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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Rupert Sheldrake needs to get his PhD revoked. [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #18477792 -

:yawn:

Just what we need is more words in lieu of an acceptable study - the way legitimate scientists do it.


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Re: Rupert Sheldrake needs to get his PhD revoked. [Re: zzripz]
    #18477801 -

I support the possibility of the spirit world.
Not real? you can't disprove it anymore than anyone can prove it.

The possibility is both interesting and exciting. Why make a different thread every day where you basically call anyone with hope for something bigger a "magical thinker" and basically try to shit in everyone's cornflakes?? 
 
  Do you feel like God wronged you, or disappointed you and you are reflecting your own inner struggles?  There's nothing wrong with not believing any more than there is believing.

Trying to knock people off of their hopes, dreams, and faiths as you are doing daily with the same exact topic dreesed in a different package, well that's not very good.

What's the deal?

" Hey guys, so & so is nuts because they believe in something"
Believing in something gives people hope. It's a healthy thing for many.

Crazy people exist on each side of the coin. Whats your reason for your daily struggle against it?


--------------------


spread love
love is everything
2013 finds
medicinal psilocybin tincture drops
cannabis pics

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Re: Rupert Sheldrake needs to get his PhD revoked. [Re: Oeric McKenna]
    #18477815 -

Oeric McKenna said:
I support the possibility of the spirit world.
Not real? you can't disprove it anymore than anyone can prove it.



Strawman number one.

Quote:
The possibility is both interesting and exciting. Why make a different thread every day where you basically call anyone with hope for something bigger a "magical thinker" and basically try to shit in everyone's cornflakes?? 
 



strawman number 2

Quote:
  Do you feel like God wronged you, or disappointed you and you are reflecting your own inner struggles?  There's nothing wrong with not believing any more than there is believing.



:foreheadslap:



Quote:
Trying to knock people off of their hopes, dreams, and faiths as you are doing daily with the same exact topic dreesed in a different package, well that's not very good.




Conclusory; demonstrate that "that's not very good."



Quote:
" Hey guys, so & so is nuts because they believe in something"
Believing in something gives people hope. It's a healthy thing for many.

Crazy people exist on each side of the coin. Whats your reason for your daily struggle against it?


irrationality causes suffering.  Good people can't do good if they can't evaluate the state of the world and rationally predict the effect their decisions will have on it, hence irrationality deprives us of the fruits of good people.

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Re: Rupert Sheldrake needs to get his PhD revoked. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18477862 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
His book 'Dogs that know when their owners are coming home' has been discredited. His testing was loose and shoddy and partially based on innuendo, assumption and anecdote. Unsurprisingly, not a single degreed animal behaviorist has been able to duplicate his results.

Sheldrake has no limit of unfounded beliefs. One of them is that a person can tell when being stared at. this does not take years of study and conjecture. It can be done with a simple test - and of course, he turned down Randi's million dollar offer to prove this simple premise.

Why would he not take it? No government agents would take him away for proving an ability he claims that we all possess. No, the reason is because on some level he realizes he is a fraud out to sell magical-thinking books and nothing more.

:jester:


nice energy yo, diggin your conviction here poignantly pointing out some facets of sheldrakes self imposed shackles of thought.
what its about for me is recognizing that as a consciousness, as consciousness beings we always flow in the path of the least resistance even when we choose to make it seem 100% like were NOT doing that. flow, and some resist while others dont resist at all and book it down the infinite road.
what i mean is that we will and have seen and logged the effects of consciousness on processes "outside" of our bodies and minds and brains n such, influencing random things and processes i guess, when the path of least resistance for the subject who believes they are psychic and can psychically telekinetically affect things outside of them IS for them to be psychic and use that focus in the ways the experimenters are controlling for. again when being psychic and doing the psychic task in the way the subject wants/experimenter wants them to is the only option in the experiment, so that physically they can do nothing at all to effect the tasks completion.

