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InvisibleGreat_Satan
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Saddam's parades of dead babies exposed as charade
    #3099347 - 09/06/04 04:13 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Saddam's parades of dead babies are exposed as a cynical charade
(Filed: 25/05/2003)


UN sanctions did not kill the hundreds of infants displayed over the years - it was neglect by the former regime, Iraqi doctors in Baghdad tell Charlotte Edwardes


The "baby parades" were a staple of Saddam Hussein's propaganda machine for a decade. Convoys of taxis, with the tiny coffins of dead infants strapped to their roofs - allegedly killed by United Nations sanctions - were driven through the streets of Baghdad, past crowds of women screaming anti-Western slogans.

The moving scenes were often filmed by visiting television crews and provided valuable ammunition to anti-sanctions activists such as George Galloway, the Labour MP, who blamed Western governments for the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children.

But The Telegraph can reveal that it was all a cynical charade. Iraqi doctors say they were told to collect dead babies who had died prematurely or from natural causes and to store them in cardboard boxes in refrigerated morgues for up to four weeks - until they had sufficient corpses for a parade.

Many of the children died, they say, as a result of the Iraqi government's own neglect as it lavished funds on military programmes and Saddam's palaces in the knowledge that it could blame sanctions for the lack of medicines and equipment in hospitals and clinics.

"We were not allowed to return the babies to their mothers for immediate burial, as is the Muslim tradition, but told they must be kept for what became known as 'the taxi parade'," said Dr Hussein al-Douri, the deputy director of the Ibn al-Baladi hospital in Saddam City, a Shia district in eastern Baghdad.

"The mothers would be hysterical and sometimes threaten to kill us, but we knew that the real threat was from the government."

Asked what would have happened if he had disobeyed the orders, Dr al-Douri replied: "They would have killed our families. This was an important event for the propaganda campaign."

Dr al-Douri, who has worked for 10 years as a paediatrician, said the parades were orchestrated by officials from the ministries of health, information and intelligence.

He said: "All 10 hospitals in Baghdad were involved in this and the quota for the parade was between 25 and 30 babies a month, which they would say had died in one day.

"We had to tell the babies' families that it was a government order and that they would be paid to keep quiet. The reward was sometimes in money, the equivalent of $10 per baby, or in food: rice, sugar and oil."

The government then ordered members of the Iraqi Women's Federation, an organisation funded by the regime, to line the streets of Baghdad and wail and beat themselves in mock grief.

"They portrayed an image of mothers in mourning for their recently dead children," he said. "It was too dangerous not to follow the orders. We were very afraid. The families were afraid, too."

Dr al-Douri showed The Telegraph the morgue where babies' bodies would be stored in cardboard boxes before being transferred to wooden coffins carrying their names and sometimes photographs.

Dr Amer Abdul al-Jalil, the deputy resident at the hospital, said: "Sanctions did not kill these children - Saddam killed them. The internal sanctions by the Saddam regime were very effective. Those who died prematurely usually died because their mothers lived in impoverished areas neglected by the government.

"The mortality rate was higher in areas such as Saddam City because there was no sewerage system. Infectious diseases were rampant.

"Over the past 10 years, the government in Iraq poured money into the military and the construction of palaces for Saddam to the detriment of the health sector. Those babies or small children who died because they could not access the right drugs, died because Saddam's government failed to distribute the drugs. The poorer areas were most vulnerable."

He added: "We feel terrible that this happened, but we were living under a regime and we had to keep silent. What could we do?"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/05/25/wirq25.xml


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InvisibleGreat_Satan
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Re: Saddam's parades of dead babies exposed as charade [Re: Great_Satan]
    #3109703 - 09/08/04 08:38 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Some of the leftists seemed to have missed this. They keep bringing up the subject of Iraq sanctions. With their short attention spans its easy to see why.


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Saddam's parades of dead babies exposed as charade [Re: Great_Satan]
    #3110313 - 09/08/04 10:46 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Why don't you post something of substance instead of just talking shit about lefties for once?


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Saddam's parades of dead babies exposed as charade [Re: monoamine]
    #3110321 - 09/08/04 10:48 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

That's like asking a cow to lay an egg.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineBarbi
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Re: Saddam's parades of dead babies exposed as charade [Re: silversoul7]
    #3110554 - 09/08/04 11:33 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Hrm. Maybe I'm blind but that article looks like substance to me.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Saddam's parades of dead babies exposed as charade [Re: Barbi]
    #3110574 - 09/08/04 11:36 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Looks pretty substantial to me as well.

