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Re: The term [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #21205527 -

SeaShrooms said:
The topic of discussion, which I set, is that white privilege is a racist term. I never made any other claims besides that, I actually agreed with others that rap music may not be the cause of negros awful behaviour. Also, a lot of what I just replied wasn't to you.


You made plenty of claims besides that one.


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Re: The term [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21206004 -

Quote:
Before we get into external forces, I want seashrooms and psyconaught to admit they have zero evidence for their claim.


what claim do you think I'm making exactly?


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Think for yourself, question authority

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Re: The term [Re: psyconaught]
    #21206062 -

That there is any reason at all to believe that genetics specific to one (or some) race(s) is a determining factor in criminality.


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Re: The term [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21206180 -

We have determined scientifically, genetics may affect behaviour. No research has been done about these things because of political correctness, if research looked into the negroes rampant criminality, it might be very interesting.


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The life of a condemned soul is hatred.

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Re: The term [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #21206248 -

SeaShrooms said:
I never made any other claims besides that, I actually agreed with others that rap music may not be the cause of negros awful behaviour.


I'm a bit confused because two posts above this one you said:

Quote:
So couple things, I never said genetics has to do with blacks being violent, I said it's rap music.


Rather contradictory wouldn't you say. And can you provide evidence to support that claim?

SeaShrooms said:
We have determined scientifically, genetics may affect behaviour. No research has been done about these things because of political correctness, if research looked into the negroes rampant criminality, it might be very interesting.


Unless you have more evidence than the one study you already posted, what you say here doesn't hold any water. Once again, the study you posted suggests that genetics are involved in 5-10% of severe violent crime in Finland. Since Finland is obviously genetically different than the blacks in America, it's very difficult to draw any comparisons. It also makes NO determinations about any other type of crime and still only applies to a very small percentage of crime committed. Finally, as far as I could tell, they didn't look at what percentage of the population with differences in those two genes actually commit severe violent crime; without that, you cannot claim that genetics cause the crime, merely that they may play a role. Quite simply, the study does not show anything that you want it to. Unless you have another one to provide, quit trying to draw comparisons where they don't exist. The connection is extremely fuzzy at best and possibly non-existent.

Also, you're wrong. Studies are being done on genetics and criminality. I haven't read those, but perhaps you can find some evidence for your claims by reading through them. Then again, perhaps you might also find that your claim doesn't have any evidence to support it.


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DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: The term [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21206305 -

Nice strawman argument first off.

Secondly I proposed rap music as a possible cause and agreed I may be wrong.


Lastly a 5-10% correlation is statistically significant to say it should be an area of future research.


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The life of a condemned soul is hatred.

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Re: The term [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #21206336 -

How can you say with a straight face that 5-10% is significant of a study of 1000 people? So I'm supposed to make something out of 50 Finnish criminals having similar genetic makeup?


And then in the same breath shrug off the much much higher correlation of poverty and crime.


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Re: The term [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21206356 -

You must not really understand statistics very well, also the article says that the highest severity and frequency of offenses was with the genetically predisposed group.


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The life of a condemned soul is hatred.

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Re: The term [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #21206359 -

SeaShrooms said:
Nice strawman argument first off.



What strawman argument did I make?

Quote:
Lastly a 5-10% correlation is statistically significant to say it should be an area of future research.


First of all, it isn't a 5-10% correlation. It's a correlation with 5-10% of a very specific type of crime in a very specific population. Second, lots of research has already been done, contrary to what you said. Therefore, if the correlation exists, presumably you could find some evidence for it. You have yet to present any evidence suggesting that genetics play a role in overall criminality, let alone that they are the CAUSE of criminal behavior.


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DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: The term [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #21206366 -

SeaShrooms said:
You must not really understand statistics very well, also the article says that the highest severity and frequency of offenses was with the genetically predisposed group.


The question that needs answered, however, is how many people who are genetically predisposed actually go on to commit sever violent crime. If less than 1% of people who have this genetic mutation go on to commit crime, than the link really isn't there.


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DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: The term [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21206379 -

Read my posts again, and try to understand them, I'm not your babysitter, and my tolerance for illogical bullshit is wearing thin.


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The life of a condemned soul is hatred.

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Re: The term [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #21206419 -

Brilliant rebuttal :lol:

It's not illogical bullshit, it's called understanding what a study is actually presenting. I work in academic and industrial research, and have worked in a number of different research areas. For my work I have had to read literally hundreds, if not thousands of papers. You have to be extremely careful when drawing conclusions from them, because they typically make very specific claims.

Notice how the paper doesn't say 5-10% of all crime is due to those to genes. They imply that 5-10% of severe violent crime in Finnish populations, may be linked to genetic factors. It's a very different claim. You cannot infer the former from that paper.

If you want to draw a link between genetics and crime, several studies have already been published. Why don't you read them and see if the correlation exists?


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DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: The term [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21206424 -

I wanna make one thing clear, I'm not making an affirmative or negative claim about rap music, or about genetics, I'm saying it's an area of research, that due to the political climate, is not often pursued.


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The life of a condemned soul is hatred.

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Re: The term [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #21206454 -

SeaShrooms said:
I wanna make one thing clear, I'm not making an affirmative or negative claim about...genetics


Quote:
Secondly, we asserted scientifically that genetics has to do with violent behaviour, to recap.


Quote:
Truly interesting stuff, science is really leaning in the direction that criminal brains just function differently than other peoples.



You have made plenty of affirmative claims; you haven't supported any of them.


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DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: The term [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #21206470 -

SeaShrooms said:
I wanna make one thing clear



Well, that's a start.


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Re: The term [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21206478 -

BoldAsLove said:
SeaShrooms said:
Read my posts again, and try to understand them, I'm not your babysitter, and my tolerance for illogical bullshit is wearing thin.


Brilliant rebuttal :lol:

It's not illogical bullshit, it's called understanding what a study is actually presenting.


Exactly.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The term [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21206516 -

The study showed there may be a correlation, I'm sorry it threatens your world view so dramatically you have to try and pretend it doesn't exist.

Also, you can quote me all I want, but I am clarifying my point, if all you can do is take my statements out of context and strawman me, maybe you should quit talking.


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The life of a condemned soul is hatred.

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Re: The term [Re: SeaShrooms] * 1
    #21206549 -

SeaShrooms said:
The study showed there may be a correlation, I'm sorry it threatens your world view so dramatically you have to try and pretend it doesn't exist.




The study did not show there may be a correlation between genetics and all crime. The study did not show there may be a correlation between crime and genetics in black populations. The study did not show that people who have those genetic mutations are more likely to commit crimes.

I'm sorry that the paper doesn't show anything you want it to, but please stop trying to pretend that it does.

Quote:
Also, you can quote me all I want, but I am clarifying my point, if all you can do is take my statements out of context and strawman me, maybe you should quit talking.


Nothing was quoted out of context. You'll have to forgive me for reading posts where you make certain claims and thinking that you meant to make those claims. How ridiculous of me!


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DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: The term [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21206576 -

Nice strawman :rolleyes:



:drgonz:


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Re: The term [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21207201 -

The Ecstatic said:
Webster10 said:
You seemed sure the environment was the only factor a few pages ago.


The only factor that accounts for differences amongst the races.

You and Shins are trying to have two parallel arguments and neither of you can help crisscrossing them.


What am I arguing?

I've only said blacks on average commit more crimes and we don't know why.


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:leaf: :usa:

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General Interest > Political Discussion
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