get what i mean?
i mean that we are more psychic and potent with this different mental, physical, consciousness psychicness state when our only option is to use this, when we focus on it 100% getting LOST in it, in the channeled inward state of being that truly can and does access the psychic state, created simply with simple intentionality, where the connection between what we perceive to be separateness already exists wholly unified, and thus can be tapped.
so probably we would see more potent effects if random marbles were dropped down a separating container, like a rain stick ya know, with different numbered collecting tubes, if there was no way for the subject whose goal was to with psychicness/imagination/mental power/chi energy/whotheFUCKknows get the most marbles to be in THEIR favorite numbered tube instead of any other, if there was no way for the subject to manipulate the device physically, which would just be flowing marbles randomly down a "random" jumbling tube and catching them with other numbered tubes in the bottom. also maybe the subject shouldnt even be able to see the marbles as theyre flowing, or maybe they should, maybe they should just see their square filling up with marbles, and have that be it. more thinking i need to do because i can actually do experiments like this at school. i'll be reading more before this next semesteer FORSURE. i'd love to do work like this.


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there is nothing to fear with this chemical besides astonishing realization that everything IS indeed 1 entity

Questions

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Re: Rupert Sheldrake needs to get his PhD revoked. [Re: johnm214]
    #18477896 -

there is no state of being of "the world"

there is only the inward state of being that you always have identified with

because this state creates all of "reality" which NEVER could ever be "real", empirically so in more than a person

because this state constantly creates the world you experience

YOU cause suffering in every which way, although its also true to say that once you ReAlIzE that AlL KARMA is SeLF imPOSED, ALWAYS, you dont have any fuckin karma anymore to ever speak about, ever again. so stop bitchin and start kickin.
life still is
no buts really, no conditions ever were to begin with, cause existence didnt even begin in the "first" place. all ideas are transitory and absolutely meaningless. stop holding on so much, be SOMA, body inCARNATE with physical fire as your BIRTHRIGHT
unconditionally BE, SEE, FEEL, INCARNATE
and DROP like HOT FIRE the parameters you put on your physical life and let your excitement lead the way, because you can support your life 100% ALWAYS.

support can never reliably come really from "outside" the inner state, because on some level we agree to all the feelings we feel, thoughts we think, things we experience, choosing to allow these ideas and cognitions to be part of us, working, chemically interacting, because with every thought a subsequent chemical is created in your body that exists, that is resonant obviously with the thought you created-stress hormones n such for tight thoughts, in comparison to pleasure inducing chemicals created in imagination states. let yourself be the core that you are, because you already are 100% complete, seriously, believe it or live an incomplete life and die that way maybe. what do you think, do you think i'm saying real shit here?

that if you don't start right now in this moment by defining this Experience and existence to be the MOST POSITIVE loving or conscious or expanded or imaginative or whatever experience you could EVER HAVE, you could end up dying believing in the lies you were born n raised on, that you yourself aren't perfect as you are?
fuck the drearyness though i never needed to live that shit
in fact i've never needed any suffering ever
and because i am i really dont actually
fuck the noise i'm not gonna suffer because you believe i should as a "human"! cocksucker dick suck ya!


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there is nothing to fear with this chemical besides astonishing realization that everything IS indeed 1 entity

Questions

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Re: Rupert Sheldrake needs to get his PhD revoked. [Re: jw2234]
    #18477915 -

Quote:
i mean that we are more psychic and potent with this different mental, physical, consciousness psychicness state


100 percent more psychic than zero percent is an amazing achievement! :thumbup:

Yes, I am sure you will be the first person to claim Randi' million with a solid test. Good luck.


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Re: Rupert Sheldrake needs to get his PhD revoked. [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #18477937 -

Visionary Tools said:
Oh no, how dare a scientist research into a field you don't like, conducting original research and earn a d.phil for expanding the knowledge known to us.

Too bad the world is full of fuddy duddy pricks that rankle you, op.

Here's an idea. Work to disprove his research, conduct experiments that show his theories are false then get it peer reviewed. If he's right, then the work you do will further refine and solidify the theory. If he's wrong, you'll have proven it, and then more work can be conducted into informational current and how living organisms receive/transmit the information.

You know, be scientific about it, rather than being a butthurt crybaby that someone would dare research into something that you think is superstitious mumbo jumbo.


