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NSA Leaker Edward Snowden TREASON Poll
    #18410184 -

Do you think that what Edward Snowden did makes him a traitor?

As far as leaking information about the NSA spying on Americans, I deem him a patriot.

Confirming that the U.S. hacks China and telling the Chinese about it is a bit traitorous IMO.

Although I feel his second act was traitorous, it's unfortunate because he's just trying to speak the truth.

The truth is information like that is damaging in a world where ultimate truths do not triumph.

I think it would have been more intelligent of him to just expose the internal U.S. violations. If good eventually came of it, he'd go down as a hero in the history books.

:2cents:
Is Edward Snowden a traitor?
You may choose only one
Does proving that the NSA spies on Americans make Edward Snowden a traitor?
You may choose only one
Does telling China that the U.S. hacks them make Edward Snowden a traitor?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from 06/12/13 04:06 PM until the end of time

View the results of this poll | Filter by response



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Re: NSA Leaker Edward Snowden TREASON Poll [Re: Limb0] * 1
    #18410213 -

I agree with you man. The guy gave up everything including a good job and woman to expose our governments' spying on us. Sounds patriotic to me. Besides, according to our Constitution, 'treason' can only refer to aiding and abetting an enemy with whom the US is actively engaged in war.


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I have never possessed nor consumed any illegal substances. Any statement or implication to the contrary is null and void, and just downright silly.

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Re: NSA Leaker Edward Snowden TREASON Poll [Re: cloudboy]
    #18410247 -

There's no war, but providing secrets to a foreign power is traitorous IMO.
And technically there is a cyber war of sorts going on.

Dude done goofed telling China we hack them. :picard:

It's like your best friend going behind your back and exposing a secret to a frenemy.

It's pretty srs.


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Re: NSA Leaker Edward Snowden TREASON Poll [Re: Limb0]
    #18410253 -

Well, think about it this way. If it is true what they say about the gov and that it dislikes its own kind for leaking valuable information to the point where they will assassinate you for doing so, i'd say its an even trade.

did he really tell china that the us hacked them?

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Re: NSA Leaker Edward Snowden TREASON Poll [Re: zZZz]
    #18410323 -

Yes, he did.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/jun/09/nsa-whistleblower-edward-snowden-interview-video

But who cares? I do, you do, hell probably even Pris actually cares; but no one is doing a damned thing about it. This is not the first whistleblower from an intelligence community. There have been hundreds of them. However, since the US Federal Government doesn't care to entertain the idea they are spying on us, the mainstream media doesn't give these damn whisteblowers but a couple of days - 2 weeks tops, no one else seems to be concerned with the fact this really is a police state. The incarceration rate in America is unmatched and coincidentally our phones are tapped, too. :smirk:

It is worrisome that literally no one gives a shit.

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Re: NSA Leaker Edward Snowden TREASON Poll [Re: Limb0] * 5
    #18410340 -

This is why I love the shroomery. Fucking 90% of people around me IRL are sheep who can't think for themselves. You guys are cool


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The happiness consists in realizing that it is all a great strange dream.

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Re: NSA Leaker Edward Snowden TREASON Poll [Re: Limb0]
    #18410372 -

Everyone tries to hack each other, and every country spies on it's people. This guy was just confirming the obvious.

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Re: NSA Leaker Edward Snowden TREASON Poll [Re: Limb0]
    #18410375 -

Limb0 said:
There's no war, but providing secrets to a foreign power is traitorous IMO.
And technically there is a cyber war of sorts going on.

Dude done goofed telling China we hack them. :picard:

It's like your best friend going behind your back and exposing a secret to a frenemy.

It's pretty srs.


Im sure they're well aware of the US spying on them. The US is well aware of Chinas (successful) efforts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GhostNet

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Re: NSA Leaker Edward Snowden TREASON Poll [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #18410596 -

Have you heard the latest?  The IRS got NSA help to get its hands on more than 60,000,000 medical records.  Now what possible use would the IRS have for medical records - other than blackmail and intimidation?

:jacked:


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There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.

