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Black truffles and morels - worth the money?
    #9469280 -

I managed to have my first taste of the highly prized black truffles imported from France a few days ago.  It had a really strong smell but not much taste to it.  I shaved some onto scrambled eggs.  I also tried nibbling it raw as well as cooking it.

It seems like truffles are only good if you are after the smell (very strong smell) as the taste is sooooo subtle - somewhat nutty flavour and texture.  I spent $60 on a nugget about 3cm across.  I won't be spending on truffles again.  But it was a good experience.  At least now I know what truffles are like.  I think next time I'd rather spend $60 on a lobster instead.  If truffles are famous only for it's smell, wouldn't it be way better making synthetic smells and flavours similar to truffles instead of having the real thing?  It'd be way easier and cheaper.

Same thing goes for morels.  I had cooked some fresh morels a few years ago.  The flavour was also very very subtle.  I wouldn't be spending on morels also.  Might try cultivating it for fun, but seriously I wouldn't pay a lot of money to eat them.

Anyone feels the same way?

Cheers,
cutemushie


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HAVE: Paneolus cyanescence, Paneolus cambodgiensis, Psilocybe cubensis, Flammulina velutipe (white, and brown Korean strain), Hericium erinaceous, Coprinus atramentarius, Coprinus comatus, Agrocybe aegerita, Pleurotus eryngii, Psilocybe subaeruginosa, Ganoderma lucidum, Pleurotus nebrodensis, Lepista nuda, Agaricus augustus, Pleurotus cystidiosus, Volvariella speciosa.

LOOKING FOR: Those that I don't have.

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Re: Black truffles and morels - worth the money? [Re: cutemushie]
    #9469376 -

morels intensify in flavor when dried. and preparation is key on fresh ones...too much liquid involved can dull the flavor.


truffles can be stored with fresh eggs covered tightly in a bowl...the eggs after a few days gain truffle essence,
likewise a compund butter made with truffles and stored for a week gets a very deep truffle flavor.

theyre good...but not for everyone.
i like white truffle oil...it runs 22-25 dollars a bottle and a little goes a long way.


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:greys:

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Re: Black truffles and morels - worth the money? [Re: greys]
    #9469398 -

If you'd rather spend $60 on a lobster then a truffle, then perhaps you might want to look into Lions Mane. It tastes somewhat like lobster meat when fried with butter and garlic. I absolutely love it, and its not hard to grow.

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Re: Black truffles and morels - worth the money? [Re: greys]
    #9470463 -

greysRDbest said:
morels intensify in flavor when dried. and preparation is key on fresh ones...too much liquid involved can dull the flavor.


truffles can be stored with fresh eggs covered tightly in a bowl...the eggs after a few days gain truffle essence,
likewise a compund butter made with truffles and stored for a week gets a very deep truffle flavor.

theyre good...but not for everyone.
i like white truffle oil...it runs 22-25 dollars a bottle and a little goes a long way.



Oh.  With morels, I wonder if it is like shitake mushrooms.  I never eat fresh shitake.  I only eat the dried ones.  I smelled truffle oil a few years ago and thought the smell was so so.  I thought the taste would be different if you know what I mean.  That's why I went to get the real truffle.  Turns out they are the same.  I think it is more correct to say "get a deep truffle smell" rather than "get a deep truffle flavour"  Like I said, they should do something similar to artificial vanilla essence with truffles. 

Lion mane can't compare with the real lobster.  The texture etc all different I would think.  I'm growing lion mane but it has not fruited yet.

Cheers,
cutemushie


--------------------
HAVE: Paneolus cyanescence, Paneolus cambodgiensis, Psilocybe cubensis, Flammulina velutipe (white, and brown Korean strain), Hericium erinaceous, Coprinus atramentarius, Coprinus comatus, Agrocybe aegerita, Pleurotus eryngii, Psilocybe subaeruginosa, Ganoderma lucidum, Pleurotus nebrodensis, Lepista nuda, Agaricus augustus, Pleurotus cystidiosus, Volvariella speciosa.

LOOKING FOR: Those that I don't have.

