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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1754514 - 07/28/03 02:11 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Fine, I believe welfare is a big mistake. I think it encourages laziness from those who collect it, bitterness from those who are forced to pay taxes for it, and it has led to a decline in the family as the benefits are higher for single parent families. There should be no welfare, social security, or medicare.

That's fine - that's your opinion and opinions are like assholes.

If the writers of the amendments did mean welfare then I take my hat off to them. They had the foresight to realise that without it slavery would rapidly be re-introduced and wages driven down for all. Nike didn't build their factories in south east asia because they WANTED to, they did it because they couldn't get away with paying 10 cents an hour in the US. Take away welfare and they'll be back in the US paying 10 cents.


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OnlineBaby_Hitler
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: Xlea321]
    #1754681 - 07/28/03 04:00 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

That's assuming you also take away Minimum wage.

Isn't having Both Minimum wage, and welfare kind of redundant?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1754942 - 07/28/03 05:36 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
^^^ a capitalist stands up for a monopolized industry.

happens more and more these days



I'm sorry you're not aware of industrial uses for diamonds, but if you're capable of using a search engine, you'll have no trouble finding some.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: monoamine]
    #1754957 - 07/28/03 05:39 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

grandmasterfat said:
Quote:

And the diamond industry keeps many employed.




Yeah,mainly through "slave labor".



Really? The mine owners own their workers and force them to work?

Perhaps our definition of slave differs.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: Xlea321]
    #1754983 - 07/28/03 05:45 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I don't ignore it. What's being ignored, by you, is the words of those who wrote the document, the definition of the time for the word militia, and the fact that numerous court decisions have stated that the words "the people" mean the same thing in all of the first batch of amendments where that term appears. That it is a right of the PEOPLE

It's not to hard to see, unless you do not wish to.

Now for you to ignore all that because you don't like the amendment and the way it's written, means nothing.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: Xlea321]
    #1755129 - 07/28/03 06:59 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Looking at what the amendment actually says is the only correct way of interpreting it.





So then I guess you are one of those people who believe that flag burning is not protected by the first ammendment since it is not "speech".


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1755721 - 07/28/03 12:14 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Now for you to ignore all that because you don't like the amendment and the way it's written, means nothing.

On the contrary, I think it's a fine, well-written amendment that stands up to no end of misinterpretation by the likes of the NRA.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: Xlea321]
    #1755771 - 07/28/03 12:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Then it's a good thing that the majority of the government, the majority of the courts, the majority of legal scholars, those who actually wrote the bill of rights, and the majority of the citizens of the United States see it differently.

And without a pre-conceived notion, and with a willingness to both read and admit you're wrong, so would you.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1755800 - 07/28/03 12:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

grandmasterfat said:
Quote:

And the diamond industry keeps many employed.




Yeah,mainly through "slave labor".



Really? The mine owners own their workers and force them to work?

Perhaps our definition of slave differs.



Where Diamonds Come From


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: silversoul7]
    #1755819 - 07/28/03 12:55 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

While I admit to not reading the "further information" links on that page, perhaps you could show me where on that page the word slave or slavery appears?

Didn't think so.

I even did a search on it using the word force, as in forced or made to work.

Surprise, it's not there either.

You're still trying way too hard. At least make a decent attempt.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1755824 - 07/28/03 12:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Show me where I said they used slave labor. :smirk:


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1755835 - 07/28/03 01:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

no, seriously, luvdem, I thought that debeers owned all the diamond mines in the world in an attempt to keep their value artificially high.

am I wrong?

and, yes, I know they use the non-jewlry grade ones for drill bits and such.


--------------------
'You can go to a hospital
Get yourself cleaned out.'


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: silversoul7]
    #1755836 - 07/28/03 01:02 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Show me where I said they used slave labor. :smirk: 




Did you say it directly? Nope.

You did however quote two posts where slave labor was the main point.

Either you have failed miserably in conversational skills, or you just don't care enough to follow along.

So, if your happy with your "where did I say it" response, good for you.

You'll need better abilities than that to get by in life.

Keep trying. You'll catch on.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1755843 - 07/28/03 01:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I was merely pointing out the human rights abuses that go on in the diamond industry. It may not be slave labor, but it's not much better.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1755845 - 07/28/03 01:04 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
no, seriously, luvdem, I thought that debeers owned all the diamond mines in the world in an attempt to keep their value artificially high.



I'd be very surprised if it was ALL the mines.

Quote:

am I wrong?



I don't know. Can you show me they do actually own all the diamond mines in the world?

Quote:

and, yes, I know they use the non-jewlry grade ones for drill bits and such.



Good. Then you're a step ahead of a whole shitload of people.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: silversoul7]
    #1755850 - 07/28/03 01:06 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I was merely pointing out the human rights abuses that go on in the diamond industry. It may not be slave labor, but it's not much better.


If human rights abuses were the thrust of your post, why quote two posts talking about slave labor and then a link to a page with no mention of slave labor at all?

Weak. That's why I say you try too hard.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1755864 - 07/28/03 01:10 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I was pointing out to both of you--one saying that diamonds come from slave labor, while you stuck up for the diamond industry--the reality of the diamond trade.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1755867 - 07/28/03 01:11 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

"I don't know. Can you show me they do actually own all the diamond mines in the world?"

well, I know this isn't a solid reference or anything, but my brother in law used to be a diamond retailer, and he said everything came from debeers unless it is illegally traded on the black market.

I also saw some shit on 20/20 where they went to the debeers headquarters which is underneath some european city, and there is supposedly enough diamonds sitting in their vaults that if they circulated all of them, the value of diamonds would go through the floor.

there was also a special on PBS about the african black market for diamonds and it showed young africans risking their lives in dangerous mines and underwater digging where a high % of them drowned. it also showed gang warfare over territrory and business transactions involving diamonds...

and all so some american bitch can feel special on her wedding day..


--------------------
'You can go to a hospital
Get yourself cleaned out.'


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: silversoul7]
    #1755876 - 07/28/03 01:13 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Good for you. I'm pointing out to you that the quotes were then not only un-necessary, but disingenuous.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1755897 - 07/28/03 01:16 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I'd also like to point out that some of the terror tactics used by the rebel groups mentioned in that link are somewhat similar to slavery.

This flash movie might explain it better.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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