You must have missed the part where OC was pointing out that what you're suggesting has already happened. :lol: That was the entire point of the OP. D'oh!


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Rupert Sheldrake needs to get his PhD revoked. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18478001 -

no doubt in my heart, but i'm more in it for the fun so i'll let that take me to where and when i really need to be, only here and now actually, peace its time to see and dream

gutennacht


--------------------
               
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

there is nothing to fear with this chemical besides astonishing realization that everything IS indeed 1 entity

Questions

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Re: Rupert Sheldrake needs to get his PhD revoked. [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #18478162 -

Well then let me: They are freakin contemptible cowards, who do not even have the integrity to back up their slander against Rupert Sheldrake in a public arena, because they know he would wipe the floor with them!



:curbyourenthusiasm:

Oh Oh Oh Zz gets a jab in. 

It's all about the love and acceptance dude. :thumbup:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Rupert Sheldrake needs to get his PhD revoked. [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #18478396 -

Worldwide Flood Precipitation

I calculated a few years ago what would happen if every last molecule of water vapor in the atmosphere precipitated. The global rise in sea level was about a meter. Miami Beach would be in trouble, but even Disney World in central Florida would stay dry at two meters above sea level. There is FAR more water stored in the ice caps and glaciers than in the entire atmosphere.

So much for the ark story. Not that this bothers True Believers or gives them pause.

BTW, the author of Genesis makes it clear that God c-r-e-a-t-e-d rainbows to mark the occasion of his grand covenant with Noah in which he promises to never again unleash a flood of such magnitude on the Earth. If Noah's rainbow hadn't been the very first, then it's not likely that Noah would have been impressed with this special token of God's covenant.

Nevertheless, rainbows appear throughout all recorded human history, much of it predating all the books of the Bible by an enormous margin. Rainbows were documented by the ancient Chinese 11,000 years ago and far earlier than that by primitive cavemen in cave paintings.

The oldest book in the Bible is Job around 1500 B.C.

Now, if God changed the physics of light refraction (this is a requirement to create the very first rainbow), then nobody before rainbows existed would have been able to see because human eyes, specifically lenses, rely on the same principles of refraction to form an image on the retina that water droplets use to form a rainbow in the sky.

So either every human on the planet was blind before the flood or Noah's rainbow wasn't the very first as they are prerequisite to seeing. So the bible is wrong... again.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Rupert Sheldrake needs to get his PhD revoked. [Re: Ran-D] * 1
    #18478585 -

What? I'd like to hear the opposition to that guy, I've only heard his side of it "Miraculous Messages From Water" by Dr Masaru Emoto is the book.

I can't believe the Dr. Masaru Emoto bullshit is still makeing the rounds here. I've debunked this several times, but we have enough noobs here that it's worth doing it again.

Let's start with the Dr. part. Emoto's PhD is from an uncredited diploma farm. He never earned a PhD. He just had one printed up for him. This alone doesn't invalidate his claims, but it goes to show how True Believers swallow any bullshit that's fed to them without critical analysis so long as it supports their pre-conclusions.

Next, Emoto claims that when he tapes words to bottles of water and freezes them, the crystals that form are descriptive of the words used. For example, if the word 'love' is taped to a bottle, beautiful crystals form; if the words 'you make me sick' are used, ugly crystals form.

What Emoto fails to mention is that the person judging the character of the crystals knows the word used and uses this foreknowledge to look for for a crystal among the millions that form which matches the target word. This is a huge no-no in science because it's been shown again and again that, even against your best intentions, if you know what's supposed to be there, you will usually find it - it's called Selection Bias and automatically invalidates any findings.

To demonstrate a real effect, the person characterizing the crystals would have to be blind to the word used so that he can make an honest and fair assessment of the aesthetics of the crystal without the bias conferred by knowledge of the word used and the expected result he's looking for.

By the way, James Randi has said that if Emoto could perform this experiment successfully at JREF, it would qualify for the JREF Million Dollar Prize. Demonstrating his claims in a proper blind protocol would show there really is a correlation between the words taped to a bottle and the crystals formed within. Not surprisingly, Emoto has never applied for the million dollar prize. And before you go off calling Randi a fraud, there are dozens of other skeptic organizations around the world who would also pay out their prize if anyone can do what Emoto says he can do.