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Re: Black truffles and morels - worth the money? [Re: cutemushie]
    #9471431 -

I think the key to getting a good, intense mushroomy flavor involves two key steps:

1. Put your mushrooms in a dry pan over medium-low heat with a pinch of salt, and keep them moving in the pan until they release their water.  Let some of that simmer off.
2. Add just enough butter (clarified butter if you've got it) or olive oil to keep the mushrooms from sticking, and brown them well.  You want a nice golden brown color on them.  Don't use too much butter, as it can overpower subtle mushroom flavors.

Once you've done this, they're ready for your omelet or a delicious topping for a steak.  Reducing the water content intensifies flavor, and the browning process both caramelizes the sugars and creates new flavor compounds as the proteins break down.

Oh yeah, don't inhale the fumes when cooking fresh morels.  The vapor is toxic.


--------------------
"We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time."

- T. S. Eliot

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Re: Black truffles and morels - worth the money? [Re: cutemushie]
    #9471686 -

i buy only white truffle oil.

too often black truffle oil is made with chinese truffles...which to be honest are horrible in every way imaginable.

spencers is an OK brand...not the best but easy to find.

if you find good quality real truffles they will have intense mushroom FLAVOR as well as smell. i almost wonder if you got ahold of chinese truffles and not european ones.


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:greys:

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Re: Black truffles and morels - worth the money? [Re: Paresthesia]
    #9471994 -

Paresthesia said:
I think the key to getting a good, intense mushroomy flavor involves two key steps:

1. Put your mushrooms in a dry pan over medium-low heat with a pinch of salt, and keep them moving in the pan until they release their water.  Let some of that simmer off.
2. Add just enough butter (clarified butter if you've got it) or olive oil to keep the mushrooms from sticking, and brown them well.  You want a nice golden brown color on them.  Don't use too much butter, as it can overpower subtle mushroom flavors.

Once you've done this, they're ready for your omelet or a delicious topping for a steak.  Reducing the water content intensifies flavor, and the browning process both caramelizes the sugars and creates new flavor compounds as the proteins break down.

Oh yeah, don't inhale the fumes when cooking fresh morels.  The vapor is toxic.



Yes, that's more or less the way I cook mushrooms too. :smile:  I put butter or oil first though to stop the mushrooms from sticking to the pan.  But I didn't know that morel vapour is toxic.


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HAVE: Paneolus cyanescence, Paneolus cambodgiensis, Psilocybe cubensis, Flammulina velutipe (white, and brown Korean strain), Hericium erinaceous, Coprinus atramentarius, Coprinus comatus, Agrocybe aegerita, Pleurotus eryngii, Psilocybe subaeruginosa, Ganoderma lucidum, Pleurotus nebrodensis, Lepista nuda, Agaricus augustus, Pleurotus cystidiosus, Volvariella speciosa.

LOOKING FOR: Those that I don't have.

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Re: Black truffles and morels - worth the money? [Re: greys]
    #9472009 -

greysRDbest said:
i buy only white truffle oil.

too often black truffle oil is made with chinese truffles...which to be honest are horrible in every way imaginable.

spencers is an OK brand...not the best but easy to find.

if you find good quality real truffles they will have intense mushroom FLAVOR as well as smell. i almost wonder if you got ahold of chinese truffles and not european ones.



I have never tasted white truffle.  Not sure if the oil I smelled was black or white truffle.  I don't think it was chinese black truffle as the guy told me he imported them in from France.  It does look like the normal black truffles you see in books and pics.


--------------------
HAVE: Paneolus cyanescence, Paneolus cambodgiensis, Psilocybe cubensis, Flammulina velutipe (white, and brown Korean strain), Hericium erinaceous, Coprinus atramentarius, Coprinus comatus, Agrocybe aegerita, Pleurotus eryngii, Psilocybe subaeruginosa, Ganoderma lucidum, Pleurotus nebrodensis, Lepista nuda, Agaricus augustus, Pleurotus cystidiosus, Volvariella speciosa.

LOOKING FOR: Those that I don't have.

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Re: Black truffles and morels - worth the money? [Re: cutemushie]
    #9472889 -

Quote:
cutemushie said:Yes, that's more or less the way I cook mushrooms too. :smile:  I put butter or oil first though to stop the mushrooms from sticking to the pan.  But I didn't know that morel vapour is toxic.



I forgot to mention kicking the temperature up after the initial sweat.  The reason for the dry pan is that you want to get the water out before adding the fat.  (You have to keep moving the mushrooms around in the pan so they don't stick.)  Water will never get hotter than the boiling point, and browning requires much higher temperatures.  If you add the butter first, by the time the mushrooms give up liquid and start to brown, the casing in the butter starts to burn.  This can be avoided by using a light oil, or clarified butter.


