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OfflineRonoS
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U.S. doctors call for Canadian-style health insurance
    #1809469 - 08/13/03 03:12 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

WASHINGTON - A group of 8,000 American doctors has called for a national health insurance system, saying heath care in the U.S. is collapsing.

'How many patients have to die from lack of health insurance?'
In a paper published on Wednesday in the Journal of the American Medical Association, the physicians say the solution is to create a health insurance program administered by the government.

The doctors are going up against two of the most powerful lobbies in the U.S.: the insurance and the pharmaceutical industries.

One in seven Americans ? 41 million people ? have no health insurance, which Dr. Steffie Woolhandler of Harvard Medical School says is a disaster.

"How bad does it have to get?," Woolhandler asked. "How many patients have to die from lack of health insurance? How many seniors have to choose between medicine and food before our legislators enact national health insurance?"

Woolhandler is a member of Physicians for a National Health Program, which calls for the U.S. to abandon a "mangled" and "collapsing" health care system based on private insurance.

The group says only a government-run insurance plan can guarantee complete medical care and prescription drugs for every American.

The group's plan calls for new taxes, but would end insurance premiums that cost many families more than $10,000 a year.

Dr. Marcia Angell says the U.S. would avoid Canada's problems, such as long waits for medical services, by keeping its funding at its current level, nearly twice as much as Canada per person.

"If (Canadians) were to put the same amount of money as we do into their systems, there would be no waits," said Angell.

"For them, the problem is not the system; it's the money. For us, it's not the money; it's the system," she said.

The insurance and the prescription drug industries helped defeat a less ambitious proposal in the early days of the administration of former U.S. president Bill Clinton.

The authors of the paper, who represent a minority of American doctors, say they know they're going up against powerful lobbies, but they say there's no alternative.

SOURCE


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,723
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: U.S. doctors call for Canadian-style health insurance [Re: Rono]
    #1809495 - 08/13/03 03:17 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Just goes to show even doctors can say really stupid things.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: U.S. doctors call for Canadian-style health insurance [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1809522 - 08/13/03 03:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I think it makes perfect sense...it clearly point out the flaws with Canadian Healthcare and a solution to make it suitable for the U.S.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: U.S. doctors call for Canadian-style health insurance [Re: Rono]
    #1809548 - 08/13/03 03:31 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You seem to be assuming the government wouldn't fuck this up as bad as everything else they do.

Besides it's not the job of the feds to hold everyones hand.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: U.S. doctors call for Canadian-style health insurance [Re: Rono]
    #1809559 - 08/13/03 03:33 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

It's funny, government fucks up health care in this country by instituting all sorts of regulations and programs and then some people think we should give the government more power over the system so it can be 'fixed.' It's like someone breaking your leg with a sledge hammer and then handing you a pair of crutches and you're naive enough to think that they're helping you.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: U.S. doctors call for Canadian-style health insurance [Re: Autonomous]
    #1809571 - 08/13/03 03:37 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The government could fuck up a handful of dirt.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: U.S. doctors call for Canadian-style health insurance [Re: Autonomous]
    #1809613 - 08/13/03 03:47 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

well think about the +'s. No longer would we have insurance companies fucking us in the ass, the care would be widespread and thorough. and this just might give us more leverage on legalizing drugs! heh... maybe thats just a dream... anyway. It will allow our government to look towards more of a peoples goverment than, a corporate owned and government controlled institution. I dont know... I think its a good idea, it works well for england, and for canada.


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What?


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: U.S. doctors call for Canadian-style health insurance [Re: Rono]
    #1809629 - 08/13/03 03:52 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rono said:
WASHINGTON - A group of 8,000 American doctors has called for a national health insurance system, saying heath care in the U.S. is collapsing.




And they want it to be more like ours?!...i'd rather pay for decent service than the shit they pass of as health care now....


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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: U.S. doctors call for Canadian-style health insurance [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1809640 - 08/13/03 03:54 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Doctors here are underpaid, overworked and care little for tha patients they see.  In fact a doctor misdiagnosed my g/f dad with diabetes when it was work stress, gave him pills to take, and now his body is incapable of producing the right bloodsugar level and he actually has diabetes now....FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE.  I thnk the doctors also get paid to perscribe certain brand names, not the best product. :mad:


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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
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Re: U.S. doctors call for Canadian-style health insurance [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1809660 - 08/13/03 03:59 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

How many government programs have come in on or under budget and have lived up to all their promises? To quote P.J. O'Rourke, "If you think health care's expensive now, just wait till the government pays for it."

