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Anonymous

Re: No Heaven, No Hell... [Re: Zahid]
    #813588 - 08/12/02 08:12 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I really wouldn't know because the non existence of heaven and hell is not a reality. What disbelievers don't understand about faith is that it isn't blind, they only think it, but they don't have a slight idea what a person of faith experiences as a result of surrendering to God.

Yoo hoo... Earth to Zahid. Attention: This is a mental and moral exercise, try to play along. I am asking hypothetical questions. Do you know what hypothetical means? These are not questions about the existence of god, these are questions about what you could gain from the teachings and moral code of your belief system even if there was no heaven or hell. What practical benefits are available without the reward/punishment system which is said to await you after you die?

I'll ask again. What in your belief system would you still find compelling to follow and why? What benefits from your system's moral code and teachings can be realized in this life if there is no heaven and there is no hell? Isn't there anything worthy of keeping from your belief system if you remove the spankings and the candy?


Edited by Evolving (08/13/02 05:54 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: No Heaven, No Hell... [Re: Sclorch]
    #813597 - 08/12/02 08:15 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I'm saying a belief in an afterlife could be used as a moral guideline for life. Certainly there does exist a level of dogmatic control tactics through the use of fear in the afterlife as can be witnessed by the Christian idealogy of hell
For the record.. I don't agree with that standpoint.

I don't claim any religion, however I do embrace one of the ideals of Paganism, which is the law of free will. If ye harm none, do as thou will
Or... A human is a sentient and sovereign being with unlimited free will, as long as that free will does not interfere with that of another's, then more power to you.

Basically I don't care if someone believes in an afterlife or not. We'll know when we die. No one can say for certain until they die. Some people remember dying before. Matter cannot be destroyed only converted to energy and vice versa.

The same could be said for consciousness. I sleep, and then wake up. Then I do it again...a cycle it is. I exist without use of the body when I sleep.

Metamorphose Evolutionary




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Offlinewhiterastahippie
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Re: No Heaven, No Hell... [Re: ]
    #813679 - 08/12/02 08:49 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

i'll tell you what my religious belief system holds for me if there is no afterlife.
ecstasy.
it makes my life more beautiful...it makes my time more meaningful. it helps me to find enlightment where none exists. i go into religious rapturs sometimes that are like no drug or experience anyone else can conjure. and that is in this life. so what if there is no after life? i don't care. this one has been made so much better.
and rastafary teaches that this is heaven for a true rastafari...well, i'm catholic and rastafari....the religions mix quite well.
peace.


--------------------
Peace and Love to all!


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InvisibleIn(di)go
People of the sun.
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Re: No Heaven, No Hell... [Re: ]
    #814053 - 08/13/02 04:26 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

Don't you think it would be funny if you died and then it didn't go black? Instead..you just kept on thinking. Ha, that would be a knee slapper, that.




hahahaha.. or even better! that he realized that the thoughts he has are creating his experience, and therefore experiences everything he thinks, just like here on earth, but INMEDIATELY


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: No Heaven, No Hell... [Re: ]
    #814063 - 08/13/02 04:41 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Don't you think it would be funny if you died and then it didn't go black? Instead..you just kept on thinking. Ha, that would be a knee slapper, that.

Until you realized that you were stuck in a coffin and the claustrophobia set in as you tried to claw through the oak casket...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: No Heaven, No Hell... [Re: Swami]
    #814225 - 08/13/02 07:05 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Physical body? Pfft


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Offlinepostalboy
I'm not myfucking khaki's!
Registered: 06/07/02
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Re: No Heaven, No Hell... [Re: Zahid]
    #814235 - 08/13/02 07:07 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I might as well be asking you what you would do in this life if you had knowledge of God's existence. Simple answer, you would obey, fear, and love Him. Only an idiot would reject God after recieving revelation from

Ok i like this question better. The answer is simple: (Ready for this?? )

I would rape, steal, kill and pillage, plunder, look down on others, KNOW that I and only I am correct, start a moronic TV show called the 600 club, wipe my ass with the bible and the Quran and all the other holy books, Fuck little boys in the ass and then have the audacity to ask their parents for money so I could buy a new solid gold cross for my church, bomb this random country, lie to that country, train islamic terrorists to fight the russians and then 15 years later ask the russians for help to kill those same terrorists that we trained, outlaw drugs which are safe and legalize deady drugs like nicotine and alcohol, outlaw nudity but glorify violence, allow contractors to destroy wild life in the pursuit of more money and shopping malls, be a hypocrite in every way imaginable, and finally I would beg for forgiveness and go to heaven with all of the other assholes.

See a simple answer. In short I would be like the rest of those scumbag nutlickers who follow their religion and close their minds to ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING else.

So is that the correct answer?

Postalboy

(EDIT: Shroomism) Try to be nice
HAVE A NICE DAY!


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"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.


Edited by Shroomism (08/13/02 11:39 AM)


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: No Heaven, No Hell... [Re: ]
    #814297 - 08/13/02 07:44 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

If there was no reward and/or punishment in the 'afterlife,' what in your belief system would you still find compelling to follow and why? To put it another way, what benefits from your system's moral code and teachings can be realized in this life if there is no heaven and there is no hell?




Cristian Rationalism . I think they have simple and constructive answers, no hell, no heaven, just free will on this life and full enlightment in between among the genesis of wisdom of the universe. They teach you that all you have to do in this life is to have conduct, i find them the most understandable and rational modern religious belief.

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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Offlinewhiterastahippie
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Re: No Heaven, No Hell... [Re: postalboy]
    #814340 - 08/13/02 08:03 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

1. Show respect for your fellow Shroomerites, their ideas and beliefs. Constructive criticism and debate is of course, encouraged. But flaming another member for their ideas/beliefs or implying attacks wlll not be tolerated. If something is considered to be unnacceptable, it will be edited. I should not need to elaborate any further on this. Just use some common sense when posting, show respect and all will be well.