--------------------
"We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time."

- T. S. Eliot

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Re: Black truffles and morels - worth the money? [Re: Paresthesia]
    #9473607 -

Paresthesia said:
Oh yeah, don't inhale the fumes when cooking fresh morels.  The vapor is toxic.



LOL, that's with False Morels ( Gyromitra ) not True Morels!

True Morels don't have the monomethylhydrazine that Gyromitra has.

And if they did it would be in amounts that are so microscopic. The same amounts that Agaricus bisporus has.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: Black truffles and morels - worth the money? [Re: AcidHorse]
    #9473683 -

Alright then!  I will inhale!  Maybe.  Probably not. :grin:


--------------------
"We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time."

- T. S. Eliot

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Re: Black truffles and morels - worth the money? [Re: Paresthesia]
    #9475745 -

Oh you actually add salt to draw out the water first and then brown the mushroom by adding oil/butter?  Wouldn't the mushrooms be on the dry side then?  I find it hard to get the inside of the mushrooms to cook, so I add oil first and lightly stir fry the mushrooms, then I add water so it soaks into the mushrooms to cook it and then let the water dry before adding salt.  I might give it a go - adding salt first to draw out the water so the mushrooms cook in it's own water.


--------------------
HAVE: Paneolus cyanescence, Paneolus cambodgiensis, Psilocybe cubensis, Flammulina velutipe (white, and brown Korean strain), Hericium erinaceous, Coprinus atramentarius, Coprinus comatus, Agrocybe aegerita, Pleurotus eryngii, Psilocybe subaeruginosa, Ganoderma lucidum, Pleurotus nebrodensis, Lepista nuda, Agaricus augustus, Pleurotus cystidiosus, Volvariella speciosa.

LOOKING FOR: Those that I don't have.

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Re: Black truffles and morels - worth the money? [Re: cutemushie]
    #9475787 -

Hi AcidHorse,

I read many of your posts before on morels.  They were good posts. You seem to be an expert in morels. Been waiting for months trying to get hold of some morels from the shop, but I was so busy and was two weeks late, so now I totally missed the season.  Will have to wait another year before I could get some morels to clone and play with.


--------------------
HAVE: Paneolus cyanescence, Paneolus cambodgiensis, Psilocybe cubensis, Flammulina velutipe (white, and brown Korean strain), Hericium erinaceous, Coprinus atramentarius, Coprinus comatus, Agrocybe aegerita, Pleurotus eryngii, Psilocybe subaeruginosa, Ganoderma lucidum, Pleurotus nebrodensis, Lepista nuda, Agaricus augustus, Pleurotus cystidiosus, Volvariella speciosa.

LOOKING FOR: Those that I don't have.

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Re: Black truffles and morels - worth the money? [Re: cutemushie]
    #9477637 -

Quote:
Mycorrhizae—Morels were originally thought to be saprobic (decomposing dead organic matter) because tested cultures grow rapidly in pure culture on simple nutrients such as starches, sugars, and nitrates (Robbins and Hervey 1959) and can be induced to fruit without association with plant hosts. Mycorrhizal fungi, by contrast, grow more slowly in pure culture and do not fruit without forming a symbiosis with their host plants.
Moser (1949) suggested that some morels might have the ability to form mycorrhizal symbioses with trees or at least to form mycorrhiza-like structures. Assuming that this relationship is optional for morels that also have saprobic abilities, this form of symbiosis has been called a “facultatively mycorrhizal” nutritional strategy.



