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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: shakta]
    #1745680 - 07/24/03 08:44 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
I take that back. You are correct. Clinton wanted to, but he didn't do anything unfortunately.



The problem with Clinton was that he only did things if it benefited Clinton.

Since welfare reform wouldn't, he didn't.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineshakta
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1745814 - 07/24/03 09:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

He sure was a good talker though.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1746495 - 07/25/03 01:45 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

No shit? i was using the quote function, but it doesn't surprise me you thought i was quoting you.

It's the kind of thing you'd do isn't it tho  :smirk:

Perhaps you'd be better using the Bold option on things I havn't said. 


--------------------
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OfflineDeepDish
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1747496 - 07/25/03 10:38 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Amendment XVI

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Amendment XVI seems to give congress the power to collect and spend income tax money as they see fit. Since welfare programs have been around for many years and have yet to be struck down by the supreme court, I would say that lends support to the argument that they do follow the constitution. But it never hurts to be proactive, so if you really feel the 10th amendment bars these kinds of social programs, take it to court; it could be the next Roe vs. Wade or Brown vs. Board of Education. I personally think the judge will laugh at you the same way he would a "lefty" who tries to argue that the second ammendment doensn't allow citizens the right to bear arms.




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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: DeepDish]
    #1747505 - 07/25/03 10:41 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Funny, I don't see "spend on anything they wish" in that amendment.

It is specifically to "lay and collect".
Or did I miss a sentence?

And until the 10th is changed or repealed, it's still in force.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Anonymous

Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: Xlea321]
    #1747831 - 07/25/03 01:20 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

it is admirable to want to help people. generocity and compassion are both virtues. i respect anyone who cares about those less fortunate than them and wants to help them with every tool at their disposal. people step over the line however when they use the power of the officials they elect to take from some and give it to others. this is stealing, and stealing is wrong.


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: ]
    #1747865 - 07/25/03 01:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

"people step over the line however when they use the power of the officials they elect to take from some and give it to others. this is stealing, and stealing is wrong. "

you know what else is wrong? Back when I was in undergrad, I used to work at starbucks. Do you know how many people pulled up in lexuses and mercedes, paid with hundred dollar bills, and left NO TIP!?!?

now THAT'S wrong, man.


--------------------
'You can go to a hospital
Get yourself cleaned out.'


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1747904 - 07/25/03 01:41 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Hey they're paying enough for the stinking starbucks coffee!!!!...its coffee for fucks sake.


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1747927 - 07/25/03 01:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
"people step over the line however when they use the power of the officials they elect to take from some and give it to others. this is stealing, and stealing is wrong. "

you know what else is wrong?  Back when I was in undergrad, I used to work at starbucks.  Do you know how many people pulled up in lexuses and mercedes, paid with hundred dollar bills, and left NO TIP!?!?

now THAT'S wrong, man.
 


Ummm, maybe your service sucked?    :wink:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1747931 - 07/25/03 01:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Still luvs, you could have afforded to leave a tip! :wink:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1747950 - 07/25/03 01:53 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

"Ummm, maybe your service sucked?"

not unless I don't get a tip. I remember who tips and who doesn't. I have also bartended and waited tables and found that the rich are notoriously bad tippers. the best are actually low-upper middle class.

me, I'm broke as fuck and I tip the guy who carries my groceries to the car!

anyway, its stupid not to tip a guy who is in total control of what goes into your drink.


--------------------
'You can go to a hospital
Get yourself cleaned out.'


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1747959 - 07/25/03 01:55 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Well, how do you think the rich became rich? By being cheap, of course! Either that or they inherited their rich daddy's fortune.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1747963 - 07/25/03 01:56 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anyway, its stupid not to tip a guy who is in total control of what goes into your drink.



Or food.

Wise words. I live by them.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: silversoul7]
    #1747976 - 07/25/03 02:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

"Well, how do you think the rich became rich? By being cheap, of course! "

true true. I rememer Elie Wesiel wrote a book about the holocaust and he said that "only the worst jews made it out of the concentration camps alive", meaning that the people who survived were capos and informants and nazi ass-kissers.

i feel the same way about the rich. in a dog eat dog world, only the biggest asshole makes it to the top.


--------------------
'You can go to a hospital
Get yourself cleaned out.'


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1748002 - 07/25/03 02:05 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

You have to suck, if money is how you determine your success, and worth.


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1748009 - 07/25/03 02:06 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

in a dog eat dog world, only the biggest asshole makes it to the top.



I'm sure many feel that way about those who stay at the bottom, or at least those who don't aspire to better their lot in life.

Besides, line up the poor who wish to be rich, and a seperate line of those who are rich but wish to be poor.

Which is longer?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1748059 - 07/25/03 02:18 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Besides, line up the poor who wish to be rich, and a seperate line of those who are rich but wish to be poor.



And of the poor who wish to be rich, see how low each of them is willing to go to get there. The ones who would stoop the lowest are the ones most likely to succeed in becoming rich.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: silversoul7]
    #1748078 - 07/25/03 02:23 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Pretty sad generalization.

Sounds like you need to get laid.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1748166 - 07/25/03 02:43 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

That might be what you do luvs, but we all know using your hand..no matter how much you practice....doesn't count! :wink:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineCornholio
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Re: A few "welfare" myths [Re: DeepDish]
    #1748655 - 07/25/03 05:14 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DeepDish said:
Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Amendment XVI

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Amendment XVI seems to give congress the power to collect and spend income tax money as they see fit. Since welfare programs have been around for many years and have yet to be struck down by the supreme court, I would say that lends support to the argument that they do follow the constitution. But it never hurts to be proactive, so if you really feel the 10th amendment bars these kinds of social programs, take it to court; it could be the next Roe vs. Wade or Brown vs. Board of Education. I personally think the judge will laugh at you the same way he would a "lefty" who tries to argue that the second ammendment doensn't allow citizens the right to bear arms.



Excellent point. Also Article 1, Section 8, Clause 1, of the US Constitution states "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States". We've had this debate before, and luvie feels that only conservatives are entitled to interpret what "general welfare" means.


--------------------


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