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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
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Re: Man refuses to go to Iraq: Poll [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #6426011 - 01/04/07 10:19 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

Please, just shut your mouth. Its people like you that give the conservatives ammunition against anyone who is against the military action in Iraq.


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Man refuses to go to Iraq: Poll [Re: adrug]
    #6426032 - 01/04/07 10:25 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

I think they get their ammunition wherever the fuck they want because people are too cowardly to call them 'a bunch of murdering cunts'.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Man refuses to go to Iraq: Poll [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #6427442 - 01/05/07 11:45 AM (15 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

ExplosiveMango said:
Hardly. The government should no longer be obeyed until it can obey the people.

You're living under the next Hitler, only this one is decentralized, spread between a handful of individuals.

No obedience to this monster is irrelevant to anyone's freedom of choice.




This poll was not about the corruption of our government. I will agree with you the there is more than enough corruption to go around in the US government.

This poll was about a soldier not following orders.

He volunteered

No one twisted his arm to join the military. He went in with the intent of going to war. Trying to weasel his way out of it now makes him a traitor and he should be sent to prison for it.

The military spends lots of money to train these young men. For the military to loose its investment, is a breach of contract. The government has you by the balls for as long as you signed up for.

Quote:

It's never to late to change your mind




It is once you raise your right hand and take an oath to serve in the military. You can sign your name all day and none of it means shit until you take that oath......He knew this. When you join the military you give away all your rights.

Quote:

... especially when you're about to go murder a human being...




:whatever: he signed up to go to war and kill human beings, he is trying to default on his contract.


Quote:

I think it's high time slavery was abolished... even in the military...

I also think any resistance against Bush is good resistance.




Trying to compare an all volunteer military with slavery is ignorance at its finest.

Defaulting on a contract with the military, is not "resisting Bush" :rolleyes:
Bush could be killed tomorrow (I wish) but the contract he has with the military still stands. Him doing this is not going to harm anyone but himself.


Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
I'm glad he's doing this. Fuck the war. Good they wasted the money training him and now he's giving them a nice solid fuck off. Good if he's hurting morale. Good that he's calling the war illegal because it fucking is. The UN opposed it from the get go. Anyone who joins the military should take the money if it's what they want and roll the fuck out if it's bullshit.




I seriously doubt he gets away with this little prank. Probably get booted out with a dis-honorable discharge (good luck finding a decent job) ......if he is lucky.

His ass needs to either be shipped straight to the front lines in Iraq or sent to prison for the remainder of his tour.

Quote:

Who fucking cares anyway? The point is I'm glad this pisses off the people it pisses off because they're a bunch of cunts anyway.




:whatever: You sound pretty pissed off about the situation your self...are you a cunt too?


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Invisibleelsig
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Re: Man refuses to go to Iraq: Poll [Re: niteowl]
    #6427455 - 01/05/07 11:52 AM (15 years, 19 days ago)

i think he did the right thing simply because every individual should have the right to change their mind , especially when it comes to serious buisness that may cost you your life.


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Man refuses to go to Iraq: Poll [Re: niteowl]
    #6427456 - 01/05/07 11:54 AM (15 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

he signed up to go to war and kill human beings, he is trying to default on his contract.




You wouldn't think his contract was more important than his principles if he was ordered to go murder you and your family.


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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: Man refuses to go to Iraq: Poll [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #6427651 - 01/05/07 01:28 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

I don't think a human being should be allowed to sign their life away in a contract niteowl. My point of view is that simple. I consider that slavery and I think it should be made illegal.

I know you think you own that man until you "let go of his balls", I don't think you do. I think he owns himself. I'm sorry you can't understand my point of view.

Making the statement that my point of view is 'ignorant' is a very good representation of the sort of person you are, and the sort of person that considers a man's life a piece of property. It is painfully clear that I have a well formulated opinion, regardless of how it agrees with yours. Your insulting nature reveals the vulnerability of your argument in any context other than force.

PS: I'm afraid to hear your definition of a volunteer... I imagine it would have some interesting parallels with Bush's definition of torture...


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The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.


Edited by ExplosiveMango (01/05/07 01:40 PM)


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Man refuses to go to Iraq: Poll [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #6427690 - 01/05/07 01:41 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

Great post EM!!!

Quote:

I don't think a human being should be allowed to sign their life away in a contract niteowl. My point of view is that simple. I consider that slavery and I think it should be made illegal.

I know you think you own that man until you "let go of his balls", I don't think you do. I think he owns himself.




Very well said and I agree 100%


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Man refuses to go to Iraq: Poll [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #6427692 - 01/05/07 01:42 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

He owns his own life, which is exactly how he volunteered. People have free will to do whatever they please, whether its doing drugs, committing suicide, or signing a binding contract.

He is an adult who entered the armed forces under his own volition. This does not constitute slavery.


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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: Man refuses to go to Iraq: Poll [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #6427698 - 01/05/07 01:43 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

And by the way, what you said about him deserving a dishonorable discharge- I agree completely, that's exactly what he should get. And he should be proud to be discharged from an organization guilty of such disgusting crimes.


