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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Sheldrake contradicts self
    #24328883 - 05/18/17 02:05 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Just watched part of a YouTube video wherein he promotes the hypothesis that people can tell when they are being watched. He states that in multitudes of (very poorly conducted) studies, there is a small, albeit significant effect. I won't expose all the flaws in these experiments - and there is no need to, because in the very next breath he states how the majority of security guards and police detectives are largely aware of this effect; not merely believe it, but have regularly witnessed it.

So let me get this straight; it takes tens of thousands of trials to possibly record some miniscule positive effect yet greater than 50% of people in the security business witness this effect day in and day out. Huh? The two (alleged) data sets don't even closely match. Why not get a highly selective group of such professionals together and redo the trials? Any skeptic can answer that - it is because believing it to be so (cop instinct or whatever) does not make it so and it would further expose Sheldrake's nonsense.

And then this effect is also conjectured as a survival mechanism going back to our primitive days. If most of the time you are wrong about being watched (as per the trial numbers) and hunted by a predator, how does that ensure survival? It doesn't!

Sheldrake is a whiner, who when debated, points towards the skeptic as being bigoted, instead of the fact that the data he so loves is inconclusive to support his pet hypotheses.

Summation: Sheldrake is just another True Believer with a degree.


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InvisiblePhantomFrequency
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #24329127 - 05/18/17 06:41 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I got that book for my mom years ago.  I think your argument makes sense.

what do you think about his morphic resonance idea?

I kind of dig it.

whatever one thinks of sheldrake, I think his goal is pretty clear: to find spirit in science again.  and I think that is an admirable goal, and won't come easy, especially with people like sam harris and Richard Dawkins running around telling everyone they are just a gear in a machine, however poetic and beautiful they make the machine out to be.  not to shit on them, they have good things to say, but I don't think its the whole story, because so many parts of our life do not function like, or even resemble, an objectivized, deterministic machine.


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"Man is most nearly himself when he achieves the seriousness of a child at play."

-Heraclitus

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: PhantomFrequency]
    #24329406 - 05/18/17 08:58 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

what do you think about his morphic resonance idea?




I realize you are new here while I have been here for 20 years or so. I have repeatedly pointed out that a hypothesis cannot precede the facts - and there are none. First let us prove telepathy (or other non-local phenomenon), and ONLY THEN do we attempt to figure out a mechanism for such.

Many people here fail to get this "cart before horse" progression. To me it is not any different than trying to figure out why unicorns will only mate under a rainbow.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: PhantomFrequency]
    #24329419 - 05/18/17 09:02 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

whatever one thinks of sheldrake, I think his goal is pretty clear: to find spirit in science again.  and I think that is an admirable goal



I would like to know why you think that way. I am only interested in truth, not what I want to believe is true or that which is false or unproven; yet makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

Quote:

but I don't think its the whole story, because so many parts of our life do not function like, or even resemble, an objectivized, deterministic machine.




Again, mere opinions hold no weight. Make some sort of case for this world view if you want to continue this discussion.


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InvisibleGreen7Alchemist
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #24329437 - 05/18/17 09:11 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

i can tell when someone or something is looking at me,

it feels like my neck muscles tighten and i automatically focus on that person regardless of my motive.

but this is my experience which has trained me to be vigilant and use all my senses, we all share different realities.


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Trip 7
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Sunshine said: "Gangsters are super heroes"

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: Green7Alchemist]
    #24329453 - 05/18/17 09:21 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

:yawn:

Heightened awareness such a seeing movement in your peripheral vision, of hearing a distant noise is a far cry from a controlled test being blindfolded in a soundproof room with strict controls.

If you truly had this sense it would be worth a million dollars in the JREF Challenge, but alas, like thousands before you, you will tell us why it is not worth your time to pursue this free money and turn biology and physics upside down.


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InvisibleGreen7Alchemist
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #24329500 - 05/18/17 09:47 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

yes its heightened awareness, but then there is premonitions and precognition.

but the challenge has been terminated it says.

i would do it man that seems like a cool way to send time.


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Trip 7
THUG - ISLAM - BIBLE
streets disciple
CHRIST IS KING.

Sunshine said: "Gangsters are super heroes"

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: Green7Alchemist]
    #24329507 - 05/18/17 09:51 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

There are other skeptical challenges. I proposed some 30 different $20K Swami Challenges on this board.

Am I staring at you right now at 8:50 AM PCT 5/18/2017?


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InvisibleGreen7Alchemist
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #24329522 - 05/18/17 09:58 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

you tell me, what am i wearing?


--------------------
Trip 7
THUG - ISLAM - BIBLE
streets disciple
CHRIST IS KING.

Sunshine said: "Gangsters are super heroes"

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InvisibleCrazy_Horse
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #24329531 - 05/18/17 10:01 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
There are other skeptical challenges. I proposed some 30 different $20K Swami Challenges on this board.

Am I staring at you right now at 8:50 AM PCT 5/18/2017?




No, $20K please.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: Green7Alchemist]
    #24329541 - 05/18/17 10:04 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Green7Alchemist said:
you tell me, what am i wearing?




Pink, see-thru negligee. :naughty:


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InvisibleGreen7Alchemist
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #24329547 - 05/18/17 10:07 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

wrong!

they're purple


--------------------
Trip 7
THUG - ISLAM - BIBLE
streets disciple
CHRIST IS KING.

