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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Immigrant Welfare Scandal Continues
    #1840344 - 08/22/03 12:58 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Read the article here.
Some highlights...

Nearly one in five (18.6%) immigrant households receive Medicaid, compared to nearly one in eight (13.1%) households headed by a U.S. native.

Children in immigrant households are two and a half times more likely to get subsidized school lunch benefits (15.5%) than children in native households (5.8%)

Immigrant households are more than quarter more likely to receive food stamps than native-born households (6.7% immigrant households v. 5.3%)

Immigrants are a third more likely to be on SSI (Supplemental Security Income) than the native-born (5.3% v. 3.9%)

Immigrants receive the EITC (Earned Income Tax Credit) at nearly twice the rate of natives?25.5% of immigrant households versus 13.2% of native households.



--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Immigrant Welfare Scandal Continues [Re: Autonomous]
    #1840369 - 08/22/03 01:05 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

So?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: Immigrant Welfare Scandal Continues [Re: Autonomous]
    #1840382 - 08/22/03 01:08 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

There is no doubt that the INS policy needs a little, ahem, revamping.

Less nepotism, more merit-based immigration.  :smile:

Nice thread.

We aren't the policeman of the world anymore than we are its garbage dumpster.


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Immigrant Welfare Scandal Continues [Re: silversoul7]
    #1840469 - 08/22/03 01:34 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
So?



Think about it.

You are young enough where you will be paying the price (a very dear price) when the U.S. becomes bankrupt from excessive spending...
  • Is it good to bring people into your country when they will be a burden on the system?
  • How much more debt will the government be able to incur while giving enormous handouts to all comers?
  • What will happen when the baby boom generation retires en masse?
  • What will happen when foreigners stop buying U.S. government debt instruments?
  • What will happen if our economic downturn continues and worsens? In such cases there is an increase in government expenditures but a decrease in receipts.

A country cannot spend itself into prosperity, but it can spend itself into collapse.


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Immigrant Welfare Scandal Continues [Re: Autonomous]
    #1840506 - 08/22/03 01:48 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

We have spent ourselves into prosperity before, remember the huge deficits we ran during the Reagan administration? They were nearly as large as they are now. I saw an interview with Greenspan a couple of weeks ago, when he talked about this very thing. The economy has already started to turn around, and the recession was one of the shortest of all time.


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Immigrant Welfare Scandal Continues [Re: shakta]
    #1840535 - 08/22/03 02:00 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
We have spent ourselves into prosperity before, remember the huge deficits we ran during the Reagan administration?



Those debts are yet to be paid. How will they be paid? By either future tax increases, monetary inflation or both. It is immoral and ignorant to spend the future earnings of the unborn. Economic cycles do not turn in a few years, it took decades for communism to collapse from such foolishness. We are headed down the same road albeit more slowly.

Quote:

They were nearly as large as they are now.



Please provide some proof. What was the amount of debt per person then and now?

Quote:

I saw an interview with Greenspan a couple of weeks ago, when he talked about this very thing. The economy has already started to turn around, and the recession was one of the shortest of all time.



Greenspan is still working, many others are not. Vocalizing lies does not make them true. We are headed for a very big fall, in no small part engineered through Greenspan's monetary policies.


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Immigrant Welfare Scandal Continues [Re: Autonomous]
    #1840539 - 08/22/03 02:02 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I disagree completely. I am talking about national deficits here. Were we not just in a suplus a couple of years ago? If so, how are those debts still owed?


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Immigrant Welfare Scandal Continues [Re: shakta]
    #1840557 - 08/22/03 02:07 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

umm. deficit spending is annual, the national debt is cumulative, they're not the same thing.


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Immigrant Welfare Scandal Continues [Re: shakta]
    #1840558 - 08/22/03 02:07 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You've fallen prey to the government smoke and mirrors game. A couple of years during the Clinton administration, the U.S. did not have to borrow extra money for on budget items, however debts have continued to pile up in other areas and older debts were not paid off but refinanced.