Quote:
Not only is it inappropriate to assume that both partners benefit equally, but the observable structure of a mycorrhiza does not necessarily correspond to its functions. We note these caveats because most tested morels have the saprobic abilities noted above, morel mycorrhizae sometimes exhibit weakly developed structural features,16 few studies have examined benefits to the trees, and some morels form a different type of association with the larger roots of some plants (see the following section on muffs).
Buscot and Kottke (1990) and Buscot (1992a, 1992c) described ectomycorrhizae17 on Norway spruce associated with M. rotunda, M. esculenta, and M. elata. Subsequently, Buscot (1994) described seven types of morel mycorrhizae with
Norway spruce. In these descriptions, Buscot noted that M. esculenta mycorrhizae featured minimal development of a Hartig net18 and suggested that other bacteria and fungi might be involved in facilitating the symbiosis (Buscot 1992c). With M. elata, Buscot (1992a) reported that morel mycorrhizae only formed as a “secondary” mycorrhizae after replacing previous mycorrhizae formed by other fungi. Harbin and Volk (1999) reported that M. esculenta and M. elata were facultatively mycorrhizal with apples, elms, and black spruces. They reported formation of typical ectomycorrhizae and noted that inoculated seedlings grew more than noninoculated control seedlings. Although apples and elms are not common hosts of ectomycorrhizal fungi, they can be (Molina and others 1992), and morels certainly fruit in proximity to these trees. Dahlstrom and others (2000) reported that mountain blond morels and natural black morels from the Pacific Northwest formed several typical mycorrhizal structures (ecto- and ectendomycorrhizal) with ponderosa pine, Douglas-fir, western larch, and lodgepole pine. To date, we know of no reports of fire morels being tested for their ability to form mycorrhizae.
Hobbie and others (2001) provided additional circumstantial evidence that morels might use both saprobic and mycorrhizal nutritional strategies. They studied isotope ratios in a variety of fungi noting that: “In general mycorrhizal fungi are enriched in 15N and depleted in 13C relative to saprobic fungi.” The Morchella specimens they sampled yielded intermediate values.
A not-yet-tested hypothesis is that morels, by forming mycorrhizae, might also be positioning themselves to rapidly decompose the fine root tips of trees when these roots senesce or the tree dies. Abundant morel fruiting following tree death could be facilitated by such a flush of nutrients (Dahlstrom and others 2000, Pilz and others 2004, Vrålstad and others 1998).




--------------------
If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

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Re: Black truffles and morels - worth the money? [Re: AcidHorse]
    #9478757 -

Funny you should mention that.  I was doing some poking around on The Google and I found some studies that examined the role of actinomycetes in the formation of mycorrhizal associations.  I have some Streptomyces lydicus inoculant that's sold commercially as a treatment for plant fungal diseases.  This bacteria also assists legumes in fixing atmospheric nitrogen.

It might be a fun exercise to place a colonized grain on one side of a dish and some of the S. lydicus granules on the other side.


--------------------
"We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time."

- T. S. Eliot

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Re: Black truffles and morels - worth the money? [Re: cutemushie]
    #9481900 -

cutemushie said:
If truffles are famous only for it's smell, wouldn't it be way better making synthetic smells and flavours similar to truffles instead of having the real thing?  It'd be way easier and cheaper.



I was reading about truffles a couple months ago, and found out they do indeed do this, with synthetic truffle oil/flavoring.  Alot of chefs apparently use it and claim there's not much of a difference, but the high end haute cuisine chefs swear by the real thing.

And like someone else mentioned, are you sure you got the real French ones, and not the Chinese ones like he said?  They're also growing truffles in the USA now too, down south somewhere.

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Re: Black truffles and morels - worth the money? [Re: J3illy]
    #17806604 -

J3illy said:
cutemushie said:
If truffles are famous only for it's smell, wouldn't it be way better making synthetic smells and flavours similar to truffles instead of having the real thing?  It'd be way easier and cheaper.



I was reading about truffles a couple months ago, and found out they do indeed do this, with synthetic truffle oil/flavoring.  Alot of chefs apparently use it and claim there's not much of a difference, but the high end haute cuisine chefs swear by the real thing.

And like someone else mentioned, are you sure you got the real French ones, and not the Chinese ones like he said?  They're also growing truffles in the USA now too, down south somewhere.



yes, we had to (got to) watch a 60 minutes episode on truffles in my forestry class last semester. 

#1- chinese truffles are a problem.  Truffle production has fallen dramatically in the orchards in france and italy.  Thus, people in france and italy can chinese truffles and sell them as french or italian.  this is totally legal, but you could be getting the bunk chinese ones.
#2- the american truffle farm is in the smokey mountains, apparently the climate is similar enough to france/italy that their cultivars work there.  american chefs like them, also.  I'm sure there's more than one person farming them now.  America also has a lot of indigenous truffles from texas up to the pacific northwest.  Duke is doing a phylogeny study on them now, you can google it if interested.


--------------------
Fiery Fungi (like us on faeboo)

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