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Re: NSA Leaker Edward Snowden TREASON Poll [Re: OZA]
    #18410627 -

I don't think it's fair to call him a traitor since he didn't expose anything. Look up Room 641A. PBS even did a show on this. It's one of the locations where the US government gathers the world's internet traffic to be saved permanently. It's located inside an AT&T data center, and it started operations in 2003 and was exposed in 2006. There has been plenty of more 'hints' along the way like the NSA's massive Utah based data center currently being built. You just had to ask yourself, "What would a US spy agency need with 53,68,709,120 GB of storage?"

The US hacking China isn't news either. China has been saying the US hacks them for years though US citizens have dismissed it because the NSA wouldn't confirm it. Of course they wouldn't confirm it. He forced US confirmation.

Finally, the Snowden dude gave the top secret papers to the newspaper, and they waited a year to publish the story. During that time what do you think the newspaper was doing? They were seeking the US government's approval to release the story. We're only getting to see it because it received the government's blessings.

The only thing it did is give just one more confirmation, one more public announcement that something we all knew was happening is still happening. Unless he decided to permanently move overseas and said to himself, "Well now, that I'm leaving, might as well release this information", I think he's an idiot. He gave up his way of life and US based visitation with friends and family to expose nothing.


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Re: NSA Leaker Edward Snowden TREASON Poll [Re: 1ve5w4hu]
    #18410656 -

I figured the NSA was taping the internet, this confirms it though.  They never admitted to a lot of the shit that was leaked, this is a lot bigger than you are admitting to.  The shit with the phones isn't anything new though.


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Re: NSA Leaker Edward Snowden TREASON Poll [Re: fapjack]
    #18410684 -

SoreSpore said:
Yes, he did.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/jun/09/nsa-whistleblower-edward-snowden-interview-video

But who cares? I do, you do, hell probably even Pris actually cares; but no one is doing a damned thing about it. This is not the first whistleblower from an intelligence community. There have been hundreds of them. However, since the US Federal Government doesn't care to entertain the idea they are spying on us, the mainstream media doesn't give these damn whisteblowers but a couple of days - 2 weeks tops, no one else seems to be concerned with the fact this really is a police state. The incarceration rate in America is unmatched and coincidentally our phones are tapped, too. :smirk:

It is worrisome that literally no one gives a shit.


So you're just speculating that phone tapping leads to an increased incarceration rate, right? I don't think there's a causal relationship there like you're trying to suggest. I think our prison problems are more because it's a private industry and those who profit off of it invest in making it a large and larger complex.

I can't see how data collection is "spying" for the record. Spying usually means data collection for nefarious purposes. I haven't seen anything about how the data has been used nefariously, but I'd be interested if you have any concrete info on that.

Do you care that your wireless company taps your phone and all your photos and texts are saved? Plus facebook owns your information and google tracks all your searches to target ads to you. That's MUCH more frightening to me than any government involvement.

fapjack said:
I figured the NSA was taping the internet, this confirms it though.  They never admitted to a lot of the shit that was leaked, this is a lot bigger than you are admitting to.  The shit with the phones isn't anything new though.


Taping the internet... what do you mean? The internet is public. There's never been an illusion of security on the internet, it should be VERY clear that anything you're sharing on the internet is about as safe as if you're shouting it in public because you're basically entering anything you add to the internet to public record. Any average joe can get tons of information of any of us via the internet. No surprise that the government is doing this for purposes of intelligence gathering.


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Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.


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Re: NSA Leaker Edward Snowden TREASON Poll [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #18410700 -

The internet is not public, though a lot of it is.  You hack someone's webiste/email and see how public it is.  Ask any of the hackers in prison right now if you can look at whatever the fuck you want to online.


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Re: NSA Leaker Edward Snowden TREASON Poll [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #18410720 -

JoieDeVivre said:
Plus facebook owns your information and google tracks all your searches to target ads to you. That's MUCH more frightening to me than any government involvement.



Right... Have you heard of PRISM? They have access to all of Facebook and Google's info, plus others.