Would you care to address some of the other questions and points that I brought up to SilverSoul?
  • Is it good to bring people into your country when they will be a burden on the system?
  • How much more debt will the government be able to incur while giving enormous handouts to all comers?
  • What will happen when the baby boom generation retires en masse?
  • What will happen when foreigners stop buying U.S. government debt instruments?
  • What will happen if our economic downturn continues and worsens? In such cases there is an increase in government expenditures but a decrease in receipts.



--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Immigrant Welfare Scandal Continues [Re: shakta]
    #1840560 - 08/22/03 02:07 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Here read this. It states my case perfectly pretty much, and I am lazy. :wink:

http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_nugent/nugent021203.asp


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Immigrant Welfare Scandal Continues [Re: shakta]
    #1840575 - 08/22/03 02:12 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Tom Nugent's article does not address any of the points that I brought up, would you care to?


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Immigrant Welfare Scandal Continues [Re: Autonomous]
    #1840602 - 08/22/03 02:19 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I think most of your points assume that we are doomed because we are running a large defecit, so I think it addresses most of them well. As far as your immigrant questions go, I think we should seal off our borders, and kick out the illegals. If someone wants to come here they should do it legally. We both know that this is not going to happen until the majority of the country stands up and bitches about it. No one running for office, that has a chance, wants to piss off the Hispanics.


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Immigrant Welfare Scandal Continues [Re: shakta]
    #1840727 - 08/22/03 02:55 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
I think most of your points assume that we are doomed because we are running a large defecit, so I think it addresses most of them well.



Actually, they are mostly questions that I would like to get some well thought out answers to. The article does not address them at all, it is an apologist's essay for bad public policy. The current generation is wrong and selfish to burden those who do not yet have the right to vote with the bill of their expensive public policies. It is wrong for Democrats to do it and it is wrong for Republicans to do it.


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Immigrant Welfare Scandal Continues [Re: Autonomous]
    #1840740 - 08/22/03 02:57 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The fact remains that the last giant defecit dissapeared in the 90s. Do you have a case that shows the article I posted not to be true? You calling it an apolgists essay, doesn't seem very well thought out, when recent history seems to bear it out as being true.


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Immigrant Welfare Scandal Continues [Re: shakta]
    #1840775 - 08/22/03 03:09 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
The fact remains that the last giant defecit dissapeared in the 90s.



The facts show otherwise, you are wrong and our national DEBT is greater than ever.

The reason I brought up those points/questions up was to prompt others to think about things, the posting of that link does not show that you have given the subject critical thought. If you refuse to contemplate the questions why do you bother to respond?


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Immigrant Welfare Scandal Continues [Re: Autonomous]
    #1840800 - 08/22/03 03:20 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I thought I was. So sorry to have offended you. I was just trying to discuss it with you. :rolleyes:


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Immigrant Welfare Scandal Continues [Re: shakta]
    #1840814 - 08/22/03 03:23 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The fact remains that the last giant defecit dissapeared in the 90s

oh yeah, all our problems will dissapear.

did you read what I posted earlier? you're confusing deficit spending with the national debt. the debt incurred (due to deficit spending) in the 80's is still with us even though the deficit spending dissapeared in the 90's. and todays deficits will add even more to the national debt, even if the economy turns around and we get into surpluses again.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Immigrant Welfare Scandal Continues [Re: shakta]
    #1840830 - 08/22/03 03:28 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

here's the national debt as of now:



it's not gonna go away after a few years of surpluses.


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Immigrant Welfare Scandal Continues [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1840834 - 08/22/03 03:29 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You two are right. I was confused on the subject. As far as deficit spending goes, I think the article shows the truth about that. Now that I understand the difference I agree with you Auto. The part I find funny about it are the projected deficits and surpluses in the budget that have been predicted in the last several years. The projections swing so far either way in a relatively short time. I think projecting either is kind of ridiculous, since it all depends on what they will spend and receive in any given year.

Since I now understand the difference between debt and the budget, I have a few questions. Isn't most of the debt owed to people who own bonds? If so, how does that work?


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Immigrant Welfare Scandal Continues [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1840850 - 08/22/03 03:34 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Assuming there are 300 million people in the country, the debt is about $22,000 for each of them. That sucks. So basically, we need to fix the economy, start penny-pinching in Washington, and pay it down? The reason I say improve the economy first is because the government would be able to pay more on the debt if it had more coming in.


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