Honestly, mono, SS7, what's your complaint? I don't get it.


pinky


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Saddam's parades of dead babies exposed as charade [Re: Phred]
    #3110587 - 09/08/04 11:40 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
Honestly, mono, SS7, what's your complaint? I don't get it.



Not so much with this specific article. Just with his consistent pattern of posting anti-Muslim articles and then going off on nonsensical rants about "lefties" not having any abilities to reason. It just gets tiring after a while. Ah, nevermind.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Saddam's parades of dead babies exposed as charade [Re: silversoul7]
    #3110620 - 09/08/04 11:48 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I don't see any anti-Muslim sentiment in that article. Hussein wasn't a "real" Muslim, after all. That's why it's impossible for Iraq to have had any connection to al Qaeda, remember?

pinky


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Saddam's parades of dead babies exposed as charade [Re: Great_Satan]
    #3110632 - 09/08/04 11:50 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Personally, I do believe that the sanctions resulted in a higher death rate in Iraq, not by themselves, but as a tool in Saddam's hands, not so much because of anything inherently wrong with the sanctions themselves.

War was a much more intelligent and humane answer, and the only redeeming quality of the Bush administration.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Saddam's parades of dead babies exposed as charade [Re: Phred]
    #3110677 - 09/09/04 12:02 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I was responding more to his follow-up post, and even more so to his general pattern of posting.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Saddam's parades of dead babies exposed as charade [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3110750 - 09/09/04 12:14 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Baby_Hitler writes:

War was a much more intelligent and humane answer...

Yep.

... and the only redeeming quality of the Bush administration.

Apart from the tax cuts.

pinky


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Saddam's parades of dead babies exposed as charade [Re: Phred]
    #3110778 - 09/09/04 12:18 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
... and the only redeeming quality of the Bush administration.

Apart from the tax cuts.



*tax deferments


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Saddam's parades of dead babies exposed as charade [Re: Phred]
    #3110980 - 09/09/04 12:52 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Tax cuts are meaningless without reduced spending.


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Offlinethieverycorp
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Re: Saddam's parades of dead babies exposed as charade [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3111097 - 09/09/04 01:06 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

my view on the sanctions is that they were the wrong tool, they caused no suffering on the ones who deserved it, and the Iraqi public paid for Saddams wrong doings, while Saddam lived ever in the lap of luxury...
I don't want people to get the wrong idea about me, yes, I am a "leftie," as "leftie" as the come infact... but I do not support terrorism, I did not support Saddam Hussein and I do not support him today... I love my country, I love my countries troops as they are my brothers and sisters and the protectors of the freedom that allows me to have and voice my opinions, but I did not support this war from the start...


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Saddam's parades of dead babies exposed as charade [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3111123 - 09/09/04 01:10 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Incorrect. Tax cuts increase federal revenue due to the increased volume of taxable business activity the tax cuts generate. Increased revenue = decreased deficit. This is why the projected deficit this year has been revised downwards twice already -- increased federal tax revenue. It certainly wasn't from decreased spending.

However, if you increase revenue and decrease costs, then of course the deficit will be reduced more.

However, this thread is about Hussein's propaganda tactics, not basic economic theory. I suggest we continue this discussion in a different thread... maybe Skikid16's "Bush must have money trees" thread.

pinky


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Saddam's parades of dead babies exposed as charade [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3111159 - 09/09/04 01:14 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Tax cuts are meaningless without reduced spending.



:thumbup:  Yes!  As Silversoul pointed out, without concurrent spending cuts, they are merely tax deferments and when the debt is monetized (new money is created to buy the debt instruments) they decrease the value of the currency in circulation.  It is a con job perpetrated upon everyone who holds the currency.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Saddam's parades of dead babies exposed as charade [Re: Phred]
    #3111216 - 09/09/04 01:23 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
This is why the projected deficit this year has been revised downwards twice already



Please Pinky, projected deficits? This is as bad as leftists calling lower than expected spending increases 'spending cuts.' The debt has increased, and off budget spending has been increased.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Saddam's parades of dead babies exposed as charade [Re: Evolving]
    #3111267 - 09/09/04 01:33 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I'll happily discuss this further, but not in this thread. I suggest we continue this discussion in Skikid16's "Bush money trees" thread, but you could start a new thread if you'd rather.

pinky


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Saddam's parades of dead babies exposed as charade [Re: Phred]
    #3111435 - 09/09/04 02:02 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Yessir, kickass little war.


Yee dawggie!


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InvisibleGreat_Satan
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Re: Saddam's parades of dead babies exposed as charade [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3139973 - 09/15/04 07:57 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Gazbutt must have missed this too. He keeps talking about sanctions over and over again.


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