather than simply being righteous for righteousness' sake seems like a God I would not want to follow in the first place.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Dear atheists, Pascal's Wager? [Re: deCypher]
    #21499352 -

I'd like to invert Pascal's Wager.  What if this life is it.  Shouldn't we live it to the fullest extent possible?  If there is an infinite or finite afterlife shouldn't we deal with it then instead of wasting our time now in this life?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Dear atheists, Pascal's Wager? [Re: ToiletPaper]
    #21512602 -

This has already been hit on, but my response is, which god?


--------------------
The life of a condemned soul is hatred.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Dear atheists, Pascal's Wager? [Re: Krazent] * 1
    #21516784 -

Krazent said:
I think of it more as the deep connection between everything, kind of like a mysterious force


Yeah, It is...It IS Awareness though too...It is Existence.

We are in It and It in us...fucking amazing...:stoned:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Dear atheists, Pascal's Wager? [Re: Ayah]
    #21517927 -

yeahh dude


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: MagicBag.co Certified Organic All-In-One Grow Bags, Contam-Resistant All-In-One Grow Bags   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Pascals Wager
( 1 2 all )		 CapZilla 2,140 34 02/15/10 04:51 PM
by Icelander
* Pascal's Wager
( 1 2 3 4 all )		 it stars saddam 5,028 65 03/07/06 09:57 PM
by SkorpivoMusterion
* Fellow Atheists / Agnostics
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )		 Atheist 9,840 97 08/31/07 02:51 PM
by RedNucleus
* Pascal's Wager from an Atheistic Perspective
( 1 2 all )		 it stars saddam 4,600 39 03/17/07 03:35 PM
by vigilant_mind
* Pascal's wager and a counter wager. AlphaFalfa 1,489 11 08/31/10 06:03 PM
by AlphaFalfa
* Agnostics and atheists will you succumb just before the end?
( 1 2 all )		 Scarfmeister 3,714 25 04/23/03 06:18 PM
by CeeEssGee
* Solipsism
( 1 2 all )		 jonathanseagull 3,066 23 10/07/08 03:17 PM
by ExplosiveMango
* Famous Atheist Now Believes in God
( 1 2 3 all )		 EgoTripping 5,797 58 12/13/04 04:18 AM
by Diploid

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
976 topic views. 1 members, 3 guests and 45 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.033 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 14 queries.