Meanwhile, attempts to reproduce Emoto's work by others have now been made. Again not surprisingly, his results are unreproducible when the test is done properly blinded.

Additionally, Emoto has been invited to demonstrate his results by a few universities. He's declined all the invitations so far.

And finally, Emoto published his work without peer review. This means that he can report anything at all, and since no other scientists were offered the opportunity to comment, his word goes uncontested.

It's relevant to note that even with all of the above, his book is still selling well. Seems many people seeking truth don't care much about the truth.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Rupert Sheldrake needs to get his PhD revoked. [Re: Diploid]
    #18480685 -

Diploid said:
What? I'd like to hear the opposition to that guy, I've only heard his side of it "Miraculous Messages From Water" by Dr Masaru Emoto is the book.

I can't believe the Dr. Masaru Emoto bullshit is still makeing the rounds here. I've debunked this several times, but we have enough noobs here that it's worth doing it again.

Let's start with the Dr. part. Emoto's PhD is from an uncredited diploma farm. He never earned a PhD. He just had one printed up for him. This alone doesn't invalidate his claims, but it goes to show how True Believers swallow any bullshit that's fed to them without critical analysis so long as it supports their pre-conclusions.

Next, Emoto claims that when he tapes words to bottles of water and freezes them, the crystals that form are descriptive of the words used. For example, if the word 'love' is taped to a bottle, beautiful crystals form; if the words 'you make me sick' are used, ugly crystals form.

What Emoto fails to mention is that the person judging the character of the crystals knows the word used and uses this foreknowledge to look for for a crystal among the millions that form which matches the target word. This is a huge no-no in science because it's been shown again and again that, even against your best intentions, if you know what's supposed to be there, you will usually find it - it's called Selection Bias and automatically invalidates any findings.

To demonstrate a real effect, the person characterizing the crystals would have to be blind to the word used so that he can make an honest and fair assessment of the aesthetics of the crystal without the bias conferred by knowledge of the word used and the expected result he's looking for.

By the way, James Randi has said that if Emoto could perform this experiment successfully at JREF, it would qualify for the JREF Million Dollar Prize. Demonstrating his claims in a proper blind protocol would show there really is a correlation between the words taped to a bottle and the crystals formed within. Not surprisingly, Emoto has never applied for the million dollar prize. And before you go off calling Randi a fraud, there are dozens of other skeptic organizations around the world who would also pay out their prize if anyone can do what Emoto says he can do.

Meanwhile, attempts to reproduce Emoto's work by others have now been made. Again not surprisingly, his results are unreproducible when the test is done properly blinded.

Additionally, Emoto has been invited to demonstrate his results by a few universities. He's declined all the invitations so far.

And finally, Emoto published his work without peer review. This means that he can report anything at all, and since no other scientists were offered the opportunity to comment, his word goes uncontested.

It's relevant to note that even with all of the above, his book is still selling well. Seems many people seeking truth don't care much about the truth.


He was actually published in a peer review journal, however it is worth noting that Emoto’s Journal article is not a scientific report, but a three page long “photo essay.” Dr. Emoto, himself, stated “Even though my book, Message from Water, was first published in 1999 and has been translated in over 20 languages, I have not heard of anybody else conducting similar research” (Woodhouse). His claims resonate with “Alternative therapists, religious leaders, spiritual researchers, artists, and musicians” (Emoto, Healing 3), but it appears that his work has widely been disregarded by traditional scientists as pseudoscience that does not merit further inspection.

The only published reproduction of Emoto’s work on record was conducted by Mr. Damian Nash’s AP psychology class at Durango High School in Colorado. Despite numerous difficulties reproducing Emoto’s procedure and controlling the temperature and sample freezing and melting rates, at least the class employed a blind experimental design to eliminate the possibility of experimenter’s bias when photographing the water samples. As published on the website of the Institute of Noetic Sciences on May 25, 2004, Mr. Nash states that the team “did not find sufficient evidence to refute or accept Emoto’s hypothesis that thought influences water crystal formation.”


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.