--------------------
Peace and Love to all!


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Offlinepostalboy
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Registered: 06/07/02
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Re: No Heaven, No Hell... [Re: postalboy]
    #814563 - 08/13/02 09:56 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

*SIGH*

Can't have any fun here...


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"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.


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Offlinetps
ganja ghanstah
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Re: No Heaven, No Hell... [Re: Phred]
    #814636 - 08/13/02 10:38 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I think that you just die. plain and simple. no words can describe what happens except for death. Everything just stops. Then again, there are those people who die for a couple of seconds in a hospital and are revived moments later. They usually talk about seeing a 'light' of some sort. But couldnt that light be the emergency room heh.
I dont know, and i dont know to know about heaven/hell/death/life I want to enjoy what i have now, and what will happen, will happen, wether i want it to or not.


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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
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Re: No Heaven, No Hell... [Re: postalboy]
    #814743 - 08/13/02 11:34 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

lol that was a super post! Although you made your point very extremely, it was still an entertaining read


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: No Heaven, No Hell... [Re: Swami]
    #814813 - 08/13/02 12:03 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I have a question.. Why do "skeptics" think it more likely that there isn't an afterlife? I can undertand Sclorch's non dogmatic belief system...but with most people it just seems to be a case of "get real man..there is no such thing as an afterlife"

Isn't it just as likely that there is an afterlife?

It seems very closed minded to dismiss the entire possibility, when there is no proof that there isn't one ..as much as there is no proof that there is.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: No Heaven, No Hell... [Re: Revelation]
    #815364 - 08/13/02 04:26 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Facts of what happens when you die:

1. Your body decomposes. Most of us partially define ourselves by our body. I am handsome, ugly, fat, young, old, tall short, blonde, or whatever. That is forever gone.

2. Your memories, which reside in your brain, disintegrate along with all skills and knowledge acquired.

3. Your relationships are no more. You are no longer father, brother, son, lover, artist, musician, shroomer.

So the "you" as you define yourself today is completely obliterated.


Why do "skeptics" think it more likely that there isn't an afterlife? Isn't it just as likely that there is an afterlife?
It is not about mathematical probability like flipping a coin.

It seems very closed minded to dismiss the entire possibility,
Is it close-minded to think that there is NOT a gorgeous naked woman holding my million dollar lottery winnings standing outside my door right now? Does that sound silly and preposterous? Well eternal bliss sounds even more so.

If there is zero proof, evidence or any sort of pointer to a continued existence, why should one entertain the possibility at all? What "facts" are there to consider? If you were born and raised alone on the proverbial desert island with no books, what would lead you to believe in such an idea?

There are only two reasons that I know of.

1. An idea borrowed from others.

2. A self-created story to quell a deep-seated fear of oblivion.

Neither of those is sufficient to put any credence into the idea.




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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: No Heaven, No Hell... [Re: ]
    #815748 - 08/13/02 07:17 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Without heaven and hell? I would be a firm believer in democracy, that's for sure.


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Offlinetps
ganja ghanstah
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Re: No Heaven, No Hell... [Re: Zahid]
    #815806 - 08/13/02 07:40 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

3. Your relationships are no more. You are no longer father, brother, son, lover, artist, musician, shroomer.




well there are always those darn necrophiliacs. damn them to hell! if it exists anyways.


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InvisibleMystical_Craven
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Registered: 06/16/02
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Re: No Heaven, No Hell... [Re: tps]
    #816007 - 08/13/02 08:51 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

well there are always those darn necrophiliacs. damn them to hell! if it exists anyways


Funny thing about necrophillia - it's talked about all the time (or in the very least, enough for a large majority of the population to know what the term means) but rarely is ever an actual case recorded. I've always kind of wondered if it was one of those things that was so damn taboo that people that actually go through with it don't tell another soul, or if it's just another one of those things that people talk about a lot but never actually do (like paying taxes)


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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot


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Offlinewhiterastahippie
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Re: No Heaven, No Hell... [Re: Swami]
    #816326 - 08/13/02 11:22 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

make peace with yourself, and heaven and earth make peace with you. take pains to enter your innermost chamber, and you will see the chamber of heaven, for they are one and the same, and in entering one you behold them both. the stairway to the kingdom is within you, secret in your soul. cast off the burden of sin and you will find within you the upward path that will make your ascent possible.
this chamber is another name for eternal life. it is also called the kingdom of heaven, the kingdom of god, or quite simply, christ. to live in christ is to live in eternal life.
we are all one.
peace.


--------------------
Peace and Love to all!


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Anonymous

Re: No Heaven, No Hell... [Re: Zahid]
    #817856 - 08/15/02 01:12 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

You seem to have a love affair with evasion as well as Islam. Allow me to present a brief parable in an effort to prod you to think...

Four men passed through their lives. The first man did good because his religion promised him eternal damnation if he did wrong. The second man did good because his religion promised him everlasting happiness. The third man promised to do good if elected to political office, once elected he used his position to force others to pay for his good works which he performed in order to stay in office. The fourth man did good because he felt that it was good.

Which of these four is really the good one?


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OfflineInsomniac
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Re: No Heaven, No Hell... [Re: Swami]
    #817930 - 08/15/02 01:36 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

So the "you" as you define yourself today is completely obliterated.

Agreed. Do you think it's possible though that there is another sort of "you" that does not get much attention, or maybe forgotten about?

For example, we all know as a baby your memories, relationships, and definitions of yourself had not yet been developed. So at that point was there still a "you" that existed? Not necessarily a sense of self-awareness but just an awareness?


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