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Fight of Flight?
    #1803162 -

This question is mainly directed at liberals, so conservatives please keep any smart-ass comments to yourself. With Bush's popularity riding high, and the continued assault on civil liberties in this country, I am faced with a dilemna: On the one hand, I am considering moving to Canada to escape this hostile political atmosphere, but on the other hand, part of me thinks I should stay and fight for justice rather than run away. What should I do?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Fight of Flight? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1803179 -

Don't you live in California? I thought it was a pretty easygoing lifestyle there. Personally I think you should stay and "fight".


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man = monkey + mushroom

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Re: Fight of Flight? [Re: pattern]
    #1803183 -

Ya, California's pretty liberal, but even we can't escape the wrath of the Patriot ACT, RAVE Act, Operation Pipe Dreams, etc.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Fight of Flight? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1803194 -

True, you guys have some lame laws. I'd recommend making lots of money, and waiting until you get charged with some heavy jail time and then flee to Canada.

If you do move to Canada, move to Ontario (weed is legal) or BC (weed is virtually legal). In Alberta people smoke weed fairly openly, but the cops are still really eager to catch you.


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man = monkey + mushroom

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Re: Fight of Flight? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1803214 -

Silversoul... Im also in Cali and in a way I think it makes the thought of fight or flight even worse. Im in a state that is supposedly so liberal.. but Im near Sac, the biggest black hole of culture that exists outside of So Cal. It's not time to fight yet and there is no immediate need for flight. Besides, although Canada supposedly will not throw you out when seeking political asylum, they wont give you visas and the like either which would make it pretty damn hard to live. Have you taken the Canadian assesment test yet to see if you even qualify for a visa? The process takes atleast a year so maybe you could start that in the mean time so that when you have to make the choice.. you have options.

As for me, Im fighting because when it all comes down, I dont know if it is going to matter much where you are in the world... but where you are in spirituality.


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Re: Fight of Flight? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1803226 -

That's quite a question.  One that I've been fiercely debating myself over for a while now, but never more so than in the last month or so.

On one hand, I am scared, disgusted, disillusioned, and disheartened.  I don't see a solution to the hole that our current administration is digging for us.  Globalization, corporatization, and the ever expanding rights of big business at the cost of jobs and freedoms and security of the poeple is, to me, a train barreling down the track with noone at the wheel.  I hate the apathetic.  I hate those who defend policies of greed and destruction with "facts" and figures about how the top 10% is no longer feeling the effects of the recession and how this will trickle down to the rest of us.  (Those who believe that Trickle-down economics, otherwise known as "Reaganomics", or "Voodoo Economics" work for anyone other than that vaunted 10% isn't paying enough attention.) I hate the greed.  I hate the fact that I can't find a job, despite having multiple undergraduate degrees, being exceptionally intelligent, being an effective communicator, and being willing to work for any company who is willing to treat me with the respect I deserve.  I hate it when people say that there isn't really a recession.

I hate Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, Larry Elder, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Chris Matthews, and that little bowtie wearing son of a bitch on CNN.  I hate Tom DeLay.  I really hate Tom DeLay.

I fucking hate GW Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Condaleeza Rice, Paul Wolfowitz, and the rest of that goddamn PNAC group.

But..

I love my country.

Seriously.  I love it more than anything in the world.  Despite the fact that I have to drive 4 and a half hours to go somewhere where I can't hear highway traffic; where I can see the stars without the blinding light of the closest big city.  Even though I can't even take a piss at my local PJ McPickleshitters without having to stare at advertisements for the newest hemmarhoid creme, or feel bad because my abs don't look like that cocaine addict Calvin Klein model's abs...  I still love her.

And I want to do good things by her.  So what does that mean?  I'm working on that.  Do I become more politically active?  Do I found a Green Party initiative in Washington County, PA?  Do I Jam every McDonalds, Nike Store, and Pepsi machine within 600 miles of here?  Do I sponsor and promote Critical Mass rides?  Maybe I devote my time and energy to finding out the dirty little secrets about corrupt corporations and attempt to educate the incredibly apathetic public about them?  Maybe I go get a doctorate in organic chemistry and develop a chemical that makes people see only the truth in their lives when ingested and dump it into every reservior in the country?

That's really the question, isn't it?  HOW do we take it back?  What is our freedom worth to us?  What does "America" mean, and how much energy and effort does she warrant on our part in the pursuit of that ideal?

I was really about to ask a very similar question, in a very similar way.  I am REALLY looking forward to what other people have to say with this one...  Thanks, SS7 :smile:

Quote:
This question is mainly directed at liberals, so conservatives please keep any smart-ass comments to yourself.


And of course you realize that that comment all but guarantees that they'll be coming out of the woodwork, dontcha?  =D

But, even with all that said... I'm still learning Spanish at the moment.  I can envision a day (in the not too distant future) when this country becomes uninhabitable for the likes of us...


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There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn

Edited by GernBlanston (08/11/03 10:02 PM)

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Re: Fight of Flight? [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #1803230 -

You should definately come here.. Toronto is a really cool city to live.. Cheaper rent than in BC and there's still lots of pot and smoking cafe's and such.. It's a good time to be living here..

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Re: Fight of Flight? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1803238 -

Just do whichever you think will make you the happiest.

Everything else is secondary.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Fight of Flight? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1803261 -

:mad2: Hey! You can't tell him what to do! :mad2:


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https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

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Re: Fight of Flight? [Re: GernBlanston]
    #1803912 -

Quote:
GernBlanston said:
I hate the apathetic.... I hate...  I hate the fact that I can't find a job, despite having multiple undergraduate degrees, being exceptionally intelligent, being an effective communicator, and being willing to work for any company who is willing to treat me with the respect I deserve...