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Re: Rupert Sheldrake needs to get his PhD revoked. [Re: hTx]
    #18480976 -

Quote:
His claims resonate with “Alternative therapists, religious leaders, spiritual researchers, artists, and musicians” (Emoto, Healing 3), but it appears that his work has widely been disregarded by traditional scientists as pseudoscience that does not merit further inspection.



Of course his claims resonate with fellow con-men exploiting the exact same psychological weaknesses.

When there are glaring flaws in the initial study there really is no reason to attempt to replicate them, now is there?


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Re: Rupert Sheldrake needs to get his PhD revoked. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18481191 -

I like the guy. He seems very interesting


--------------------


spread love
love is everything
2013 finds
medicinal psilocybin tincture drops
cannabis pics

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Re: Rupert Sheldrake needs to get his PhD revoked. [Re: jw2234] * 1
    #18481601 -

jw2234 said:
there is no state of being of "the world"

there is only the inward state of being that you always have identified with

...

fuck the noise i'm not gonna suffer because you believe i should as a "human"! cocksucker dick suck ya!


Thanks for this post, it's a beaut


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: Rupert Sheldrake needs to get his PhD revoked. [Re: hTx]
    #18481766 -

but it appears that his work has widely been disregarded by traditional scientists as pseudoscience that does not merit further inspection.

Wait a second. You just told me his work was published in a peer-reviewed journal (that means scientists reviewed and published it, not disregard it) then you say it was disregarded by scientists (even though they peer-reviewed it and published it).

WTF? Do you read your own posts? I mean, W-T-F?

He was actually published in a peer review journal

Are you fucking joking? An experiment done by a high-school class and published without (lemme say that again because you seem to have missed it) WITHOUT peer-review is it? And on top of that, by your own quote the high-school kids were unable to reproduce Emoto's results.

That's it? OMG.

Nevermind that anyone who can reproduce Emoto's results would instantly win the Nobel Prize and change the course of human events forever, let alone easily win the JREF million dollar prize. :facepalm:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Rupert Sheldrake needs to get his PhD revoked. [Re: Diploid]
    #18481957 -

There ya go again - using logic. When will you learn?


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Re: Rupert Sheldrake needs to get his PhD revoked. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #25720448 -

Quote:
[Sheldrake] turned down Randi's million dollar offer to prove this simple premise.



It that an objective, scientific truth?  How can you know that for certain?


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Re: Rupert Sheldrake needs to get his PhD revoked. [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #25722834 -

Is scientific experiment even necessary in the simple case of paranormal claims (and the metaphysical beliefs that accompany them) ?

If any of the folks who claim these various powers really had them,
they would
1) be very rich
2) not need to tell people
3) not need to sell books and lectures etc. to others
4) and in fact deliberately not tell anyone (you know like superman! )

Since the people in question, all do these things: 1 thru 3,
it seems very unlikely that they actually have these powers.
It seems simple common sense.

But as PT Barnum and others have often pointed out: people want to believe
all kinds of extraordinary and unlikely 'things'.
Hence the books and lectures etc. continue to sell, to the hopeful, the desperate, the uncreative, etc.

In fact real genius is always a personal matter and not transferable, 99% of the time not even to one's own children; let alone teachable to anyone else, and is decidedly not part of some mystical field, we can all tap into. But regardless the books and lectures etc. on the paranormal & metaphysical beliefs will continue to sell.

Edited by laughingdog (01/04/19 12:36 PM)

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Re: Rupert Sheldrake needs to get his PhD revoked. [Re: laughingdog]
    #25723132 -

Additionally as it seems both the Russian and US governments have researched the paranormal for both possible military and spying applications, anyone with real ability would have to be rather foolish to let their abilities be known, unless they wanted to lose all semblance of freedom in what remained of their lives.

(2 recent movies referenced this:
"Hearts in Atlantis" is a 2001 American-Australian mystery drama thriller film directed by Scott Hicks and starring Anthony Hopkins. And also "Solace" with Anthony Hopkins.

Therefore those claiming such ability are either fakes or stupid, or both.
Never the less, some get lots of attention, and a few at least get some monetary profit.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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