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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Proof of Heaven * 2
    #21077351 -

In the forward to this book by a neurosurgeon who had an NDE: "Proof of Heaven" is more than just an awe-inspiring account of a profound encounter with spiritual reality. Dr. Alexander’s neuroscience career taught him that near-death experiences are brain-based illusions, and yet his personal experience left him dumbstruck.

Before his experience he thought an NDE was a brain-based illusion. Interesting that this PhD does not know what an illusion is. An illusion to the experiencer is indistinguishable from reality.

After his NDE he believed his personal illusion to be reality. Funny how that works.

As a scientist, he also fails to understand the distinction between proof and anecdote. If he had proof the debate would forever be over.

Just another person cashing in on the fear of death. Ice would be proud.


--------------------

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Re: Proof of Heaven [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #21077381 -

Indeed


--------------------
Did you not know that the royal hunting grounds are always forbidden?

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Re: Proof of Heaven *DELETED* [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #21077465 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: No reason.

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Re: Proof of Heaven [Re: Lakefingers] * 3
    #21077812 -

Our current paradigm completely disempowers and disregards individual experience. It's a lot to leave out.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

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Re: Proof of Heaven [Re: circastes] * 2
    #21078320 -

what are you talking about?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Proof of Heaven [Re: MushroomTrip] * 2
    #21078336 -

I don't think he knows

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Re: Proof of Heaven [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #21078492 -

I had a pretty awesome dream last night. Had a very surprising ending, difficult to remember what it all was.

It's pretty weird that dreams can be surprising. It doesn't prove anything that they are, it is odd though, isn't it?

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Re: Proof of Heaven [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #21078558 -


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Re: Proof of Heaven [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #21080158 -

My family have been bringing up these stories lately, I know what they are up to, makes me mad. Then again, I believe it is kind of typical for TBs to lose their faith on their death beds and for Atheists to find god near death. I'd put money on OC finding god on his death bed.

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Re: Proof of Heaven [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #21080704 -

Even if this Doc had legit experience he'd only be able to describe it with the descriptors he had already learned. If he was Aboriginal he would describe it like an Aboriginal. Maybe if he was a quantum physicist he would describe this extra dimensional space mathematically and all the atheists would cheer!

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Re: Proof of Heaven [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #21080799 -

I remember seeing an episode of Penn and Teller: Bullshit where they explained how NDE's are a biological process for when the brain is deprived of oxygen. They had a bunch of fighter pilots on who all had "NDE"s from fainting in one of those centrifuge-type things they spin in to simulate high-speed maneuvers. Apparently it's fairly common for the pilots to experience some sort of "NDE" like hallucinations after losing consciousness, which is plenty of proof for me that all these harrowing stories you hear of people meeting God on the operating table are no more than wishful thinking.

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Re: Proof of Heaven [Re: Kilgore Trout]
    #21081076 -

check THIS out:

Quote:
First hint of 'life after death' in biggest ever scientific study

...The largest ever medical study into near-death and out-of-body experiences has discovered that some awareness may continue even after the brain has shut down completely...

But scientists at the University of Southampton have spent four years examining more than 2,000 people who suffered cardiac arrests at 15 hospitals in the UK, US and Austria.

And they found that nearly 40 per cent of people who survived described some kind of ‘awareness’ during the time when they were clinically dead before their hearts were restarted.

One man even recalled leaving his body entirely and watching his resuscitation from the corner of the room.

Despite being unconscious and ‘dead’ for three minutes, the 57-year-old social worker from Southampton, recounted the actions of the nursing staff in detail and described the sound of the machines.

“We know the brain can’t function when the heart has stopped beating,” said Dr Sam Parnia, a former research fellow at Southampton University, now at the State University of New York, who led the study.

“But in this case, conscious awareness appears to have continued for up to three minutes into the period when the heart wasn’t beating, even though the brain typically shuts down within 20-30 seconds after the heart has stopped.

“The man described everything that had happened in the room, but importantly, he heard two bleeps from a machine that makes a noise at three minute intervals. So we could time how long the experienced lasted for.

“He seemed very credible and everything that he said had happened to him had actually happened.”  ...Dr Parnia believes many more people may have experiences when they are close to death but drugs or sedatives used in the process of rescuitation may stop them remembering. .. “Many people have assumed that these were hallucinations or illusions but they do seem to corresponded to actual events.