Not to mention, the government record keeping of all your health history, every discussion you've ever had with a doctor that he/she decided to make notes on. Ever smoked marijuana? How many drinks per week do you consume? Ever experimented with LSD? What about your psychiatric history, ever expressed anger with 'The System,' or fear of the government? What kind of meds are you on or have you been on for mental health issues? How would you feel if John Ashcroft had unlimited access to this information?


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Invisiblehoushroom
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Registered: 05/07/03
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Re: U.S. doctors call for Canadian-style health insurance [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1809678 - 08/13/03 04:02 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

that would suck bad. think about how many "it's not my fault" americans there are that would tax the shit out of the healthcare system with bullshit lawsuits. fuck that, i'll buy my own thank you very much.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: U.S. doctors call for Canadian-style health insurance [Re: Autonomous]
    #1809679 - 08/13/03 04:03 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Much better, then i'd be safe! :smile2:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: U.S. doctors call for Canadian-style health insurance [Re: Autonomous]
    #1809698 - 08/13/03 04:07 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Why would the government require access to medical records?...they certainly don't have it in Canada unless by a court order.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: U.S. doctors call for Canadian-style health insurance [Re: Rono]
    #1809730 - 08/13/03 04:17 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You have a lot to learn about how the U.S. government operates my friend. There are always strings attached. The simplest excuse would be the need for oversight to make sure the taxpayers aren't being overcharged and erroneous claims are not being filed. If you think the government wouldn't have people snooping through these records...
I have just accidently discoverd 900 FBI files on my coffee table that were misplaced, would you like them back?


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Offlinepattern
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Registered: 07/19/02
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Re: U.S. doctors call for Canadian-style health insurance [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1810455 - 08/13/03 06:57 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

> Doctors here are underpaid

Are you sure? Or do you mean compared to American doctors? I havent met a doctor who cant afford a house, a couple cars, big TV, etc.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: U.S. doctors call for Canadian-style health insurance [Re: pattern]
    #1810468 - 08/13/03 06:59 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Oh they're well off, but yeah, they compare thier salaries to what they would make in the states...and promptly go there leaving the leftovers here, to practition in bitter spitefull misery...i wouldn't trust a doctor here as far as i could spit!


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
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Re: U.S. doctors call for Canadian-style health insurance [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1810499 - 08/13/03 07:04 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rono said:
'How many patients have to die from lack of health insurance?'
'One in seven Americans ? 41 million people ? have no health insurance'


luvdemshrooms replied:
You seem to be assuming the government wouldn't fuck this up as bad as everything else they do.

Autonomous replied:
It's funny, government fucks up health care in this country by instituting all sorts of regulations and programs and then some people think we should give the government more power over the system so it can be 'fixed.'

Azmodeus replied:
Doctors here are underpaid, overworked and care little for tha patients they see.




Interesting how not a single rebuttal addressed the problem.

I'm with Rono. Allowing people to die in the richest country on earth because they can't afford medical care is definitely a problem that needs to be fixed.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,723
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: U.S. doctors call for Canadian-style health insurance [Re: Cornholio]
    #1810589 - 08/13/03 07:23 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Perhaps because it's not much of a problem. Hospitals here rarely turn anyone away. why do you think California's, and other states with high percentages of illegals are in such piss poor shape.

It's not my problem, nor is it the governments responsibility.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: U.S. doctors call for Canadian-style health insurance [Re: Cornholio]
    #1810635 - 08/13/03 07:36 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The main problem with the health care system here is we spend more money on people in the last few weeks of there life, then we do throughout the rest of their lifetime. Instead of putting someone guaranteed to die on life support, let them fucking die! If I am a 90 year old with a failing heart, don't spend $500,000 trying to keep me alive in pain for a couple of more weeks. Let me fucking die, and go on to whatever awaits me on the other side. I will see you in the next life. If not I will not know any better because I will be dead.


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
Administrator
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Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 6,486
Re: U.S. doctors call for Canadian-style health insurance [Re: shakta]
    #1810669 - 08/13/03 07:43 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I will see you in the next life. If not I will not know any better because I will be dead.





If"the other side" or "a better place" ever gets in my doctors head while he is treating and is a deciding factor for how he treats me I hope he and his family die of cancer.


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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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