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OfflinePhred
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Saddam, 9/11
    #1936144 - 09/20/03 08:02 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

From http://www.townhall.com/columnists/monacharen/mc20030919.shtml --

Saddam, and 9/11
Mona Charen

September 19, 2003

National Public Radio and the major television networks can scarcely contain their excitement. In what they obviously regard as a huge concession, President Bush noted the other day that "No, we?ve had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September the eleventh." Along with most of the Democratic candidates for president, many in the press have been arguing for months that the Bush administration misled the American people by implying a link that did not exist. Put that together with the failure to find weapons of mass destruction, they say, and you?ve got a real indictment.

According to the Democrats? bill of particulars, the Bush administration -- knowing full well that Saddam was not involved in 9/11 -- nonetheless encouraged Americans to believe he was in order to fulfill some Dr. Strangeloveish neocon battle plan for Iraq. The administration further lied when it offered the existence of weapons of mass destruction as a rationale for war. If what the Democrats say is true, we are dealing with one of the most dishonest and corrupt administrations in history.

But there are a few problems with their analysis. In the first place, no one in the administration ever claimed that Saddam was responsible for 9/11. The president pinned blame for that attack firmly on Al Qaeda. But the president and his administration also clearly stated that the war on terror was not limited to Al Qaeda, that it was a global war that would be fought on many fronts. The Axis of Evil included (in addition to Iraq) North Korea and Iran, neither of whom bears direct responsibility for 9/11 either. And the administration has dispatched troops to the Philippines as well as Afghanistan and Iraq.

********************

More at the link.

pinky




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Offlineshakta
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Re: Saddam, 9/11 [Re: Phred]
    #1936160 - 09/20/03 08:12 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Pinky the truth doesn't matter. It was implied that Saddam was flying one of the planes, and parachuted out just in time.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Saddam, 9/11 [Re: shakta]
    #4904627 - 11/07/05 04:23 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
Pinky the truth doesn't matter. It was implied that Saddam was flying one of the planes, and parachuted out just in time. 



:rofl:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Saddam, 9/11 [Re: Phred]
    #4904657 - 11/07/05 04:33 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

In the first place, no one in the administration ever claimed that Saddam was responsible for 9/11




Cheney
Bush
Rummy


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Saddam, 9/11 [Re: Rono]
    #4904711 - 11/07/05 04:53 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

US President George Bush has said:

"there is no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in the 11 September attacks."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3118262.stm


BUT!!!!!He referred to Saddam Hussein many  times , often in the same breath with Sept. 11!!!

:eek:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Saddam, 9/11 [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4904897 - 11/07/05 05:39 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BUT!!!!!He referred to Saddam Hussein many times , often in the same breath with Sept. 11!!!




You think it was accidental that 45% of Americans thought Iraq had something to do wtih 9/11?


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Saddam, 9/11 [Re: Rono]
    #4904917 - 11/07/05 05:42 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Rono said:
Quote:

BUT!!!!!He referred to Saddam Hussein many times , often in the same breath with Sept. 11!!!




You think it was accidental that 45% of Americans thought Iraq had something to do wtih 9/11?




I think it is a testament to how most Americans don't make much of an effort to become informed about current events.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Saddam, 9/11 [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4904931 - 11/07/05 05:47 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Would you agree that is fairly common knowledge?...perhaps common enough knowledge that it could be taken advantage of?


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Saddam, 9/11 [Re: Rono]
    #4904935 - 11/07/05 05:49 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Rono said:
Would you agree that is fairly common knowledge?...perhaps common enough knowledge that it could be taken advantage of?




Are you saying that officials in the Bush administration used some insinuations and innuendo to influence uninformed people's opinions?


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Saddam, 9/11 [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4904954 - 11/07/05 05:54 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

That's exactly what I'm saying...


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Saddam, 9/11 [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4905070 - 11/07/05 06:19 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:

Are you saying that officials in the Bush administration used some insinuations and innuendo to influence uninformed people's opinions?




    :cool:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Saddam, 9/11 [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4905134 - 11/07/05 06:37 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

All I know is that Abu Masab al-Zarqawi was in Iraq in 2002 (before the invasion) in Kurdistan, where he created several terrorist camps.


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: Saddam, 9/11 [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4905135 - 11/07/05 06:37 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I think that Saddam did have something to 9/11. I think that he trained terrorists and funded terror groups like Al Queda and the Abu Nadal group. I think that Mohamed Atta met with Iraqi inteligence in Prauge shortly before the attacks. I think that Sadaam gave them technical supports, fake identification, and funding. I also think that Saddam had weapons of mass distruction and he smuggled them into Syria before the war.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Saddam, 9/11 [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4905218 - 11/07/05 06:54 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

do you think you could substantiate any of this?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Saddam, 9/11 [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4905598 - 11/07/05 08:18 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think you can do sentence #one precisely but I think you can do the others. afoaf is convinceable. He's worth trying.


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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: Saddam, 9/11 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4905646 - 11/07/05 08:27 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Prewar report doubted Iraq-al Qaeda tie

Senator: Document shows White House was 'deceptive'

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A Democratic senator on Sunday said newly declassified information shows that Bush administration officials repeatedly accused Iraq of training al Qaeda terrorists long after interrogators concluded the source of the report was "intentionally misleading" captors.

Sen. Carl Levin, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee, cited declassified Defense Intelligence Agency documents to back up his account.

"This newly declassified information provides additional, dramatic evidence that the administration's prewar statements were deceptive," the Michigan Democrat said in a written statement.

"The underlying intelligence simply did not support the administration's repeated assertions that Iraq had provided chemical and biological weapons training to al Qaeda," said Levin, also a member of the Intelligence Committee.