“And a higher proportion of people may have vivid death experiences, but do not recall them due to the effects of brain injury or sedative drugs on memory circuits.

“These experiences warrant further investigation. “

... “There is some very good evidence here that these experiences are actually happening after people have medically died.

“We just don’t know what is going on. We are still very much in the dark about what happens when you die and hopefully this study will help shine a scientific lens onto that.”

The study was published in the journal Resuscitation.

Dr Jerry Nolan, Editor-in-Chief at Resuscitation said: “Dr Parnia and his colleagues are to be congratulated on the completion of a fascinating study that will open the door to more extensive research into what happens when we die.”



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Re: Proof of Heaven [Re: zzripz]
    #21081842 -

Interesting shit. Thought I might pipe in here.

I went to church with this guy and his wife when I was a kid well they both ended up getting murdered in their home.

Every time after that incident when I saw a picture of this guy it seemed like he was right in front of me and I would get horrible chills down my spine.

Well about a year after that happened I met this other guy. He always was hitting me up for greens. Every time I was around this guy I felt compelled to talk about these two people that were murdered with him and it wasn't something I normally discussed with anyone so even I found it a little strange but I didn't think much of it.

Eventually that guy that I'm talking about turned himself in for the murder of these two people.

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Re: Proof of Heaven [Re: DrRedBush]
    #21082033 -

WO that is really creepy! When you say 'greens' you mean ganja?

HOW did you meet him?

What were his reasons for murdering them? Have you found out? And is this reported anywhere I can have a look?

Edited by zzripz (01/07/15 11:31 AM)

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Re: Proof of Heaven [Re: zzripz]
    #21082775 -

zzripz said:
check THIS out:

Quote:
First hint of 'life after death' in biggest ever scientific study

...The largest ever medical study into near-death and out-of-body experiences has discovered that some awareness may continue even after the brain has shut down completely...

But scientists at the University of Southampton have spent four years examining more than 2,000 people who suffered cardiac arrests at 15 hospitals in the UK, US and Austria.

And they found that nearly 40 per cent of people who survived described some kind of ‘awareness’ during the time when they were clinically dead before their hearts were restarted.

One man even recalled leaving his body entirely and watching his resuscitation from the corner of the room.

Despite being unconscious and ‘dead’ for three minutes, the 57-year-old social worker from Southampton, recounted the actions of the nursing staff in detail and described the sound of the machines.

“We know the brain can’t function when the heart has stopped beating,” said Dr Sam Parnia, a former research fellow at Southampton University, now at the State University of New York, who led the study.

“But in this case, conscious awareness appears to have continued for up to three minutes into the period when the heart wasn’t beating, even though the brain typically shuts down within 20-30 seconds after the heart has stopped.

“The man described everything that had happened in the room, but importantly, he heard two bleeps from a machine that makes a noise at three minute intervals. So we could time how long the experienced lasted for.

“He seemed very credible and everything that he said had happened to him had actually happened.”  ...Dr Parnia believes many more people may have experiences when they are close to death but drugs or sedatives used in the process of rescuitation may stop them remembering. .. “Many people have assumed that these were hallucinations or illusions but they do seem to corresponded to actual events.

“And a higher proportion of people may have vivid death experiences, but do not recall them due to the effects of brain injury or sedative drugs on memory circuits.

“These experiences warrant further investigation. “

... “There is some very good evidence here that these experiences are actually happening after people have medically died.

“We just don’t know what is going on. We are still very much in the dark about what happens when you die and hopefully this study will help shine a scientific lens onto that.”

The study was published in the journal Resuscitation.

Dr Jerry Nolan, Editor-in-Chief at Resuscitation said: “Dr Parnia and his colleagues are to be congratulated on the completion of a fascinating study that will open the door to more extensive research into what happens when we die.”






how are you defining "life?"

was this "awareness" able to interact with anything?  could it affect anything in its surroundings?


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David

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Re: Proof of Heaven [Re: zzripz]
    #21083223 -

I'm not going into details on that story.

Happened in my home town and their family is still there.

I think it would be disrespectful to give out details about this over the Internet.

Yes I have the full story.