I hate Sean... and that little bowtie wearing son of a bitch on CNN. I hate Tom... I really hate Tom... I fucking hate GW... and the rest of that goddamn...



Wow, you're rather impressed with yourself and contemptuous of others.  If potential employers were to see this they might mistake you for a "pompous, self-important ass" and they probably wouldn't want to hire you. Hey, maybe that's it! :wink:


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain

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Re: Fight of Flight? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1803983 -

My dream is to move to the Netherlands someday. It's the freest country in the world. You can smoke the world's strongest weed at their "coffee" shops, choose from about ten different varieties of magic mushrooms at their "smart" shops, rent a hooker after viewing her practically nude in the windows of the red light district, watch a live sex show, download any material you want from the internet, and generally not worry about any penalties for victimless crimes.

It's the #1 country in the world for public education (too late for me, but if I have kids that's a good thing). It's the friendliest country I've ever visited, it has the best freeways and public transportation I've used, it shows porn after midnight on regular tv. Jeeze, I could go on and on. The only thing it doesn't have that I would miss is mountains. It's also one of the most architecturally beautiful places I've ever seen, from the old architecture along the canals of Amsterdam:







to the cutting edge architecture in Rotterdam:







The US just doesn't have enough freedom for me. When I was in an Amsterdam Hotel, it was great lighting up a bowl and not worrying about someone outside smelling it and turning me in. I hate visiting internet websites here in the US where I have to wonder if the Government is tracking me and putting me on one of their infamous lists (can they somehow determine who visits the Shroomery???), etc.

The only problem I have with leaving is that the US has some momentum building towards a Pax America (New World Order). If that momentum doesn't stop, before you know it the Netherlands and the rest of the world will be a slave to US Christian values, and I think I'm better off fighting that battle here at home, where I can at least vote against international terrorists like Bush, rather than being in the Netherlands where I can't really do anything to stop that kind of thing.


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Re: Fight of Flight? [Re: Cornholio]
    #1804024 -

I understand that the Netherlands is one of the most bicycle friendly nations on Earth, as well. I think pro-bike initiatives are among the best policies around, on many levels. I gotta visit there someday...


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There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn

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Re: Fight of Flight? [Re: Autonomous]
    #1804039 -

Autonomous said:
Wow, you're rather impressed with yourself and contemptuous of others.


True enough.  But just the assholes, really.  I'm not proud.

Quote:
If potential employers were to see this they might mistake you for a "pompous, self-important ass" and they probably wouldn't want to hire you. Hey, maybe that's it! :wink:


And I'm fairly sure that I've been turned down at least once for that very reason.  But as the old saying goes, "I don't wanna work for anyone that doesn't want me to work for them..." - or something like that. 


--------------------
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn

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Re: Fight of Flight? [Re: Bhairabas]
    #1804044 -

Bhairabas said:
You should definately come here.. Toronto is a really cool city to live.. Cheaper rent than in BC and there's still lots of pot and smoking cafe's and such.. It's a good time to be living here..


And I would prolly love living in Toronto. But I really really really hate the cold and snow. Pittsburgh is bad enough, I say.


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There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn

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Re: Fight of Flight? [Re: GernBlanston]
    #1804110 -

The bicycle friendliness is unreal.  Everyone rides a "granny" bike (which you can see in my first picture above) with a ringer on the handle bars that we wouldn't be caught dead on here (bike theft is a problem for nicer bikes).  EVERYONE rides their granny bikes, including businessmen in suits, old ladies in their sunday dresses, and gangsters with a bunch of tatoos.  It's kind of hilarious to see a "tough guy" riding a granny bike.  :grin:  There are places to lock your bike everywhere and virtually every single road has a bike lane.

I heard the Government once bought enough bikes for the entire city of Amsterdam to ride, so that citizens and tourists alike could just grab a bike from anywhere and go.  Unfortunately, foreigners smuggled them all out of the country (since they weren't locked up), and the program failed. 


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Re: Fight of Flight? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1804864 -

You should "Eat some mushrooms, you blind fool!"
  :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2:   


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There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million

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Re: Fight of Flight? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1805096 -

I'd move if i were you.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Fight of Flight? [Re: GernBlanston]
    #1805111 -

Quote:
I hate the fact that I can't find a job, despite having multiple undergraduate degrees, being exceptionally intelligent, being an effective communicator, and being willing to work for any company who is willing to treat me with the respect I deserve...



maybe the problem isn't the employers but just you (i could be wrong). I have a lot of education as well, the only difference is that i can find a job. hmmph

BTW the self rightous thing is probably holding you back. You may think you're worth a million but others may disagree.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Fight of Flight? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1805135 -

Perhaps pompous would be a better term?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Fight of Flight? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1805170 -

Although I do take the high road (of what is admittedly my own making) while here on the boards, I think y'all might be assuming quite a bit if you think I walk into interviews (in the rare instances I can GET interviews) proclaiming my greatness and the simultaneous idocy of the masses. I am, despite possible views to the contrary, an actual person.

I get my feathers riled up here on the boards, because we are speaking of concepts that mean a great deal to me.

That doesn't mean I'm a pompous ass when I hit the local Barnes and Noble to beg for a job stocking book shelves.

But hey - really... thanks for the honest and completely objective analysis of my personal shortcomings. It's good to know that y'all care.


--------------------
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn

Edited by GernBlanston (08/12/03 12:36 PM)

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General Interest > Political Discussion
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