Sunshine said: "Gangsters are super heroes"

Edited by Green7Alchemist (05/18/17 10:07 AM)

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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: Crazy_Horse]
    #24329616 - 05/18/17 10:30 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Crazy_Horse said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
There are other skeptical challenges. I proposed some 30 different $20K Swami Challenges on this board.

Am I staring at you right now at 8:50 AM PCT 5/18/2017?




No, $20K please.



Do you suck a nice long dick for $2?


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As far as I assume to know...

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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #24330253 - 05/18/17 02:35 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I am only interested in truth



Why? It's not like you can ever actually know it as a human.

Subjective truth is both irrefutable and unprovable. Objective truth is beyond us.

Seems like a bloody waste of time to argue with anyone about it to me.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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InvisibleCrazy_Horse
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: liquidlounge]
    #24330270 - 05/18/17 02:40 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Quote:

Crazy_Horse said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
There are other skeptical challenges. I proposed some 30 different $20K Swami Challenges on this board.

Am I staring at you right now at 8:50 AM PCT 5/18/2017?




No, $20K please.



Do you suck a nice long dick for $2?






--------------------

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InvisibleGreen7Alchemist
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: Crazy_Horse]
    #24330340 - 05/18/17 02:58 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

i like the direction this thread is taking


--------------------
Trip 7
THUG - ISLAM - BIBLE
streets disciple
CHRIST IS KING.

Sunshine said: "Gangsters are super heroes"

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #24330406 - 05/18/17 03:20 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Subjective truth is both irrefutable and unprovable.



it is quite often irrefutable and I have done so countless times here.

Quote:

Objective truth is beyond us.



And yet we are communication on marvelous devices based upon a decent approximation of such truths.

Quote:

Seems like a bloody waste of time to argue with anyone about it to me.



OK then. We can shut down the forum and all go home. :bye:


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #24330568 - 05/18/17 04:23 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
OK then. We can shut down the forum and all go home. :bye:



Or we could use it to explore our highest potential...


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #24330777 - 05/18/17 05:55 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

How do know when we have reached our highest potential?

:spock:


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #24330939 - 05/18/17 06:51 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I really wouldn't know in terms of 'we'.

What I do know is that I know how it feels to be near it, and I'd bet riffing on people is kinda going in the opposite direction.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #24331289 - 05/18/17 09:13 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
How do know when we have reached our highest potential?

:spock:



Quote:

In the middle of difficulty lives opportunity




This Sheldrake stuff seems wonky..
Quote:

“he suggests that scientists reject the notion that animals have consciousness, despite the fact that it’s generally accepted that animals have some form of consciousness, and there’s much research and literature exploring the idea.”
http://blog.ted.com/open-for-discussion-graham-hancock-and-rupert-sheldrake/




2:00-5:00


Though I do think there could be merit to the idea that placebo's can work but not alternative medicines like homeopathy.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #24331388 - 05/18/17 09:53 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

and I'd bet riffing on people is kinda going in the opposite direction.




Interesting that you find Carlin, a master of riff, to be one of your heroes.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #24331423 - 05/18/17 10:03 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

He's not. My hero's are Huxley and Shulgin. I just really like the way Carlin sees the world.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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InvisiblePhantomFrequency
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #24332039 - 05/19/17 04:21 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

whatever one thinks of sheldrake, I think his goal is pretty clear: to find spirit in science again.  and I think that is an admirable goal



I would like to know why you think that way. I am only interested in truth, not what I want to believe is true or that which is false or unproven; yet makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

Quote:

but I don't think its the whole story, because so many parts of our life do not function like, or even resemble, an objectivized, deterministic machine.




Again, mere opinions hold no weight. Make some sort of case for this world view if you want to continue this discussion.




im not anti science, but I'm sure this will come off that way...

but what you believe IS what you want to believe...right?  I'm sure your capable of changing your mind right now, and right now, and right now?  I'm interested in "truth" too, but not in the same way as you because I don't believe that there can be that kind of a truth, from religion, science, or anything other ideological system. 

as far as "my opinion holding no weight" on that, are you telling me your life is completely determined, and all aspects of you are able to be objectified, so much to the point that someone can come up with a theory that explains the totality of it?  that sounds like no human I have ever known.

please don't misunderstand my sentiment as some spiritual call to arms or something.  I'm not looking for a higher power here, I'm not looking for some easy way out.

what I want to point out is that, in the same way religion cast a shadow over us and the way we experienced the world for AGES, reductionism (under the guise of "science") is casting its shadow.  but its the opposite of a loose "faith" that helps us see our place in the world, its a strict "faith" that our problems, our world, and our lives can all be reduced to simple phenomenon that can be fixed with technology.  I think both are equally dangerous.

  we are neither at the whim of some all mighty creator nor are we just some gears in a determined predictable machine.


--------------------


"Man is most nearly himself when he achieves the seriousness of a child at play."

-Heraclitus

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Offlineviktor
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Re: Sheldrake contradicts self [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 2
    #24332086 - 05/19/17 05:02 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Many people here fail to get this "cart before horse" progression.




Says the guy who believes, without any evidence at all, that the brain generates consciousness. :facepalm:


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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