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Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Man refuses to go to Iraq: Poll [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #6427705 - 01/05/07 01:45 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

ExplosiveMango said:
And by the way, what you said about him deserving a dishonorable discharge- I agree completely, that's exactly what he should get. And he should be proud to be discharged from an organization guilty of such disgusting crimes.




HELL YEAH!!!!


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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: Man refuses to go to Iraq: Poll [Re: Redstorm]
    #6427706 - 01/05/07 01:45 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
He owns his own life, which is exactly how he volunteered.




He owns his own life... thus he may relinquish ownership of it?
Your argument fails immediately.


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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: Man refuses to go to Iraq: Poll [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #6427709 - 01/05/07 01:46 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
Quote:

ExplosiveMango said:
And by the way, what you said about him deserving a dishonorable discharge- I agree completely, that's exactly what he should get. And he should be proud to be discharged from an organization guilty of such disgusting crimes.




HELL YEAH!!!!




:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:

EDIT: hehe but lets not hijack the thread too much :wink:


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Know your self.
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The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.


Edited by ExplosiveMango (01/05/07 02:13 PM)


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Man refuses to go to Iraq: Poll [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #6427714 - 01/05/07 01:47 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

He is an adult who entered the armed forces under his own volition. This does not constitute slavery.




What if someone volunteered to be a slave and then after 10 years of service changed his mind? Would he be a slave?


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Man refuses to go to Iraq: Poll [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #6427715 - 01/05/07 01:47 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

It certainly does not. People choose to relinquish things they own everyday: money, property, and rights. If you foolish enough to sign over your life, why is this any different from any other sort of property?


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Man refuses to go to Iraq: Poll [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #6427722 - 01/05/07 01:51 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
Quote:

He is an adult who entered the armed forces under his own volition. This does not constitute slavery.




What if someone volunteered to be a slave and then after 10 years of service changed his mind? Would he be a slave?




First off, you don't volunteer to be a slave. Secondly, when you sign a contract with the military, you agree to serve for a certain time period. If this tenth year is after the end of your contract, then there is no problem.

I have a feeling you people would be spouting different rhetoric if it was the government breaking the contract. Say the government just decided out of nowhere that they were not going to pay a theoretical soldier, breaking the contract after he had invested a great amount of his time in the armed forces. What would you say then?


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Man refuses to go to Iraq: Poll [Re: Redstorm]
    #6427723 - 01/05/07 01:51 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
It certainly does not. People choose to relinquish things they own everyday: money, property, and rights. If you foolish enough to sign over your life, why is this any different from any other sort of property?




Because his intrinsic right to self-sovereignty is infinitely more meaningful than some lame-ass government 'contract'.


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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: Man refuses to go to Iraq: Poll [Re: Redstorm]
    #6427728 - 01/05/07 01:52 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
It certainly does not. People choose to relinquish things they own everyday: money, property, and rights. If you foolish enough to sign over your life, why is this any different from any other sort of property?




I think you expressed your opinion more accurately here.

You believe a man's life s possessable property, I do not.

If you were owned, perhaps you would not.


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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: Man refuses to go to Iraq: Poll [Re: Redstorm]
    #6427738 - 01/05/07 01:55 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
Quote:

He is an adult who entered the armed forces under his own volition. This does not constitute slavery.




What if someone volunteered to be a slave and then after 10 years of service changed his mind? Would he be a slave?




First off, you don't volunteer to be a slave. Secondly, when you sign a contract with the military, you agree to serve for a certain time period. If this tenth year is after the end of your contract, then there is no problem.

I have a feeling you people would be spouting different rhetoric if it was the government breaking the contract. Say the government just decided out of nowhere that they were not going to pay a theoretical soldier, breaking the contract after he had invested a great amount of his time in the armed forces. What would you say then?




I don't understand why you believe this is similar...
I would consider this a breach of contract... I consider money in return for employment a fair exchange that should be allowed between two willing parties...

What does this have to do with whether or not a man's life may be possessed?


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Man refuses to go to Iraq: Poll [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #6427742 - 01/05/07 01:56 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
It certainly does not. People choose to relinquish things they own everyday: money, property, and rights. If you foolish enough to sign over your life, why is this any different from any other sort of property?




Because his intrinsic right to self-sovereignty is infinitely more meaningful than some lame-ass government 'contract'.




Should I refuse to pay my credit card bills because I feel my belongings are mine and that the CC companies have no legitimate stake in them? Should people be able to break contracts willy-nilly after they sign into them because they realize afterwards that it wasn't a good decision? The man made a life decision that he obviously did not think long enough about and it's coming to bite him in the ass now.


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Man refuses to go to Iraq: Poll [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #6427743 - 01/05/07 01:56 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

I have a feeling you people would be spouting different rhetoric if it was the government breaking the contract. Say the government just decided out of nowhere that they were not going to pay a theoretical soldier, breaking the contract after he had invested a great amount of his time in the armed forces. What would you say then?




I would support the individual over the machine the same way I am now. My belief system isn't based in a belief in contracts it's based in the belief that the military, as an institution, is evil. I will always side against the military and I don't care if you can line it up in a way that makes me seem inconsistent.


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