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Re: NSA Leaker Edward Snowden TREASON Poll [Re: SoreSpore]
    #18410758 -

Yeah, but most info on facebook is already publicly accessible. I trust an agency contracted through the government more than the companies that use the info for trying to advertise to me but that's because I know most of it going to the government is used to studying statistics about humans and internet use and how that affects society. I think that's incredibly interesting and useful. I've seen a lot of TED talks videos about studying how people make connections on social networks and what they discuss and you can track like, how information and discussion about any specific world event is spread and how it grows and changes and you can really understand public perception much better than anything like opinion polls. This is so applicable in neuroscience and understanding human interactions. 

This is me speaking from a really scientific perspective on the issue and I do think we need to be wary of nefarious uses of this data collection, I just haven't seen any evidence of that yet so I'm in favor of the positive applications. :shrug:

Do you mean PRISM have the private info and message logs or what? If it's just public posts and the like I support it even more, because why should frivolous internet posts be used to better our understanding of how people think?


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Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.


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Re: NSA Leaker Edward Snowden TREASON Poll [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #18410873 -

PRISM allows full access to any account held by many different providers; whether it is cloud files, emails, calendar, PM's, etc. The issue is that with the amount of data they know about you individually, they can compile a case against you aimed any direction they want. Just because you don't do anything illegal now, what happens if they decide something you do should now be prohibited?

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Re: NSA Leaker Edward Snowden TREASON Poll [Re: SoreSpore]
    #18410886 -

Snowden is a fucking patriot.  Obama is the traitor.


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Re: NSA Leaker Edward Snowden TREASON Poll [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #18410901 -

If they prosecute Snowden, then Obama should be prosecuted for releasing information in relation to Osama Bin Ladin's raid; including prosecution for the lives he endangered of the nations most elite.

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Re: NSA Leaker Edward Snowden TREASON Poll [Re: Limb0]
    #18410929 -

Quote:
"Let me say it as simply as I can: Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."
-Barack Obama, January 21, 2009



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+1 Post ٩(̾๏̮̮̃̾๏̃̾)۶


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Re: NSA Leaker Edward Snowden TREASON Poll [Re: JoieDeVivre] * 2
    #18410950 -

JoieDeVivre said:
Yeah, but most info on facebook is already publicly accessible. I trust an agency contracted through the government more than the companies that use the info for trying to advertise to me but that's because I know most of it going to the government is used to studying statistics about humans and internet use and how that affects society. I think that's incredibly interesting and useful. I've seen a lot of TED talks videos about studying how people make connections on social networks and what they discuss and you can track like, how information and discussion about any specific world event is spread and how it grows and changes and you can really understand public perception much better than anything like opinion polls. This is so applicable in neuroscience and understanding human interactions. 

This is me speaking from a really scientific perspective on the issue and I do think we need to be wary of nefarious uses of this data collection, I just haven't seen any evidence of that yet so I'm in favor of the positive applications. :shrug:

Do you mean PRISM have the private info and message logs or what? If it's just public posts and the like I support it even more, because why should frivolous internet posts be used to better our understanding of how people think?


Facebook is not in control of laws. The government has a far greater potential to abuse this system then a corporation ever could because they are the ones in power. They make up the laws and they control the police force that enforces them. To give you a hypothetical say the government issues a curfew of 10pm, people dont like it. They naturally attempt to organize against it, but how? Through digital medium, which the government constantly monitors. The government finds out about their plans and jails everyone involved for conspiring against the government. Thats just a hypothetical but It gives you an idea of what kind of power such comprehensive records gives the government Its a really un-nerving idea that the government could have records of every phone call, every message, and everything you;ve ever done on the internet. Its something thats straight out of 1984. The current government might not be that authoritative, but what happens if one gets in? What happens id they do start becoming authoritative. This data gives an incredible ability to manipulate and change society. Thats not something I or many people I know of are exactly comfortable with. You know what made it so easy for the Nazis to round up jews in the Netherlands? Comprehensive records about religious affiliations. These records have a far, far greater potential for abuse then that. They track everything from who you associate with, to instances of infidelity, weird habits and anything and everything anyone wishing to manipulate you could ever ask for. Is that really something your willing to roll over for on the silly notion that it will not and cannot be abused? Dont be so fucking naive.

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