Those assertions were given prominent play in the administration's arguments for the March 2003 invasion of Iraq.

Top administration officials -- including President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, then-national security adviser Condoleezza Rice and former Secretary of State Colin Powell -- all repeated them in the months before the invasion.

But the assertions were based on the word of a captive al Qaeda operative whom the Defense Intelligence Agency had previously concluded was probably lying to his interrogators.

In February 2002, a DIA report on the questioning of Ibn Shaykh al-Libi stated, "More likely this individual is intentionally misleading the debriefers."

"Despite the DIA's findings, administration officials made numerous statements based on the detainee's claims that Iraq had provided training in chemical and biological weapons to al Qaeda," Levin said.

Levin also argued in 2004 that the Pentagon had hyped dubious intelligence linking Iraq to al Qaeda terrorist network in the months before the invasion.

His latest criticism comes as Democrats have launched a concerted effort to refocus public attention on the roots of the war, where the U.S. military's death toll climbed on Sunday to 2,047. (Full story)

Jay Rockefeller, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, said he would not have supported the 2002 congressional resolution that authorized military action "knowing what I know now."

Rockefeller told CNN's "Late Edition" that al-Libi was "an entirely unreliable individual upon whom the White House was placing substantial intelligence trust."

He said Sunday's disclosure was another reason the Intelligence Committee needs to wrap up a promised investigation into how policymakers used intelligence data to push for war. The panel's initial probe focused on the quality of the intelligence and not how policymakers used it.

"That is a classic example of a lack of accountability to the American people," Rockefeller said.

Democrats closed the Senate to the public Tuesday afternoon to pressure the Intelligence Committee's chairman, Kansas Republican Pat Roberts, to move forward on the follow-up probe -- a move Republicans blasted as a stunt.

The Senate reopened after members agreed to appoint a bipartisan task force to assess the progress of the Phase 2 probe and report back by November 14.

Roberts told CBS' "Face the Nation" on Sunday that the panel has been working on the report "for a considerable amount of time."

"We have several working drafts that we will give to members as of this week," Roberts said.

The Democrats' pressure in the Senate followed the indictment of Cheney's top aide, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, on charges including perjury and obstruction of justice.

Libby is accused of lying about the disclosure of the identity of a CIA officer whose husband had challenged a key assertion in the administration's case for war. (Full story)

Pentagon: Document 'out of context'

Pentagon spokesman Lawrence Di Rita said Sunday that the DIA report Levin cited was a single document "out of context, without the analysis or any other indication as to how it may have factored in."

In an interview with CNN, he called its release "troubling and ironic, given the underlying allegation that this selected release is intended to address, namely someone's perception that intelligence was used selectively."

Top administration officials, including Bush himself, repeatedly asserted that Iraq was concealing chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs and could one day provide those weapons to terrorists.

"We have learned that Iraq has trained al Qaeda members in bombmaking, poisons and deadly gases," Bush said in a nationally televised speech from Ohio in October 2002.

"You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror," Bush told reporters at the White House in September 2002.

Rice, now secretary of state, made the same claim in September 2002. And Powell included the allegation in his presentation to the U.N. Security Council in February 2003.

But once a U.S.-led army had toppled Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, none of the suspected weapons programs were found.

The independent commission investigating the 9/11 attacks concluded in 2004 that there was no collaborative relationship between al Qaeda and Iraq, though some contacts between the two sides dated back to the early 1990s.

And in 2002, the declassified DIA report said: "Saddam's regime is intensely secular and is wary of Islamic revolutionary movements. Moreover, Baghdad is unlikely to provide assistance to a group it cannot control."

White House spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters traveling with Bush in Latin America Sunday that both Democrats and Republicans "came to the same conclusion" before the war -- "that Saddam Hussein was a threat and a threat that needed to be addressed."

"We welcome the opportunity to talk about the threat that Saddam Hussein and his region posed," McClellan said. "It was a brutal regime; it was an oppressive regime and the world is better off with him removed from power."

Sen. George Allen, a Virginia Republican, said the intelligence at the time raised fears that Iraq could have provided weapons of mass destruction to terrorists.

"Recognize the mindset of this country and our leaders in this country that we got hit on 9/11, 2001, and we didn't want to sit back," said Allen, another Intelligence Committee member. "We needed to make sure we're proactive in trying to thwart and protect, thwart terrorist attacks and protect Americans."


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Saddam, 9/11 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4905764 - 11/07/05 08:46 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

the two items I'm most interested in are these:

"I think that Sadaam gave them technical supports, fake identification, and funding. I also think that Saddam had weapons of mass distruction and he smuggled them into Syria before the war."


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Saddam, 9/11 [Re: afoaf]
    #4906153 - 11/07/05 09:56 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Perhaps the Saddam 911 connection was created by the same public stupidity that is responsible for the belief that anyone ever said Iraq was an "immenant" threat, that Valerie Plame was a covert agent, that Bill Clinton was impeached for adultery, that Bush "lied" about WMDs, etc. People believe alot of dumb things. For example the article Ancalagon posted implies that the White House was deliberately deceptive about WMD info, when later down down the page it seems that the decieving party was not the White House at all but the informant. The CIA was mislead by a captive, not the Congress by the President.

Alot people get their information from headlines, so of course they believe dumb things.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Saddam, 9/11 [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4906291 - 11/07/05 10:21 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

if the people have a proven track record for getting
the stupid headlines stuck in their craw, couldn't
you leverage that pattern through semantics while
maintaining plausible deniability?


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: Saddam, 9/11 [Re: afoaf]
    #4906345 - 11/07/05 10:32 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

It's called 'propaganda.'


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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