I'll share this he was my good friends (to this day) uncle

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Re: Proof of Heaven [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #21083279 -

doctors should do more drugs - just to get used to it.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Proof of Heaven [Re: redgreenvines]
    #21083294 -

redgreenvines said:
doctors should do more drugs - just to get used to it.




high doses of freebase or iv'ed dmt....?

maybe some disassociatives to top it off


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David

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Re: Proof of Heaven [Re: demiu5]
    #21083319 -

demiu5 said:
zzripz said:
check THIS out:

Quote:
First hint of 'life after death' in biggest ever scientific study

...The largest ever medical study into near-death and out-of-body experiences has discovered that some awareness may continue even after the brain has shut down completely...

But scientists at the University of Southampton have spent four years examining more than 2,000 people who suffered cardiac arrests at 15 hospitals in the UK, US and Austria.

And they found that nearly 40 per cent of people who survived described some kind of ‘awareness’ during the time when they were clinically dead before their hearts were restarted.

One man even recalled leaving his body entirely and watching his resuscitation from the corner of the room.

Despite being unconscious and ‘dead’ for three minutes, the 57-year-old social worker from Southampton, recounted the actions of the nursing staff in detail and described the sound of the machines.

“We know the brain can’t function when the heart has stopped beating,” said Dr Sam Parnia, a former research fellow at Southampton University, now at the State University of New York, who led the study.

“But in this case, conscious awareness appears to have continued for up to three minutes into the period when the heart wasn’t beating, even though the brain typically shuts down within 20-30 seconds after the heart has stopped.

“The man described everything that had happened in the room, but importantly, he heard two bleeps from a machine that makes a noise at three minute intervals. So we could time how long the experienced lasted for.

“He seemed very credible and everything that he said had happened to him had actually happened.”  ...Dr Parnia believes many more people may have experiences when they are close to death but drugs or sedatives used in the process of rescuitation may stop them remembering. .. “Many people have assumed that these were hallucinations or illusions but they do seem to corresponded to actual events.

“And a higher proportion of people may have vivid death experiences, but do not recall them due to the effects of brain injury or sedative drugs on memory circuits.

“These experiences warrant further investigation. “

... “There is some very good evidence here that these experiences are actually happening after people have medically died.

“We just don’t know what is going on. We are still very much in the dark about what happens when you die and hopefully this study will help shine a scientific lens onto that.”

The study was published in the journal Resuscitation.

Dr Jerry Nolan, Editor-in-Chief at Resuscitation said: “Dr Parnia and his colleagues are to be congratulated on the completion of a fascinating study that will open the door to more extensive research into what happens when we die.”






how are you defining "life?"

was this "awareness" able to interact with anything?  could it affect anything in its surroundings?



I tend not to try 'define' 'life' or 'death', because to define means what it says
Quote:
define (v.) Look up define at Dictionary.com
    late 14c., "to specify; to end," from Old French defenir, definir "to finish, conclude, come to an end; bring to an end; define, determine with precision," and directly from Latin definire "to limit, determine, explain," from de- "completely" (see de-) + finire "to bound, limit," from finis "boundary, end" (see finish (v.)). Related: Defined; defining.



And whatever life is it is far more mysterious and is wholly connected with 'death'. In other words, what we call 'life' is in reality a dynamic process which includeswhat we call death. Conceptual thinking tries to define, and 'life' is abstracted FROM this dynamic process, conceptually, but in reality is wholly dynamically interwoven with what we call 'death'

I don't know if this "awareness" was able to interact with anything. of you mean being able to make a cup of tea lol. But surely interacting includes observation?

Edited by zzripz (01/07/15 05:15 PM)

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Re: Proof of Heaven [Re: Kilgore Trout] * 2
    #21086442 -

Kilgore Trout said:
I remember seeing an episode of Penn and Teller: Bullshit where they explained how NDE's are a biological process for when the brain is deprived of oxygen. They had a bunch of fighter pilots on who all had "NDE"s from fainting in one of those centrifuge-type things they spin in to simulate high-speed maneuvers. Apparently it's fairly common for the pilots to experience some sort of "NDE" like hallucinations after losing consciousness, which is plenty of proof for me that all these harrowing stories you hear of people meeting God on the operating table are no more than wishful thinking.




duh:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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